EA Games And The Ethics of The Computer Games Industry

a reply to: Aazadan

Damn. That's some perfectionism you got there. My attention is too random to stick with a game for that long. Despite that though I have over 120 hours into Civ 5 despite buying it last year. I can see why time adds up with that game. You start playing and the next thing you know it's two days later and your family is kicking down your door wondering where you disappeared to. Then you just tell them, "Hold on. Just one more turn..."

Most of the time, however, I play through a single player game once or twice (if on a harder difficulty), try to get as many achievements as possible then move on. Many times I don't even finish the game.

a reply to: TheScale

This is really going to show my bias towards hating gaming culture, but they're really entitled with games. They see a good IP and feel like the game should be catered to them, and often times, especially with a loot box system, it isn't.

I get it, there's certain franchises I really like too, and I would hate to see them adopt that model, but there's not much to be done. If a game is relying on whales, accept that you either need to spend a lot of money to be a whale or that the game isn't for you.

I've sat in meetings where these business strategies are being argued. If you don't like a particular model, all I can say is to buy another game. Most companies are really digging their feet in on this. Fortunately, Steam has made it easier than ever to get games, and there's some fantastic smaller studios out there. If you like strategy, Paradox has your back with EU4 and Stellaris, if you like single player RPG's try out Larian Studios (Divinity: Original Sin 1/2) or Spiderweb Software. These companies are all very loyal to their customers, and have great communities. If you want a MOBA I've heard that Smite is decent as a casual game, and then there's Overwatch.

originally posted by: TheScale
go out and start learning to code, make new connections within that industry and build each other up and make that game that doesnt exist for people like you. its not up to everyone else to make the world u want, it requires effort on your own part. not really gonna even respond to the false dichotomies in there cause honestly, you should know better

I mostly agree with you. And I can actually say that I've done just that. But it's a lot harder than you make it out to be to make something good.

I make games all the time, but I don't make AAA games that are ever going to be put on Steam. Honestly, it's for the best because game dev is a pretty miserable field to be in. There's 100 people who want your job, the hours are LONG, and the pay is low. I've found that the best way to scratch my itch is to enter gamejams and present at conferences with side projects. I'll never get rich off my games that way, but it keeps a foot in the industry and lets me play with the technologies I enjoy.

originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: TheScale

This is really going to show my bias towards hating gaming culture, but they're really entitled with games. They see a good IP and feel like the game should be catered to them, and often times, especially with a loot box system, it isn't.

Any pvp centric genre is going to have an entitled playerbase. Because competition makes people want to win and people who play games want to win easier. Thus they want the game catered to them. Nevermind they can overcome what is beating them with practice, it's just easier to whine instead.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
No, there is no such opportunity. I have work to do. I am about my business, one I have worked for too many years, sacrificed far too much for, to abandon at this stage, which I would have to do, in order to properly apply myself to a new profession, especially one involving computer languages, which, unless one is born adept, take ages to learn.

They don't take that long. It's not easy but you can go through Harvards CS50x online (for free) and they'll teach you the beginning of programming. I teach people too. I think the most daunting part of any good program that teaches you programming is that instructors are mostly without mercy, I'm the same way but only because I've never found a better way to teach it (it's literally all I've ever been exposed to). If you complete CS50x you'll have enough knowledge to build anything, just not very efficiently. I would say that you should expect it to take about 400-500 hours. Then another 100 hours for Unity. Then if you want to make your own art assets another 400 hours for 3d modeling.

So if you give it 15 hours a week, you're looking at just over a year to hit the basics.

At that point you're good to build a lot of cool things in gamejams like Global Game Jam and Ludum Dare.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Aazadan

Damn. That's some perfectionism you got there. My attention is too random to stick with a game for that long. Despite that though I have over 120 hours into Civ 5 despite buying it last year. I can see why time adds up with that game. You start playing and the next thing you know it's two days later and your family is kicking down your door wondering where you disappeared to. Then you just tell them, "Hold on. Just one more turn..."

Most of the time, however, I play through a single player game once or twice (if on a harder difficulty), try to get as many achievements as possible then move on. Many times I don't even finish the game.

It could be perfectionism, I just like solving things. Most games can be beaten with the same algorithm run over and over. I like figuring those things out. It's not so much perfectionism as solving something.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
Any pvp centric genre is going to have an entitled playerbase. Because competition makes people want to win and people who play games want to win easier. Thus they want the game catered to them. Nevermind they can overcome what is beating them with practice, it's just easier to whine instead.

It exists in pve games too as people still compete over wanting to be the best. I should know. I was the top player serverwide in an MMO for 10 years. I was so good at civ 4 the AI revamp in an expansion was modeled after how I play (I was one of the first players to beat the top difficulty of the game too... something the devs thought was impossible).

At the end of it, players like seeing progression. In pve that tends to take the form of higher stats or new objects while in pvp it's a higher ELO ranking. If you tell people they can progress faster with a shortcut, they'll often times pay for it. Even when that progression is relative to only themselves. Another aspect is that grinding missions just to play the game you want to play is no fun. Depending on what you value your time at, sitting there grinding simply makes less sense than paying for an unlock. Would you rather work 3 additional hours at work to play the character you want, or waste a full weekend getting that character? That's why these systems are successful.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Aazadan

Damn. That's some perfectionism you got there. My attention is too random to stick with a game for that long. Despite that though I have over 120 hours into Civ 5 despite buying it last year. I can see why time adds up with that game. You start playing and the next thing you know it's two days later and your family is kicking down your door wondering where you disappeared to. Then you just tell them, "Hold on. Just one more turn..."

Most of the time, however, I play through a single player game once or twice (if on a harder difficulty), try to get as many achievements as possible then move on. Many times I don't even finish the game.

It could be perfectionism, I just like solving things. Most games can be beaten with the same algorithm run over and over. I like figuring those things out. It's not so much perfectionism as solving something.

I like breaking jrpgs myself. Japanese rpgs tend to be programmed with the ability to overlevel your characters (sometimes the developer will scale experience with each level gained though) and I like to find the most overpowered combination of attacks and just blow through the game without trying. This is why I like the Disgaea games so much. They were made for players like myself. Just something satisfactory about taking your level 900 character into a fight against a bunch of level 60's and just blowing them all up with one AOE attack while laughing manically that gets me every time.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
Any pvp centric genre is going to have an entitled playerbase. Because competition makes people want to win and people who play games want to win easier. Thus they want the game catered to them. Nevermind they can overcome what is beating them with practice, it's just easier to whine instead.

It exists in pve games too as people still compete over wanting to be the best. I should know. I was the top player serverwide in an MMO for 10 years. I was so good at civ 4 the AI revamp in an expansion was modeled after how I play (I was one of the first players to beat the top difficulty of the game too... something the devs thought was impossible).

I can see that with MMO's too. I played WoW as well. I wasn't in a top raiding guild, but I went far so I understand the pressure that is on those players, and WoW Arenas were what got me into the competitive fighting game scene.

I can also see that in retro platformers or metroidvanias that people speed run and sequence hack to beat.

At the end of it, players like seeing progression. In pve that tends to take the form of higher stats or new objects while in pvp it's a higher ELO ranking. If you tell people they can progress faster with a shortcut, they'll often times pay for it. Even when that progression is relative to only themselves. Another aspect is that grinding missions just to play the game you want to play is no fun. Depending on what you value your time at, sitting there grinding simply makes less sense than paying for an unlock. Would you rather work 3 additional hours at work to play the character you want, or waste a full weekend getting that character? That's why these systems are successful.

I happen to like putting in the work. It feels more rewarding when you finally achieve it. I will sit in training mode in Street Fighter V for HOURS practicing the same thing over and over again just to get it in muscle memory so I can do it in a match. Raiding in WoW also helped me normalize grinding in rpgs too. That's why I can grind in jrpgs and overlevel my characters easily (especially when I figure out speed leveling tricks). I also like playing platformers and figuring out the best sequence of jumps/mobility options to reach the next area.

But I can see your point. I see it a lot myself, and I'm not entirely innocent of this behavior either. Recognizing my tendency to not finish games, if I'm playing a game I want to maximize or get the true ending out of a collection of several endings, I'll use a Steam guide or a Gamefaqs guide to find all the secrets.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
I can see that with MMO's too. I played WoW as well. I wasn't in a top raiding guild, but I went far so I understand the pressure that is on those players, and WoW Arenas were what got me into the competitive fighting game scene.

I've run top raiding guilds, multiple servers in multiple MMO's. There's really not that much pressure on the regular people. It all just comes down to your ability to make a strategy, execute it, and manage people so that it gets done... which is largely communication. If I had the time in my life, I would probably do it again, but it takes 10-12 hours 7 days a week. No different from running a business really (and in many ways, that's all it is).

a reply to: Aazadan

First off, I was a healer. I'm always the healer. I got tired of forming a group of all dps and then disbanding cause we never had a healer or a tank so I made sure I was a class that would always be needed. It's pretty much my default pick in these types of games because I know it best. Unfortunately, like the tank, healers are abused regularly.

My goal making it through PUGs or PURs (during my later WoW days when blizzard significantly nerfed raiding) was to not be yelled at by the dps. Tall order since they like to stand in the glowing spots all the time. So I had that to deal with. But those are pickups and we all know they are notoriously awful and unpleasant, but there is also a dynamic at play when I'm talking about the pressure aspect with guild raiding.

When it comes to raiding, especially with higher end raiding guilds, you HAVE to be there regularly, on time, and ready to go. That means all potions or buffs are properly farmed, gear is repaired, hunters have arrows, etc. So on top of the time investment required for the raid itself, there is also the time needed to just grind in order to actually enter the raid in the first place.

And while it is true that a raid is rather simple once you learn it, but learning a new boss, and especially if that boss is the first boss in a new raid, can be some EXCRUCIATINGLY painful raids. Repair costs are higher than usual, no one gets any gear for their effort, people get frustrated, its hard to get people to show up, etc.

It's why I started gravitating towards Arenas towards the end. They were quicker, I could do them whenever I wanted (or when my team was online) and the competition was exhilarating, but I just kept getting annoyed that gear/stats could totally alter a matchup and make it unbalanced despite perfect play. Eventually I just got bored and moved to fighting games and never looked back.

a reply to: TrueBrit

EA is a horrible game company. So is any other company that uses "loot boxes" or Pay 2 Win schemes. Loot boxes were interesting at first, the thrill of not knowing if you're gonna get something really good or something you could live without. But boy oh boy, everyone now uses this method to milk as much money out of their customers as possible.

The same for DLC's and subscription services on top of paying for the game on top of paying for Xbox Live (if you're on that console).

For all those responding to my "guilt" question - sorry for the very late reply! It's good to know it may wear off. And for those asking why the guilt, it is simply a (subconscious) acknowledgment that possibly i should be doing more constructive things with my time.

Which raises the worrying possibility that i may actually be finally growing up............