Florida dad fires gun to stop 17-year-old daughter's attempted kidnappers

a reply to: Tardacus


Agreed

I still wish we knew whether he missed intentionally. Warning shots/shooting to wound (not to kill) is just asking for legal trouble. If you're truly justified in using deadly force, then your survival depends on your ability to apply lethal force decisively to end the fight and put the threat(s) down.

Threat of force (like warning shots) or lethal-force-to-wound puts the defender not just in legal jeopardy, but creates a real possibility the attacker will exploit the situation and kill the defender.

For non-deadly force encounters, there are a myriad of LTL tools available to Citizens which LE uses on a frequent basis. Tasers (real Taser brand, not stun guns), OC/CS spray (either/or, but CS is easier to cross contaminate yourself and others) or ASP batons are all good choices. Some other options require a lot more training to use effectively, including kubatons and slapjacks.

Regardless, empty handed skills are highly useful for up close and personal attacks (which most will be). Commonly during an ambush at less than 21ft (see "Tueller drill"), empty handed skills will be all you have until you create enough distance to access your force multiplier and end the fight.

a reply to: JBurns

From your OP:

Great news, looks like another tragedy averted thanks to an armed Citizen.

You get no arguments from me.

I am not an American, but you have the legal right, under your US Consitution's 2nd Amendment, to bear arms. And it matters not one iota what us "furriners" think. This is your right!

Every parent has the absolute right to protect their children. Heck, it's not just a right, it's our nature. If I had your rights to bear arms, I'd darned well be armed. To protect my family!

I have thought long and hard about this and I have come to the conclusion that the only people who can demand any change to the 2nd amendment are American citizens. Not me, not some Canadian or European politician. It is for Americans ONLY to decide!

And the fact is, if the government there tries to take away your right to bear arms, then only criminals will have the guns. And that is insane.

This man did only what he needed to do to protect his daughter from Lord only knows what horrors. I salute him, and hope his daughter will stay safe in his care.

Mike

originally posted by: Asktheanimals
I don't care about the age of the perps, if they're ready to kidnap people they're ready to take a bullet for the cause.

Totally agree. Kindnap means stealing a human being: taking them against their will. That is just so utterly wrong, and if someone does it, they deserve whatever grief they get.

If I am around and anyone goes after my kids or grandkids, then woe betide them. And that is a given, no matter where I live, because that is the way every parent thinks!

I'm not some keyboard kiddy internet warrior talking from Mommy's basement. This is me, over 60 and a parent and grandparent. And I am not frigging around. I will fight for my kids, like any parent will.

And the US 2nd amendment says Americans have the right to bear arms. You have that right, full stop. If some foreigners don't like it, too bad, how sad. Just ignore them. It's your right! Do not let ANYONE take it away from you!

So crims: you want to push your luck? You're idiots and you will get only what you darned well deserve.

a reply to: JustMike


Thanks for the reply Mike

I feel fortunate to have such a right when so many people in other countries are forced to trust their safety to their governments. Although some places in the world don't have as much violence as others, I believe all people in the world should have the right to arm themselves in defense of their families and others, and handling specific incidents like this attempted kidnapping.

I agree also agree with not interfering with internal issues of other nations (like the second amendment). During the Brexit campaign, as an example, I felt that all the American citizens trying to push for the Brexit vote were out of line a bit also. It isn't the end of the world of course (everyone has an opinion, and a dozen ideas to improve this or that), but when it comes to important domestic issues of other nations, I always felt OK voicing my opinion but never tried to influence anyone's personal judgment because I figured the people of that country themselves knew what they needed best. I suppose I feel that way with the second amendment (and the whole bill of rights really), but I always appreciate hearing what others have to say and really appreciate your input as well

I'd also say he did the right thing here. There is no bond stronger than family, and it is always incredible to hear stories that end up working out for the intended victims. Someone who engaged potentially armed intruders to protect their family is in my opinion one definition of a hero.

Thanks again for the reply Mike, take care.

JB

originally posted by: Asktheanimals
I don't care about the age of the perps, if they're ready to kidnap people they're ready to take a bullet for the cause.

I am not sure where the kidnapping part comes into it. Seems to be embellishment to me.

This is why my 65 pound Staffy/lab/bulldog +1 other awaiting DNA results mixes are inside house dogs. While I do own guns and am more than willing to employ deadly force if warranted, it will always be a last resort. Intruders stupid enough to engage my dogs or worse, kill them to get to wife or I, will be quite surprised when they have multiple firearms levelled at them while we call the police. Their choice to leave or engage at that point.

Made me kind of sad to read “dogs barking”, then see shots had to be fired but dogs didn’t engage.

a reply to: JBurns
You have this right, and I think it is essential for you, as Americans, to preserve that right. As it it is enshrined in your US Constitution, it is no simple process to take it away from you. The laws for changing your Constitution (and I am capitalizing it out of respect) are very specific and any breach of it is challengeable before the SCOTUS. And should be challenged!

Opinions are fine and we should welcome them, because they can help us think. But demands? No. I do not see any way that I, as a foreigner, have any right to demand that you Americans change any of your laws. I don't, to be blunt about it. So, I appreciate your comments about BREXIT. I was born in the UK and am not happy with the outcome of the vote, but that is what the majority voted for, so I will just have to deal with it. "Demos kratos" (People power) works on that basis.

Here, from your OP, we have a case of a man who used a firearm to try and prevent criminals from harming his family. In my opinion, he was using his rights under your laws, and preventing a far worse crime from being committed.

If anyone has a problem with this -- I mean, no-one was hurt or died -- I cannot fathom their thinking. He didn't have minutes to call 911 and wait for police to arrive (and I respect police; my father was a police officer), he had seconds to react and save his daughter.

He did what any man or woman would do to save their child, if they had the legal right to use a firearm -- as he did.

And for me, that is what the 2nd amendment boils down to. It's about protection. Of country, of state, of town, of home. Of family.

I can find no fault in his actions.

And if he'd shot a perp? They made their choices and committed a serious crime. The outcome was on their heads, not his. End of story, IMO.

a reply to: JBurns

This:

Someone who engaged potentially armed intruders to protect their family is in my opinion one definition of a hero.

Beyond question JBurns, though maybe the Dad won't see it that way. For him, it was parental love and protection. The concept of "hero" would not have even entered his head. He saw a threat to his family and then, all bets were off.

In my opinion, any parent should have the right to use any force necessary to protect their children.

No ifs or buts and no exceptions. Any force to protect your kids is appropriate, IMO.

a reply to: JustMike

So true I couldn't agree more.

I also can't believe we live an age where attacks against children are commonplace. I remember a time in the not so distant past when even criminals (mostly) had good enough morals to at least not attack children

a reply to: JBurns

hey - lets quote you on that :

. The teens reportedly believed the family to be wealthy, and were attempting to break in through the garage when he fired 3 shots, which scared the intruders off scurrying.

ok - 3 shots fired

Either way, a guy with a gun stopped a robbery/kidnapping/possibly murder without even firing a shot. That part is impressive.

how many shots fired ????????????????

that sir is your lack of internal consistency

a reply to: ignorant_ape


Ah, I meant to say

"stopped the incident without shooting anyone."

I did mistakenly said the former. However, after reading the article my intent is still very clear. Your focus on semantics and grammar is designed to detract from the overall fact that yet another armed Citizen stopped a group of heinous criminals from realizing its goal of kidnapping and terror (robbery, ransom, hostages, etc).

My original point stands, despite a minor grammatical error: A good guy with a gun saved the day, once again (as usual).

But thank you, sincerely, for pointing out that inaccuracy. I strive to convey information factually, and appreciate feedback on that as always.

a reply to: sligtlyskeptical

From the Okaloosa County sheriffs office
www.facebook.com...

"Four teens armed with a knife, guns and a roll of tape planned to kidnap and rob members of a Baker family last night, but their plot didn’t go as planned and now all four are in custody. Inside their SUV deputies also found latex gloves, facial masks and dark clothing.
The Okaloosa County Sheriff’s Office responded around 10:30 p.m. to a call of a possible home invasion robbery in progress at a home on Preservation Path.
The 51-year old homeowner says his 17-year old daughter had called him to tell him that someone had blocked the road to their house with barrels. Instead of getting out of her car she drove around them. A short time later her father heard his dogs barking and saw his front motion-activated flood lights come on. He also heard what sounded like his car door closing and went to get his gun. After spotting some individuals trying to force their way into his garage, he fired three shots and the intruders fled into the woods. He later learned they had unscrewed some of his security lights.
An alert neighbor who saw a suspicious car near her house around the same timeframe quickly called in a description of the vehicle to deputies, who spotted the 2016 White Jeep Liberty on Highway 4 and made a felony traffic stop.
Inside the car they found 19-year old Keilon Johnson, 17-year old Austin French, 16-year old Tyree Johnson, and 15-year old Kamauri Horn, all of Crestview.
The OCSO investigation revealed the teens had concocted a plan to kidnap the teenage daughter. The goal was to first force her out of her car by blocking the road with barrels and garbage cans. (However their intended victim drove around the barrels and kept going.) They then planned to head to her house, confront and subdue her father - who they believed to be wealthy - and rob the home.
Instead all four defendants are now charged with attempted kidnapping and attempted home invasion robbery. 19-year old Keilon Johnson was booked into the Okaloosa County Jail. The other defendants were transferred to a Department of Juvenile Justice facility."