Could Gender Dysphoria, "Transracialism," And The Like Be Evidence Of Reincarnation?

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Instead of the long-held belief of reincarnation in some cultures, could some of the noted ‘abnormal behaviors’ be the result of Dawkins’ theory of social evolution via “memes”? Obviously, schizophrenia and just good ole ‘crazy’ have been with us since time immemorial, but “gender dysphoria” and some other ‘abnormal behaviors’ seem to have ‘evolved’, recently.

It stands to reason, if reincarnation has been a constant since the beginning of the human experience, that these abnormal behaviors are a result of something beyond reincarnation — operating under the assumption that the protocols and patterns of reincarnation are the same. I haven’t learned or been exposed to any theories/data that suggest human physiology (particularly, in the brain or genitals) has ‘evolved’ in any appreciable way to suggest it is a purely anatomical phenomenon. So, if reincarnation is, wholly or in part, responsible for said abnormal behaviors, I would believe those behaviors would have surfaced before (e.g. homosexuality has been around since time immemorial)...given these behaviors are a ‘new’ phenomenon, I would wager Dawkins’ theory on social evolution via “memes” explains the increased prevalence/incidence of these abnormal behaviors, as best can be explained at present.

originally posted by: snowspirit
a reply to: SlapMonkey

I used to have a friend, whose daughter used to ask people if they remembered when she was a Chinese boy. She grew out of it by the time she was around 5.

Grew out of it, or was told enough times that she was being silly that she believed it and suppressed the reality?

You're right, almost everything is possible, including that scenario (and I'm not saying that I believe that, but I feel that playing the devil's advocate on this one is appropriate).

if this is the case ... do tell how the f dose the force behind reincarnation not know male from female ... just saying

originally posted by: BeefNoMeat
a reply to: SlapMonkey

Instead of the long-held belief of reincarnation in some cultures, could some of the noted ‘abnormal behaviors’ be the result of Dawkins’ theory of social evolution via “memes”? Obviously, schizophrenia and just good ole ‘crazy’ have been with us since time immemorial, but “gender dysphoria” and some other ‘abnormal behaviors’ seem to have ‘evolved’, recently.

I disagree that gender dysphoria is a recent thing--yes, it's been politicized, and people in Alaska know about a transgender invidivual in Serbia because of social media, but without the immediate means of communication and sharing that we have now because of technology, people in Bartlett, Nebraska, wouldn't have a reason to consider the possibility of, let alone know that there's an entire LGBT Community Center in New York.

Globalizing social media and immediate communications, coupled with ever-increasing global population and acceptance of what used to be taboo things (like transgenderism, homosexuality, etc.) just add to the feeling that it's more prevalent.

But if you research the history of such things, you'll realize that it has existed as long as recorded history. (The story of "Mulan" is a relevant example)

It stands to reason, if reincarnation has been a constant since the beginning of the human experience, that these abnormal behaviors are a result of something beyond reincarnation — operating under the assumption that the protocols and patterns of reincarnation are the same.

Well, we'll agree to disagree, I suppose, considering I don't share your claim that I don't agree with your "memes" theory of evolution of human behavior, at least not as a driving force for the consideration in my OP.

... given these behaviors are a ‘new’ phenomenon, I would wager Dawkins’ theory on social evolution via “memes” explains the increased prevalence/incidence of these abnormal behaviors, as best can be explained at present.

Again, we'll differ on our opinions as to whether or not gender dysphoria is a "'new' phenomenon," so that means that we disagree with each other's approach. But that's the fun thing about ideas concerning the unknown--no one is ever really correct.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

NO

a reply to: markovian

I'm not sure that you understand my approach to this--this is just a theory about one possibility out of a million. If you're wanting concrete answers, you're in the wrong thread.

I will never claim to know the ins and outs of life, death, or the afterlife or pre-life specifics.

But to consider possibilities, I noted on page one that I had the thought once that consciousness basically disperses into many tiny particles upon death--particles that float around like neutrinos or muons (invisible to the naked eye, but can pass through solid objects)--and come together randomly at the literal spark of life that happens during conception. Now, the physical chromosomes provided by the father determine the physical sex of the baby, but what if the particle of consciousness that controls the brain's awareness of sex came from someone of the opposite sex in the previous life?

That scenario would cause conflict in the awareness of the individual. Maybe most people are capable of overcoming this discord (dependent on the make-up of their consciousness), and maybe some are not. Maybe some are nurtured to overcome this, and maybe some are left alone to have the discord within them. Maybe this is why we get effeminate males and "tomboy" girls.

I really don't know, and these are all a bunch of 'maybes' coupled into a relatively short-lived idea...but I consider it worth pondering, even if I don't have all of the answers.

In any event, it's much better than just pointing and yelling "FREAK!" when we see someone who doesn't fit the average mold that society has constructed.

originally posted by: norhoc
a reply to: SlapMonkey

NO

In any event, I appreciate your well thought-out rebuttal to my OP. Thank you for taking such a hefty amount of time out of your day to formulate such an insightful, intelligent response.

I hope to see more of these brilliant comments if the thread continues to grow.

Best regards.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Stupid questions dont warrant a very long answer

a reply to: SlapMonkey

I think it has a lot to do with exogenous hormones nowadays, particularly estrogen.

originally posted by: Dogwooddoors
Great thread!! I have done much study on this that was kicked off by reading "many lives, many masters" by Brian Weiss, www.brianweiss.com... . I have no doubt that we come back time after time. Reincarnation seems to have been in the Christen Bible and was removed because the Church thought it removed control over people if they thought you came back again!!

I've had the same thoughts....could you point out where or how the Bible had reincarnation text and how it was removed .

a reply to: SlapMonkey



If we hold to a general theory of reincarnation, past lives number bunches and of those bunches we might assume a plethora of lives spent as female and likewise as male. Going with this assumption, we may also assume that which ever gender one is born into in this incarnation is a result of whatever karmic balances dictate it to be.

Holding with that still, the ''veil'' between any current incarnation and all past incarnations, at least historically, indicate some degree of illusory separation between present and past incarnations. This would allow for whatever ''purpose'' a present incarnation is taking place.

Still holding with this idea, the notion that there are historical examples that this ''veil'' is thinner with some people, most of which ''grow'' out of it at an early age, suggests that possibly there is ''overflow'' from previous lives that can account for much of what any present incarnation is feeling or sensing or knowing, but that that separation illusion keeps all of these things to be interpreted by the present incarnation.

Adding , as Beefnomeat does, Dawkin's and social memes to this mix is interesting. Holding with that general reincarnation theory above, might the ''veil'' be, at least to some degree, the strength of whatever the social memes suggest on the whole topic?
The experiences of children with ''past life'' memories are more prolific in Eastern Culture with religions which hold to reincarnation theories as opposed to Western Culture religions which do not.

As cultures from across the world merge in our present age, and the social memes begin to blend together into a world meme rather than the older memes developed in relatively isolated cultures those, ''memetic'' veils may be thinning and more and more the interchangeability of sexual life, once limited to either male or female, is becoming more a norm than before.

I think that there are basically two theories of reincarnation. One that we live each life as dictated by karmic law, each life unto it's own, from life to life with no real connection between them other than keeping that karmic balance balanced.

Another reincarnational theory is that life after life after life is geared to improvement and approaching, even slowly over many many life times, the Godhead. That all the lives lived are in some manner incarnational aspects of an ''inter-incarnational'' consciousness, one that spans all the physical incarnations of itself. Adding this concept to previously stated aspects of reincarnation theory along with Dawkins theory of social memes, which I have taken as ''the veil'',might indicate that the thinning of the ''veil'' is allowing for the interchangeability of sexual perceptions by an ''inter-incarnational'' consciousness might now be flowing more freely in present day incarnations.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

I have been formulating this thought myself over the years... My assumption is that the percentages of people with gender issues has been relatively constant over time (though definitely considering the effects of molecules in the environment on our development should never be forgotten). As has been said, our society is finally letting these people express themselves, so we are now becoming aware of a reality that has always existed - sexuality is a spectrum, our behaviors are spectrums, that we are always trying to make into dichotomies.

I think reincarnation is an excellent way to explain folks not feeling comfortable in their own skin, or being acutely interested or feeling "at home" in different cultures. This is all part of the philosophy that we have all been incarnating for trillions of years and have been in all relationships with one another at various times on thousands of worlds with millions of different forms, and that all of this should allow us to look into one another's eyes, regardless of species, race, religion, and see our selves, see all these relationships at once in the other person's eyes - to see yourself in every person's eyes - respect; re-spect; re-look; re-see.

This could explain a dissonance between one's biology and one's "mind". But I think it has also been shown that there are actual physical differences in the brains of people who identify as gay (and probably also differences for people who identify as a different sex, though I not aware of such a study while I do remember reading one about the brains of gay people). So, as we are sometimes aware through physical traits of some gay people (meaning subtle clues that lead you to not be surprised when that person "comes out"), there are real physical things going on as well as mental things going on.

As with everything, it is all an interplay of body and mind, yin and yang, ebbing and flowing... So in my world-view, reincarnation even meets Occam's Razor.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

I gave you my take, as that’s what you asked for. Any “claims” I may have made are purely off-the-top of the head musings buttressed with a lil bit of commonsense and a respectable intelligent quotient (at least that’s what they told me in junior high — that’s not a claim, but rather disinformation to make me feel better, or possibly, the truth?). So that’s that.

I haven’t researched the history of “gender dsyphoria”, so I can’t qualify any of my takes with respect to it being “politicized”, I can only share with you it’s prevalence is, with a doubt, higher today than 50 years ago (see: your assertion this is the case because of someone in Alaska knowing of a trans individual in Serbia because of social media).

Contrary to what you may have inferred from my clearly qualified (i.e. using the term “seems” and other qualifiers in my initial post) reply, the incidence of these ‘abnormal behaviors’ hasn’t been established relative to all of human history. Homosexuality (can be characterized as abnormal [not my personal inclination of its normalcy]) and pedophilia (surely an abnormal and immoral behavior) could be argued to have had the same prevalence and incidence at the beginning of history as it does today*. If this OP just “popped into your head”, there’s no way you can unequivocally state the incidence of these abnormal behaviors is the same, as you did below.

But if you research the history of such things, you'll realize that it has existed as long as recorded history. (The story of "Mulan" is a relevant example)

I agree the prevalence of said behaviors is higher, but unless you can source your assertion that the incidence of these behaviors is the same, you may want to edit your OP in suggesting this was something that haphazardly (my word, but is in essence the same as “popping into one’s head”) occurred to you, and clarify that you have indeed researched and studied this. If not, it stands to reason — based on an a priori take that just popped into my head — the incidence of these behaviors is not ‘new’, in-of-itself, but higher than any previous time in human history. Evidence of such is anecdotal, but that anecdotal evidence speaks for itself in simply having this discussion.

I couldn’t discern whether you disagree with the idea of social evolution occurring via means of “memes”, could you please clarify your take on Dawkins’ theory of memes? Your below quote was difficult to interpret, as we may actually agree, but I read it as, “social evolution via memes may be legit, but I (SlapMonkey) don’t buy it as a driving force of these abnormal behaviors”.

I don't share your claim that I don't agree with your "memes" theory of evolution of human behavior, at least not as a driving force for the consideration in my OP

Directly to your OP: No, I don’t buy reincarnation being a driving force for these abnormal behaviors. I am not married to the idea memes play an integral role in these abnormal behaviors, I honestly have never given it any thought, and social evolution via memes was my initial thought. Without a doubt, an interesting topic for discussion so props to you for bringing an articulate and well-thought out OP...currently, I’m working hard at not working...my musing on transgenderism beats life-cycle analysis 95% of the time. Thanks for the mental floss this AM.

*I used homosexuality and pedophilia as examples of “abnormal behaviors”, but I am not making a claim that either are the end-all-be-all of what constitutes or serve as abnormal — just making use of “off the top of my head” thoughts concerning your OP. Nor am I making any ‘value judgments’ concerning said examples.





ETA: With respect to our “approaches” (reincarnation versus social evolution via memes?), I’m unclear as to what approach you’re coming from and what approach you believe I’m coming from, can you elucidate the two and the difference? I’m simply asserting that the incidence of these behaviors is higher than it has ever been and I, off-the-top, suggested memes are partly responsible. The increased prevalence is surely, in large part, due to social evolution/memes — you said so yourself in relaying the idea its more widely-known due to Alaskans using social media to know of a trans-Serbian (see what I did there? Lol).

we'll differ on our opinions as to whether or not gender dysphoria is a "'new' phenomenon," so that means that we disagree with each other's approach.

a reply to: BeefNoMeat

maybe the relatively recent appearances of gender issues are part of an evolution and recycling of more "recent" souls.
society evolves....in would only makes sense that its evolution is accounted for in reincarnation.

eta: as opposed to other (including psychological) issues that have been more rooted in our past selves.

a reply to: PolyCottonBlend

So evolution occurring vis-a-vie reincarnation? An intermingling of the two? Are you saying social evolution occurs during reincarnation, moreover, social evolution occurs outside the mechanism of biological evolution, which is scientifically-accepted as occurring via means of DNA?

Where do more “recent” souls originate from? Are there such things as “new” souls, or is there a fixed number of souls from time immemorial that are simply “recycled”?

a reply to: Skywatcher2011

Cure them? or repress them? depends on ones perspective i suppose

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
a reply to: SlapMonkey

Adding , as Beefnomeat does, Dawkin's and social memes to this mix is interesting. Holding with that general reincarnation theory above, might the ''veil'' be, at least to some degree, the strength of whatever the social memes suggest on the whole topic?

Sure, it might be--I never discounted the effects of external influences on how potential memories or "coding" from past lives are either cultivated or strangled off. In fact, I mention in this thread that I believe that the way that families and societies deal with children can either cause the loss of past-life memories or allow them to persist.

As humans, we are never immune to the influences of external entities, be they human or otherwise.

The experiences of children with ''past life'' memories are more prolific in Eastern Culture with religions which hold to reincarnation theories as opposed to Western Culture religions which do not.

As cultures from across the world merge in our present age, and the social memes begin to blend together into a world meme rather than the older memes developed in relatively isolated cultures those, ''memetic'' veils may be thinning and more and more the interchangeability of sexual life, once limited to either male or female, is becoming more a norm than before.

Sure, that's a possibility, and also speaks to the way that I discussed the way that technology links us altogether and makes it seem like there are more instances of things like Gender Dysphoria, where in reality, it may still be proportional to historic trends, we just hear about them more and they are more openly discussed and accepted (which means many who would have been in the closet about it are open now, too).

But, yes, global influence could be having an effect on keeping the veil thin, or maybe even reversing the calcification of the veil in some people.

Again, this is all theoretical.

As for the two types of reincarnation theories--maybe neither is correct?

originally posted by: BeefNoMeat
a reply to: SlapMonkey

I gave you my take, as that’s what you asked for.

And I appreciate the time and comments--if you inferred something different, then I must not have been clear, but I wasn't being confrontational, just trying to acknowledge that we seem to have different conclusions.

I haven’t researched the history of “gender dsyphoria”, so I can’t qualify any of my takes with respect to it being “politicized”, I can only share with you it’s prevalence is, with a doubt, higher today than 50 years ago.

....

Contrary to what you may have inferred from my clearly qualified ... reply, the incidence of these ‘abnormal behaviors’ hasn’t been established relative to all of human history.

I feel like you're contradicting yourself, here. I mean, I get that you're talking five decades in one without-a-doubt claim, but then you acknowledge that there is no established quantification of these behaviors for all of human history.

My point is that, proportionately speaking, I would be willing to bet that the same amounts existed (I never claimed that they definitely did) throughout recorded history--the problem is that, if a behavior is not socially acceptable, people tend to keep the behavior 'in the closet,' so statistics on the matter would most likely be unreliable anyhow.

In any event, this is something that I'm just betting on--it doesn't mean that I'm 100% correct at all. Of course I can't source my assertion on this matter, but if you look at, say, the homosexual behavior of the Greco-Roman era and how openly it was accepted (to include pedophilia), and then how it fell off the radar for a long time, and now homosexuality (minus the pedophilia) is relatively accepted again, I'm willing to bet that those who were gay didn't suddenly stop being gay--I think the behavior became less publicized, and therefore closeted up for a while.

But homosexuals were still around, and I'd argue in as high a number, just not as openly. That's where I'm coming from--but like I said, I could be wrong.

I couldn’t discern whether you disagree with the idea of social evolution occurring via means of “memes”, could you please clarify your take on Dawkins’ theory of memes? Your below quote was difficult to interpret, as we may actually agree, but I read it as, “social evolution via memes may be legit, but I (SlapMonkey) don’t buy it as a driving force of these abnormal behaviors”.

You're close--it's a legit theory, but I don't necessarily think that it's the only driver, and if my reincarnation theory is something even worth considering, I think that the "meme" theory could either aid or hinder in the cultivation or suppression of the reincarnated "coding" that occurred at conception.

I fully believe that some people do things that they otherwise wouldn't do because of their cultural norms and beliefs, but when it comes to true Gender Dysphoria, which is what I'm focused on, I don't see it as a behavior driven by external forces; the ability to be open about it, though, is a reflection of one's culture and external influences.

I'll put it this way, if it helps: I don't see Gender Dysphoria like, say, racism, where it is a learned behavior. On the contrary, though, I think that some people unlearn that quality in the formative toddler years if it was present at birth, and that can be a result of cultural memes.

I don't know if I'm helping you understand any better--like I said, this is not a graduate thesis or anything, it's just an idea that I'm considering, mostly for the sake of the what-if mental exercise.

No, I don’t buy reincarnation being a driving force for these abnormal behaviors. I am not married to the idea memes play an integral role in these abnormal behaviors, I honestly have never given it any thought, and social evolution via memes was my initial thought. Without a doubt, an interesting topic for discussion so props to you for bringing an articulate and well-thought out OP...currently, I’m working hard at not working...my musing on transgenderism beats life-cycle analysis 95% of the time. Thanks for the mental floss this AM.

I, too, am not married to the thoughts in my OP, but I do find the possibility exceptionally interesting, if for nothing more than how it treats the life force/consciousness/soul.

Again, I hope that I helped clear things up.

originally posted by: BeefNoMeat
a reply to: PolyCottonBlend


Where do more “recent” souls originate from? Are there such things as “new” souls, or is there a fixed number of souls from time immemorial that are simply “recycled”?

This is a question that I keep asking myself. I mean, population is ever-increasing, it seems, so one would think that there wouldn't be enough consciousness fragments (as I'm calling them) to come together to animate a new living being at some point.

Or, maybe like all of the elements in the universe, our consciousness particles are passing from galaxy to galaxy after being created during whatever process birthed the universe (or stars, or solar systems, or black holes, or whatever), and there is a relatively infinite amount of puzzle pieces that fit together to create new puzzles.

Hell, maybe that's the "missing mass" in the universe for which we cannot account.

Again, just active thinking, not married to much, if any, of it.

originally posted by: Skywatcher2011

There are some drugs out there that cure mental illnesses.

No, they treat mental illnesses.

Take the drugs away, the illnesses come back.

That, sir or madam, is not a cure.