America’s recognition of Jerusalem

America’s recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel is a radical departure, not just from the international consensus, but also from longstanding U.S. practice. It will spell doom for the ”peace process,” bloodshed for the people, instability for the region. It will embolden the messianic ultra-right and provoke violent extremism. It will reorient Middle Eastern geopolitics as the Israel-Saud alliance ramp up their militancy against Iran and Syria.

At the same time, I’m not terribly concerned about what this recognition means for a future, independent Palestinian state. This new move only confirms what many of us have said for years—that the two-state solution is and has been dead; that any hopes for it were vanished sixteen years ago; that it’s a talking point, an empty platitude used mostly to placate dissent while the fat cats engorge themselves and the colonization of Palestine goes on unimpeded. The White House is absolutely correct that this decision is simply a “recognition of reality.” And the reality is this. There is already a one-state reality, a single state that governs Jerusalem and the entirety of Palestine, and it governs it by a system of spatial segregation and legal subjugation, according to ethno-religious background. (There’s a word for this sort of system, but you’re not allowed to say it in polite company, lest Israel be offended.) The real issue isn’t whether a Palestinian bantustan will get to keep a slice of East Jerusalem. The issue is how much longer the world will tolerate (why not just say it?) apartheid.

And before people make this exclusively about Donald Trump—this is a move with near-unanimous support among both the Republicans and the Democrats. This is a move with broad support among Christian Evangelicals, in their mad wish to fulfill some apocalyptic prophecy and bring on Armageddon. This is a move with implicit support of all those liberal outfits like J Street, who never disagreed with the substance of Israeli colonization, only its presentation.

originally posted by: DarkPalSFO
It will spell doom for the ”peace process,

Why? The peace process has been treading water for years. Perhaps this will kick start a peace process. The people who don't want peace are the people who want Israel to be removed.

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: DarkPalSFO
It will spell doom for the ”peace process,

Why? The peace process has been treading water for years. Perhaps this will kick start a peace process. The people who don't want peace are the people who want Israel to be removed.

Except he didnt, he just made a big show about it, and then renegged, just like every president before him.

(not to derail your thread OP)
Nope he didnt

I had “peace process” in parentheses for a reason. Not only has it been treading water it has been basically non existent. Your not really in the process of peace when your at constat war with your neighbor. This move also is not a step towards peace but I think a step backwards. a reply to: paraphi

a reply to: DarkPalSFO

I cannot help but agree with your analysis, in terms of what the effects will be for those living in the region, and those who stand to benefit from it, but we MUST stop referring to elite Democrat and rich media figures as being liberal.

The people in the streets are capable of liberal thinking, but people who are rich and powerful and wish to stay that way, are not in the main, capable of compassion and decency, because their focus is their own power and wealth, habits which are not in keeping with liberal values. Liberals would harm their own pocket books to improve the lives of the impoverished, would risk their own flesh to protect the oppressed. The support base for this move does not come from people of that ilk, because people of that ilk would never agree to it.

If Israel wants to claim Jerusalem, and the United States wants to let them, then go right ahead, but here are the facts. There are a couple hundred thousand residents of Jerusalem, born and raised there, their families having lived there for centuries. Despite this, they are denied basic citizenship, voting and social rights, and are sequestered into miserable ghettoes that lack basic infrastructure.

Meanwhile, an American Jew, born and raised in Brooklyn, can move to Jerusalem and be granted automatic citizenship, benefits and assistance. Sometimes they can kick out a Palestinian family and move into their home.

For a long time, some of the harsher critics of Israel have said that “Israel is becoming an apartheid state.” That sentence is too long by exactly one word.

It may seem natural to feel utterly despondent in the face of a more intensified and seemingly legitimated oppression of the Palestinian people, in fact it may seem to be the only response one could make when there happens to be present no viable means or mechanisms to overturn this reality of ethnic-religious apartheid. One may feel inclined to hope that the region's geopolitical circumstances alter in some way that would give the Palestinians actual leverage to fight back for their rights. One may feel inclined to believe, in perhaps a cynical and vulgar accelerationist way, that life for the Palestinians must become more intolerable, more deprived, and more brutalized at the hands of an evermore fascistic Israel, before the conscience of the international community is awaken and meaningfully active. Regardless, this is the course already charted by the powers that be, and we living outside the region have no ability to upend it from there.

This may seem like an aside, but for all the criticisms the DSA has received, many of which I would agree with, one thing must be recognized and commended. And that is that the DSA is the only party with the attempt of gaining the national spotlight, which has stated in no uncertain and equivocal terms that it condemns Israeli apartheid, and has called for the full enfranchisement and citizenship rights of the Palestinians living under the state which actually governs them, that of course being Israel. We can pin our false hopes on whatever opportunistic government in the region laments with an overtone of disingenuousness the suffering of the Palestinians, but only by building an international movement of socialism for human emancipation can we deliver justice to Palestine and dispel the barbarisms of national oppression and class exploitation.

a reply to: DarkPalSFO

Wow. You're speaking with a voice that is woefully underrepresented on ATS.

Keep it up, write more threads.

the Most worry something about this Is response to Trump’s Jerusalem declaration has focused too much on the fear of Arab backlash and not enough on why the decision itself is immoral and illegal.

Don’t oppose Trump’s decision because it will spark violence. Oppose his decision because it is illegal and immoral.

originally posted by: SailorJerry

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: DarkPalSFO
It will spell doom for the ”peace process,

Why? The peace process has been treading water for years. Perhaps this will kick start a peace process. The people who don't want peace are the people who want Israel to be removed.

Except he didnt, he just made a big show about it, and then renegged, just like every president before him.

(not to derail your thread OP)
Nope he didnt

Linking to your own thread that is fake news. Stop spreading these lies. You are not intellectually capable of handling this subject. I have proved to you that your thread is misinformation. STOP

It's a good thin Trump has done. It will get him remembered in history for sure.

I am sooo glad he has proven to be such a good friend of America's closet ALLY.

Trump is a strong leader. he actually does do what he says sometimes. Most, as soon as they get elected, are happy to be paid off puppets. There's a bit more going on in Trump's mind than that. He actually has some dignity in office and is forwarding the stance of the West, strengthening us all.



Hahahahaha!


Well done Super Duper President Donald Trump. Your Daddy would be very proud of your strength and courage.

a reply to: Revolution9

Please explain, without referring to the United States or its interests, how this is good for the people living in the region concerned?

It's a good thing Trump has done. It will get him remembered in history for sure.

I am sooo glad he has proven to be such a good friend of America's closest ALLY.

Trump is a strong leader. He actually does do what he says sometimes. Most, as soon as they get elected, are happy to be paid off puppets. There's a bit more going on in Trump's mind than that. He actually has some dignity in office and is forwarding the stance of the West, strengthening us all.



Hahahahaha!


Well done Super Duper President Donald Trump. Your Daddy would be very proud of your strength and courage.

a reply to: Revolution9

So you posted it twice.

Ok... But again, without referring to the irrelevance of the position and appearance of the United States on the world stage, how is this good for all the parties affected by it, in the region concerned?

a reply to: Revolution9


My thoughts on the spectacle of Trump. If there was any hope that some outrageous Tweet or gaffe or lie or even crime of his could bring him down, that hope has long been vanished. But really, nothing he says or does should be surprising, because he acts exactly how every homegrown reactionary acts with their guard down. (Remember that common refrain last year? “We like him, because he says what everyone else is thinking.”) If there’s anything shocking still, it’s only because Obama did a swimming job of cleaning up the face of American empire. Donald Trump, as I said last year, is the object of America’s therapeutic loathing. He exists because the 24-hour news cycle demands it, because outrage at his antics is what passes for political engagement, because his theatrics feed the Democrats’ narcissism of small differences.

a reply to: DarkPalSFO

If Israel wants to claim Jerusalem, and the United States wants to let them, then go right ahead, but here are the facts. There are a couple hundred thousand residents of Jerusalem, born and raised there, their families having lived there for centuries. Despite this, they are denied basic citizenship, voting and social rights, and are sequestered into miserable ghettoes that lack basic infrastructure.

I have news for you. Arabs who are willing to recognize Israel as the state it is, do get to become citizens and have voting rights. The whole problem is that certain "Palestinians" refuse to recognize Israel as a state because it's against their Islamic religion. The Palestinians want Israel to pay for everything while they refuse to recognize them.

originally posted by: DarkPalSFO
If Israel wants to claim Jerusalem, and the United States wants to let them, then go right ahead, but here are the facts. There are a couple hundred thousand residents of Jerusalem, born and raised there, their families having lived there for centuries. Despite this, they are denied basic citizenship, voting and social rights, and are sequestered into miserable ghettoes that lack basic infrastructure.

This is simply not true.

Israel has gratend permanent Israeli residency to the originial inhabitants of East Jersualem. In addition, those residents are free to apply for Israeli citizenship.
Granted, most of them dont but even as residents they can vote in local elections (they cant in national elections since you have to be a citizen to do so, like just about everywhere) and have access to state run social security and health care.

Fun fact, polls conducted in recent years regularly show East Jerusalem Arab residents would prefer to remain under Israeli rule instead of becoming part of an Palestinian state. Who can blame them.

Meanwhile, an American Jew, born and raised in Brooklyn, can move to Jerusalem and be granted automatic citizenship, benefits and assistance. Sometimes they can kick out a Palestinian family and move into their home.

Thats because every Jew who moves to anywhere in Israel will get Israeli citizenship. Israel is a jewish state and all that.
This is nothing special either. Other countries habe similar laws, Germany for example grants automatic citizenship to People of german decent migrating to Germany from former UdSSR countries.
And kicking People out of their home is illegal in Israel too. Unless of course you happen to own the building or something like that.

For a long time, some of the harsher critics of Israel have said that “Israel is becoming an apartheid state.” That sentence is too long by exactly one word.

In reality that sentence can be summed up in one word: BS

Even now, after all these years, I’m still shocked by the brazenness of the Israeli settlement enterprise. Just so we’re clear: with the sole exception of a single country (that is, Israel), the entire international community considers it illegal. This isn’t a “disputed issue”—it’s the official position of the U.N. General Assembly, the U.N. Security Council, the International Court of Justice and just about every other State, including the U.S. Every U.S. president has recognized it as an “obstacle to peace.” Given their unlawful status, it follows that actions taken to advance the settlement project should count as aiding or abetting a war crime, and that opposing the settlements would be a matter of course. And yet Israel keeps on building, with seldom more than a finger-wag. It’s baffling.

It’s even more baffling, because Israeli settlements are at the heart of this controversy regarding Michael Flynn and “Russian collusion.” When Jared Kushner directed Flynn to contact the Russian ambassador, he did so with the aim of pressuring Russia (as well as every other Security Council member State) to oppose a U.N. resolution that condemned Israeli settlements. So if there was any “collusion,” it was with Netanyahu, rather than with Putin, and the intention was to cover for Israeli war crimes. But no Democrat will dare to address this obvious act of complicity and collusion, because covering for Israeli war crimes is a bipartisan affair.

a reply to: mightmight

Its not BS though, is it?

Israeli people are treated differently to Palestinians. Israeli people do not have their land and homes bulldozed to make room for illegal settlements. Israeli people are legally responsible for their own actions, but Palestinian people are murdered by their hundreds, by the Israeli military, using helicopter gunships, over the actions of five individuals on a rooftop. Entire districts are leveled to get at tiny numbers of political and paramilitary activists.

The Israeli government blockades routes of supply of medical aid and food to HUGE areas of Palestine, doing more harm to people who are entirely non-combatant and not in any way the enemies of Israel, than it ever does to those individuals who can be properly said to be dedicated to making guerilla warfare against Israel.

The number of extreme examples of human rights abuses by Israel toward totally innocent people on the wrong side of their ever expanding borders, would be summed up as war crimes if any other state had enacted them, and have bordered on the genocidal in times past. The leadership in Israel has been shown to be xenophobic and fascist in its approach to the issues on countless occasions, so your protestations really mean absolutely nothing. The weight of historical evidence renders your argument meaningless.