How the world changed after 9/11

originally posted by: Black_Fox
Just my opinion.

The world, people, society, morals...have all gone to $hit since 9/11.

And the downward spiral continues.......

Sad, but many don’t see it that way. I think people honestly think it’s the death throes of the old guard. And once the old guard is gone, it’s going to be an utopian nirvana of no work, everyone will be YouTube stars, all unicorn rainbow farts.

When the truth is, every experiment in a worker’s utopia ends up as Greece, the USSR, and Venezuela. I just read, a short time ago Venezuela was one of the richest countries in South America. Now they ration toilet paper and are defaulting.

Maybe people really want to be hooked up to life support and king of their virtual reality than meet the challenge of a physical existence?

By the way. I still believe people need to feel somebody is in control. The truth movement is about; its better to believe someone is in control than a group of hijackers can cause so much random death and chaos.

People can be empowered to fight evil. How do you fight something as random and chaotic as a tornado.

And yes, the hijackers were evil bastards.

For me, it boils down to this.....

How is thinking the government is the only power big enough to provide total security vs government is the only power big enough to provide total healthcare and physical well-being any different. (The first part ties to the false belief the USA was too powerful to let 9/11 happen, so it had to be allowed)

It all comes from the same call. We at the top are the only ones with the wisdom and sophistication to govern. Just give us control, and you will have nirvana.

I don't understand those who either wittingly or unwittingly allow themselves to serve as gatekeepers of the official story BS.

It's just not helpful at all to play the role of the devil's advocate.

The aim of my OP was to help serve to generate a bit of a clearing, to help us recover what was ruined and in part, that involves a certain dedication to the truth and reality.

The victims deserve so much better. We all do.

You won't find me towing the line and regurgitating the propaganda that is in no small measure to blame for the overall malaise.

a reply to: AnkhMorpork

The victims and the family’s that had remains returned for burial deserve better than the lies and exploitation by the truth movement.

There is no evidence of CD at the towers.

Flight 93 crashed at shanksville as attested to by the remains identified and release to families. Recovered personal items and wreckage.

The only credible explanation for the damage at the pentagon was a large commercial jet

How does enabling those of the truth movement that exploit 9/11 honor the dead, and get us closer to the truth.

No proof conspiracy theories for just the twin towers...
-self destructing buildings
-rebar covered in C-4
-nuclear bombs
-fizzle no flash explosives
-thermite ceiling tiles
-thermite paint
-lasers and holograms
-missiles and holograms
-Illuminati invoked jets
-fire extinguisher bombs
-bombs in the basement
-dustification

The lie the towers fell at the rate of free fall.

The lie the towers had to fall through the path of greatest resistance for a symmetrical collapse. The core columns fell at a rate slower than the floor system. Long lengths of vertical core columns remained standing whole seconds after the complete collapse of the floor system.


I do not know who played the truth movement, but the truth movement was allowed to be played in its desperation for a smoking gun.

What have you done to discredit the lies? Or have you enabled them?

I used to watch that show cops all the time. It was neat early on (1st 10 seasons) to watch cops treat people kindly and respectfully. "Show me whats in your pockets."

Check out the show these days and its "Get on the ground."

We've all become suspect.

That's some ass-backwards Stockholm syndrome.
Pardon my cuss.

I guess I'll go a little further and try to express what I gain from my observations regarding this angle.
The push came to shove when we were told this is the best security force on the planet. The force that dropped the ball; this is where safety is it's behind my sword. Watch me as I slay those who you might grow to love if I don't do it soon enough.

All these fear-based skits performed on msm is the saddest pile of scat.

So the sun will rise again and I will be there smiling and looking on knowing I did what was right for me and I didn't harm anyone in the process.

a reply to: neutronflux


Let's just move on. We both feel that the other side's views and activities are an absolute disgrace!

Let us agree to disagree.

But any skeptic in their right mind would apply a healthy dose of skepticism to the official story which is imho, hardly self evident.

I've got to keep it civil..

I've noticed that some participants hover over the 9/11 forum, and that most of their posts and activities and energies are spent almost exclusively in working hard to defend the official story.

To each their own.

got to keep it civil... phew!

a reply to: AnkhMorpork

Good job on staying civil.
Your OP is about something deeper, that escapes the foot-soldiers, and minion-warriors.

You expressed something deep, and you were understood by at least a couple of us.
Maybe it should just stay at that, because, as you have seen: other forces will seek to take over the narrative of this thread.
Don't need to push it, unless you want to conduct an experiment, and communicate on a secondary level, while appearing to be at the base level.

Otherwise: we just all go back to pretending to live normal-like, while knowing that we have communicated, and been understood, and leave it at that.

To hell with the role-players.

a reply to: Nothin

You're getting warmer.

a reply to: CreationBro


I think he gets it just fine.

It's just a flame in a dark field of ignorance, that's all I was hoping to help spark and feed.

It can penetrate straight through, while at the same time betraying certain motivations on the part of some.

What we say, and how we react and respond matters. It makes a difference.

It doesn't even have to include alien interference, but like I pointed out even they are subject to the double edged sword of authentic civility.

For me I think this has something to do with both the pre-9/11 "ambiance" as well as the spirit of the many victims both on that tragic day and in it's wake.

I want the bright light of life to return, and the wind to blow like the spirit freely through the flag once again which no amount of economic growth alone can muster.

It's lost on many people, and he understands that clearly.

I almost lost it, and he was applauding me for not going over the edge into vile snarkiness, no matter what the other might be up to.

Care to elaborate on what you mean to say when you say to him that he's getting warmer..?

Enlighten us.

a reply to: AnkhMorpork

The truth movement could have been a beautiful thing, but it became a breeding ground for lies. Reap what you sow.

It’s hard to move on when people that support the truth movement rush out and financially kowtow to lies like DR Woods Book that claims the towers were turn to dust by a process called Dustification. A case with no science to support it.

You are never going to get to the truth by denying the damage at the pentagon was caused by a large jet.

The truth movement has no credibility.
I will post this, and point out there is no proof of CD at the WTC. Also, Scientists for 9/11 Truth saw the handwriting on the wall a little too late. The conclusion points out the obvious that large jet deniers willfully ignore.

Bringing Closure to the 9/11 Pentagon Debate

911truth.org...

Conclusion

Despite the clear evidence and its analysis using the scientific method of large plane impact, a substantial portion of the 9/11 truth movement, including accepted leaders and those involved in major organizations, continues to publicly endorse, adhere to, or promulgate talks, writings and films on false Pentagon hypotheses. Some simply offer criticisms and reject or ignore evidence that would bring closure to the argument. There is clear evidence by way of disintegrating truth groups that these endorsements and communications are injurious to the movement. Public feedback shows that the false Pentagon hypotheses undermine public acceptance of other highly credible scientific findings, such as the demolitions of the Twin Towers and Building 7 (WTC7) in New York City.

Most rank and file members of the 9/11 truth movement take their cues on the Pentagon from well-known speakers, writers, and acknowledged leaders of the movement. The quickest way to end the ongoing damage to the movement’s credibility and bring closure would be for these prominent individuals to publicly repudiate their former endorsements, views, and statements on the Pentagon event and acknowledge the scientific method and its conclusion of large plane impact. In the absence of public repudiations, the damage caused by false Pentagon hypotheses is likely to continue indefinitely, even if those who fueled their spread cease to promote them. Consequently, the surest way to end the debate and enhance the credibility of the movement is for each individual to study, without bias or prejudice, the evidence for themselves.

The recent papers by scientists, engineers and others showing large plane impact at the Pentagon have been collected together on a website that invites feedback and discussion. Comments can be sent to the Scientific Method 9/11 website which specifically invites feedback on many of the papers listed below.

By why repudiate when you can make an even bigger lie to keep the conspiracy cash cow on life support?

a reply to: AnkhMorpork

You want to honor the victims of 9/11? But when I point out people and groups like coast to coat radio, AE 9/11 Truth, Gage, Jones, Dr Wood financially profited from exploiting 9/11 through pseudoscience, hiding of facts, and lies; all you can say is let us agree to disagree?

If you cannot even police your own house, how are you to be entrusted with anything else?

originally posted by: AnkhMorpork
a reply to: neutronflux



I've got to keep it civil..

You failed

such a view might offend their rah rah pro-American "patriotic" sensibilities or because they are in so much denial that they are prepared to go to any lengths, even at the expense of a commitment to truth and reality itself, to support and uphold and defend the official story.

I don't understand those who either wittingly or unwittingly allow themselves to serve as gatekeepers of the official story BS.

You won't find me towing the line and regurgitating the propaganda

But any skeptic in their right mind would apply a healthy dose of skepticism to the official story which is imho, hardly self evident.

I've noticed that some participants hover over the 9/11 forum, and that most of their posts and activities and energies are spent almost exclusively in working hard to defend the official story.

a reply to: AnkhMorpork

I whole heartedly concur with both his post and yours to be frank! Im on board with you AM.

My reply to him was simply a turn of phrase, but to elaborate, I was implying details about who, what, where, when, why and how, that, if made known to the public mind, would revolutionize, catalyze, and ultimately shift the global paradigm in a way that would dwarf anything seen on Earth.

Sort of a collision of all of our ancestor's observations, history in general, and modern day science and knowledge, coming to a point, yielding a truly new era.

I personally refer to this as the Apocalypse. The Unveiling of heavenly "stuff," to put it simply.

as diesal fuel gets 1000x hotter than a regular fire.

Sometimes there are no words...

Well, I have been thinking along these lines for the past couple of months or so. But really, it's just been a growing thought in my mind pretty much ever since that day.

When it first happened, it didn't seem to be all that "world changing". At least not to me. Not right away. But then again I was in my 20s and pretty naive. I had actually never been to NYC or seen the WTC. I had no idea just how huge those buildings were. I saw it all happen on a 13" TV with bad reception so I guess I can be forgiven for not completely grasping the full magnitude of it at the time.

I mean, yes, I obviously knew it was the kind of thing that had really never happened before in this country. And I did realize right away there were going to be serious consequences to civil liberties and so forth.

And you know. It's the weirdest thing. When I saw the buildings fall I just looked at my coworker and said "Well, I guess we're going to invade Iraq now". I didn't actually believe Iraq had anything to do with it. I just felt it that they would use it as an excuse to go to war in Iraq.

Anyway, yeah. It didn't seem to drastically change the world right away. I mean it was obviously all anyone was talking about but I figured it would pass. Oklahoma City seemed like a big deal at the time and that kind of blew over eventually.

I have also noticed the "vibe" or "ambiance" or whatever of everything post 9/11. My thinking on that is that it might just be your memory of movies that were made before 9/11. Movies kind of have the same power to take you back as music does. Like if I hear a song I used to listen to when I was 15 it takes me right back there.

If you see a movie that was made in the 80s (and you actually remember the 80s) or even the 90s, of course it seems like everything was more innocent. But it's obviously going to take people back to that time when they see those cars and those clothes and hear that music and the whole general "vibe" of the time.

I suppose we were more innocent. I'll admit I haven't trusted people and have been far more cynical about everything since then. And I look around at all the nonsense and the craziness that goes on now and it really does seem like things went into a steep decline just after 9/11. It's as if almost everything bad that happens can be traced back to that day in one way or another.

I had almost forgotten that we actually did have school shootings and so forth before 9/11. Someone mentioned Columbine a while back and I had to remind myself when that took place. I barely remember it, actually. I don't know if I even paid much attention at the time. I remember it being on the news.

It's weird though. People don't talk about 9/11 much anymore. It's kind of depressing because 9/11 is the reason everything is the way it is and no one really thinks about it or discusses it. Like "Hey. How the hell did we end up arguing over Donald Trump?" I don't know. Does anyone believe Trump would have ever been president without 9/11? I think the aftermath of 9/11 (and the insanity of the Bush and Obama years) just lowered the bar to the point to where you can stick any cartoon character in the White House and it seems perfectly legit.

I mean I can't even really process it. It doesn't seem real that Trump is the POTUS. Or at least I would have laughed if someone told me that could happen back in the day. People knew who he was but I don't think he would have ever been able to win an election against Clinton before 9/11. I could be wrong but I think the world has just been that destabilized that just about anything can happen now and people will just roll with it.

a reply to: AnkhMorpork


You are absolutely correct that things are not the same, but that would be true even if the events of that day had never happened. Change goes on no matter what.

But it is HOW things were changed by the events of that day, downstream.

THE TRUTH ABOUT JAMES RANDI:

She's more right than she knows!

www.youtube.com...

NOW WHO OR WHAT DID SHE SPEAK TO AND WHAT WAS ASKED OF HER?

Randi with his SKULL CANE is a fitting final image of this man and his IDEOLOGY OF DEATH...

www.youtube.com...

Full explanation:

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Under Construction:

WATCH THE PROCESS

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SPOT THE LOONIE!

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Well, that is not entirely true. Your ONLY purpose is to humiliate, demean, and abolish faith. But two can play at this game!

the falling away invented new sectors for it's evil agenda,actually

The mind of a conspiracist? How about this for a logical argument on identifying disinfo agents?

THE BANNER OF DEPRAVED LIARS - The JREF forum spends a great deal of time attacking me with slanderous comments meant to discredit me and my 9-11 research. The comments are all written in proper English with correct punctuation, a good indication that the writers are professional disinfo agents.
educationforum.ipbhost.com...

Never minded well educated persons that create research papers or research proposals for a living might see the hypocrisy of the true movement?