Home protection

a reply to: Lojack

I have tons of old mine shafts....

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: grey580
a reply to: intrptr

Oh yeah. I had a friend that lived in some crappy apartments.

One day he was trying to take a nap when he heard the window break. He jumped out of bed and grabbed the shotgun in his closet. As he rounded the corner into the living room he racked the slide. The would be intruder leaped right back out of the window he came in.

There you go. Everybody recognizes that sound, knows what it means. We don't really want to kill anyone we don't have to. Plus the shotgun hits hard, is easier to aim in a darkened hallway and, with a load of bird shot, won't over penetrate other rooms where loved ones might be hiding or homes across the street like a pistol or rifle.

So answer me this, and I don't mean to sound mocking. Do you have experience with this idea, or do you just watch a lot of TV?

If you are NOT a combat pistol-craft/rifle expert, do you realize you may be giving half-fast advice?

Have you ever shot a shotgun? Have you ever defended your home with one? Do you know the difference between 'bird-shot' and buckshot? Nobody in their right mind who has actual SD expertise with a shotgun or loads would recommend 'bird-shot'.

I think you mean well, but to me it sounds like made-up advice.

FWIW

a reply to: DBCowboy

Charter Arms Undercoverette

charterfirearms.com...

Aluminum frame, 32 magnum caliber, 5 shot, weighs only 12 oz

Lower recoil than 38 with equivalent power

originally posted by: Maverick7

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: grey580
a reply to: intrptr

Oh yeah. I had a friend that lived in some crappy apartments.

One day he was trying to take a nap when he heard the window break. He jumped out of bed and grabbed the shotgun in his closet. As he rounded the corner into the living room he racked the slide. The would be intruder leaped right back out of the window he came in.

There you go. Everybody recognizes that sound, knows what it means. We don't really want to kill anyone we don't have to. Plus the shotgun hits hard, is easier to aim in a darkened hallway and, with a load of bird shot, won't over penetrate other rooms where loved ones might be hiding or homes across the street like a pistol or rifle.

So answer me this, and I don't mean to sound mocking. Do you have experience with this idea, or do you just watch a lot of TV?

If you are NOT a combat pistol-craft/rifle expert, do you realize you may be giving half-fast advice?

Have you ever shot a shotgun? Have you ever defended your home with one? Do you know the difference between 'bird-shot' and buckshot? Nobody in their right mind who has actual SD expertise with a shotgun or loads would recommend 'bird-shot'.

I think you mean well, but to me it sounds like made-up advice.

FWIW

Thats what arm chair experts think. A shotgun shell typically has an ounce of shot. At the distances one encounters inside the home that wad comes out the barrel as a tight lump the size of a quarter and hits its target with about the same kinetic energy , regardless if its a slug, buck or bird shot.

Bird shot presents less problems with over penetration and ricochet, hits harder than any rifle or pistol at that close range, dispersing its energy into instead of thru the target.

What misses looses energy quickly in walls and doors, presenting less of a threat to any nearby family members in other rooms and your neighbors.

shotshell 101

a reply to: intrptr

Rule of thumb is shot spreads 1 inch per yard of distance - also depends on type of barrel

A tightly choked barrel will spread less as it travels

originally posted by: firerescue
a reply to: intrptr

Rule of thumb is shot spreads 1 inch per yard of distance - also depends on type of barrel

A tightly choked barrel will spread less as it travels

Longer ( 'field' ) barrels with chokes are for hunting , controlling spread of shot at a distance. Longer barrels are unwieldy inside a home, an 18 inch barrel swings easier, and shot spread is insignificant at room or hallway distances.

If you have to shoot out the door or window, slugs turn shotgun to rifle.

a reply to: DBCowboy

DB,
I own the Raging Judge, as a home protection its superb...but have the wife use either the .410 pdx round or .45 long colt as neither has much of a kick, particularly the .410. PDX .410 rounds have something like a, 8 inch max spread at 25 ft if I remember correctly and again a very low almost negligible recoil.

I also have a .38 +p revolver (Ruger LCRx). It is pretty accurate at 25, very at 15, the Ruger is very light 15.6 oz empty 16oz loaded. The .38 is the better option if sh plans on carrying down the road imo, the Raging Judge with PDX rounds at home, its a low recoil, hand shotgun, cant miss at 15ft. Weighs a fair bit, but that helps recoil using the large rounds...dont waste your money on buying .454 casull rounds for this gun unless your in bear country...its just not very accurate at 25ft. and .454 fors for 39-$50+ a box/20.

My wife just got her carry and she purchased the Kimber Micro9 6+1 9mm single stack, small, accurate (crimson trace palm activated laser)a little bit of kick and LOUD so a .380 might be worth looking at if thes not fond of recoil.

Why again are you set on a revolver?

Admittedly, I'm not a big revolver fan so I carry some bias, if that's what gets you excited go for it, but please don't take the advice of the dealer on what you should defend your life with as gospel. I highly recommend going out and putting your hands on every handgun you can, and if you can find a place that has a range with rentals that would be even better. Feeling and shooting them will help you decide quite quickly, I cant tell you how many I liked on paper but hate in the hand.
All that said, a small caliber pistol (maybe 9mm) would be my choice followed by a small (size and gauge) shot gun ...lots of give and take here but don't forget a shot gun can be very unwieldy inside a house.

a reply to: Maverick7

You're right, his "advice" sucks and represents the state of the art in preinternet "gunshop common knowledge".

Don't shoot people with birdshot you're just gonna piss 'em off... That's why it's called BIRDSHOT not BURGLARSHOT! (please do tell me about cut shells... No really I'm interested... I'm not actually interested BTW because you're a moron if you jam a cut shell in a pump gun or semi)

Rifle rounds like 556 are actually hilariously good at not over penetrating (see box o truth if you don't believe me) even before you get to frangibles.... That's right Millicent, if you gotta you can crack open the m193 m855 or dirty wolf polyformance in your choice of 55 or 62 grain flavors and not actually worry too much about hitting neighbors etc!

(I'll take why is the m4 THE GUN OF SWAT for $2000 Alex!)

Birdshot btw at BEST is a 2-4 inch penetrator in HUMAN FLESH ANALOG!

Know what it doesn't penetrate or Break up at all?

BONE

see the problem yet?

I used to run bird then buck in my shotgun as an HD solution a decade ago at a point when I was rifle poor and it was that or start flinging 9x19 fmj in the dark! (Which over penetrates like a solid bastard wall after wall sometimes... Why? Idk I'm not an expert in high energy collision mechanics, but it's true and again box o truth will show you)

But, here's the thing, I KNEW my bird wasn't stopping anything and that's why there were at best two rounds of it up first backed up with good old fashioned 00 buck!

My priority at the time was preferably ending a fight by securing a retreat from the interloper via whacking him with bird and hoping he ran!

I have a family now, my policy has changed...

No4 buckshot seems to be a decent performer. Takes away the overpenetration issue while still having enough oomph to drop someone reliably.

Here's a good link demonstrating why a shotgin loaded correctly can be a decent choice.

a reply to: PaddyInf

Oh yeah I never said shottys were bad ...

Especially if you have what you need to load your own shot shells so you can do "buck and ball" aka Rhodesian jungle loads but then the bird shot is just there to strip back foliage.

I have ye olde Mossberg and such, but since most of us have SO's who may not be as comfortable hip shooting a 12 gauge an AR is a much better choice!

Especially now that decent lights and tape switches are extremely affordable!

The only disadvantage of course being that if you touch off an AR in a hallway (especially a braked one!) with no ear pro you basically have the same reaction as Tommy Lee Jones in Under Siege when the 16 inch guns fire unexpectedly while he's unprotected on deck LOL...

It hurts, but not as bad as death from what I understand.

a reply to: Martin75

Looking like a British model. nice trigger

originally posted by: Martin75
a reply to: DBCowboy

Is she set on a revolver? I love my Shield & LCP. Perfect for a woman to conceal carry.

Small .380's are difficult to rack for weaker hands except for the Remington RM380. Its downside is a looonnng trigger. Your plan should be to go to a range and rent or borrow some of the candidate weapons so she can determine what she can shoot. Start with a .22 and work your way up. She may end up with a .22 revolver or the monstrous Judge but whatever it is, don't buy something and then find out that she is too afraid to shoot it. You also have to decide if it is carry and home defense or only home defense. A .38 snub will do both and you can load the first chamber with snake shot if she feels better about it. Ear protection for the range, of course, but don't tell her about permanent hearing loss from firing a gun in a closed space without it or she may hesitate when she shouldn't.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Get her if she doesn't already have one a 16 gauge shotgun with birdshot/pellets... nice, easy, and cant miss her shot. No bad kick to hurt her. I had one before a home fire and LOVED it.