North Korea Says Diplomacy is Over - Nuclear War May Start at Any Moment.

originally posted by: 200Plus

originally posted by: In4ormant
foreplay is for the inexperienced.

The only question Trump should be asking at this hour is "which option saves the lives of the most Americans and our allies?".

That would be assassination. If there's a law against it, too bad. Doesn't guarantee that a war will be avoided, but it's a good start that may avoid one.

originally posted by: whywhynot

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: whywhynot

originally posted by: introvert
Let Kim do whatever he damn well pleases. He's only trying to put his country in a position to where they wont be messed with by the Western powers.

We don't need to take any action unless we have 100% certainty that they are going to act on their threats.

What would you describe as 100% certainly. What would your redline be?

That is a hard line to draw as I am not in a position to know their exact capabilities and intent.

Speak in non tech terms.

Do you strike when: a. They demonstrate nuclear capability. Or b. When the missiles are ready to launch and Kim say they will launch at any moment. Or c. When the missiles are in flight. Or d. Once they have landed and killed millions.

Hmmm

This is such a complicated issue that you cannot speak in "non tech" terms. There are many other nuances to this issue that could mean the difference between cautious patience and direct action.

originally posted by: Liquesence
a reply to: dianajune

To repeat myself:

If your neighbor said he was going to shoot you, does that give you the right to go to his house and shoot him first?

If I can add a few additional parameters to your scenario:
1. He's been walking around in his yard shooting at random things with a shotgun.
2. You know he's paranoid, and not really completely sane.
3. You're standing directly across the fence from him.
4. He's pointing his shotgun at you.

I would probably try to shoot him first. Unfortunately, I would probably get hit by some buckshot myself.

Having said that, I'm not advocating for any kind of preemptive action against NK. This is a horrible situation that should never have been allowed to get this far.

China and Russia have NK right on their borders. They really need to take the lead in this. Any kind of nuclear explosion on the Korean Peninsula is going to negatively affect them. And given Lil' Rocket Man's instability, they can't be sure that at some point he won't turn on them.

-dex



-dex

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: incoserv

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: carewemust

The next logical step is to remove Trump from the whitehouse, if not put Kim and Trump in a boxing ring wearing sumo suits and let them flab it out.

Yeah! Let's get Obama back in and just give Kim some more money to appease him and shut him up for a few more years.

You people are unreal, just go watch some more Charles Bronson movies and fantasise about taking out bad guys

Better yet they need to understand that America might be the bad guy

a reply to: introvert

the thing is that NK knows they are not breaking any nuclear treaties, nor can another nation tell them what they can or cannot pursue defensively.

if we are to attack a country based solely on the fact that they have a nuclear weapon, why don't we start with Russia or China...
having a nuke doesn't mean you should be destroyed...
i don't recall the last time NK had a military foot on another soil.
besides border squabble with the south, which is common with most countries with border 'dilemmas', nk hasn't done anything to indicate they would bomb another country let alone the US

originally posted by: odzeandennz

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: dianajune

originally posted by: Liquesence
a reply to: dianajune

And you undoubtedly know that an attack on the US wold occur otherwise?

Point remains: war to prevent war?

Sounds like warmongering.

Nope. I call it protecting one's country from an immediate threat.

Point is: How do you know the threat is immediate?

you won't get a rational response.

you're talking to a mentalist who wants to 'strike' another country but not entirely sure why...

Why? That is not without historical clarification. Not to mention that no dumbass can fire delivery systems here and there and expect others to hold some dumbass philosophical grounds for not taking action. The fact that NK would even attempt intimidation with this actions demonstrates how sponge weak we really are even after demonstrating our flex over the last 20 years. Even american flap is not backed up by troop build up, trips to SK ect. Like SK is Red Headed step child as Chann would say.

a reply to: 200Plus

If my neighbor told everyone in town he was going to kill me, then came out in the yard and fired a few rounds over my other neighbors house, then pointed a gun at me? I would be willing to take that shooting to court actually.

Unless he came onto your property or unless your were in public when he pointed a gun at you and you defended yourself, you would likely lose.

Take it to court. I'll watch.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: Liquesence

Who has said the US should glass the NorKs aside from histrionic folks who seem willing to sit and wait for Kim to launch at us? We possess the conventional armaments needed to efficiently render North Korea uninhabitable... and we should have used them in that capacity yesterday.

Burdman30ott6, do you think that North Korea would go back to minding their own business, if the U.S./allies stopped flexing our muscle in his neighborhood, and let him build his nuke toys, like other nations (including the U.S.) have done for several decades now?

originally posted by: odzeandennz
a reply to: introvert

the thing is that NK knows they are not breaking any nuclear treaties, nor can another nation tell them what they can or cannot pursue defensively.

if we are to attack a country based solely on the fact that they have a nuclear weapon, why don't we start with Russia or China...
having a nuke doesn't mean you should be destroyed...
i don't recall the last time NK had a military foot on another soil.
besides border squabble with the south, which is common with most countries with border 'dilemmas', nk hasn't done anything to indicate they would bomb another country let alone the US

And NK knows we do not invade nations that have nukes.

Again, MAD theory in play.

Let's also not forget that they are a sovereign nation, as your posts hints to. If we are to believe in borders and an individual nation's right to sovereignty, we should not be pushing for war with NK.

a reply to: Liquesence

You are just spinning. You know very well that North Korea doesn’t accept international law that it doesn’t like.

You cannot fight a guy under the Marquess of Queensberry rules if your opponent doesn’t recognize it.

originally posted by: odzeandennz
a reply to: introvert

the thing is that NK knows they are not breaking any nuclear treaties, nor can another nation tell them what they can or cannot pursue defensively.

if we are to attack a country based solely on the fact that they have a nuclear weapon, why don't we start with Russia or China...
having a nuke doesn't mean you should be destroyed...

If you think that is all its about you should remove yourself from the discussion or someone that knows what they are talking about may take you for a fool.

a reply to: DexterRiley

3. You're standing directly across the fence from him.
4. He's pointing his shotgun at you.

In your scenario he's right across the fence. NK is not right across the fence. SK is. Japan is. Etc.

More appropriate would be your neighbor calling you or sending you messages, and shooting his gun in your general direction.

originally posted by: Liquesence
a reply to: carewemust

That's why I augmented the O.P. with a Fox News report as well.

Because Fox is "real" news?

Fox News cited the name of the Ambassador who stated that Nuclear War could occur at any moment now.

That's WAY MORE CREDIBLE than the CNN story which cited "anonymous sources", in its typical Fake News style.

a reply to: whywhynot

A child pointing a pistol at police will likely be shot.

Toy or real will be discovered when it is safe to do so.

If your neighbour is a headcase and threatens to kill your family by bulldozing your house ... then takes delivery of a shiny new bulldozer - should you worry ?

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: odzeandennz
a reply to: introvert

the thing is that NK knows they are not breaking any nuclear treaties, nor can another nation tell them what they can or cannot pursue defensively.

if we are to attack a country based solely on the fact that they have a nuclear weapon, why don't we start with Russia or China...
having a nuke doesn't mean you should be destroyed...
i don't recall the last time NK had a military foot on another soil.
besides border squabble with the south, which is common with most countries with border 'dilemmas', nk hasn't done anything to indicate they would bomb another country let alone the US

And NK knows we do not invade nations that have nukes.

Again, MAD theory in play.

Let's also not forget that they are a sovereign nation, as your posts hints to. If we are to believe in borders and an individual nation's right to sovereignty, we should not be pushing for war with NK.

History is filled with sovereign nations attacking other sovereign countries. Some for the right reasons and many for the wrong reasons.

I hope that Trump protects all of us.

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: 200Plus

originally posted by: In4ormant
foreplay is for the inexperienced.

The only question Trump should be asking at this hour is "which option saves the lives of the most Americans and our allies?".

That would be assassination. If there's a law against it, too bad. Doesn't guarantee that a war will be avoided, but it's a good start that may avoid one.

A generation of americans brought up without honor. Sponge weak. Your women act more like men than most men. Generation of really weak puzzies.

originally posted by: Timely
a reply to: whywhynot

A child pointing a pistol at police will likely be shot.

Toy or real will be discovered when it is safe to do so.

If your neighbour is a headcase and threatens to kill your family by bulldozing your house ... then takes delivery of a shiny new bulldozer - should you worry ?

What is your point?

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: introvert
Let Kim do whatever he damn well pleases. He's only trying to put his country in a position to where they wont be messed with by the Western powers.

We don't need to take any action unless we have 100% certainty that they are going to act on their threats.

That's the way I feel too. From the restraint we've shown, I believe that President Trump and his generals feel the same way.

I wish Trump's language and rhetoric matched those feelings.

Then, Trump would be more like Obama. Hillary lost because she was too much like Obama. Trump is matching Kim Jong in the War of Words. That's his style. Not being a push-over is one reason why he was elected.

a reply to: whywhynot

You are just spinning.

Hardly.

You know very well that North Korea doesn’t accept international law that it doesn’t like.

Neither does the US. Mostly.

You cannot fight a guy under the Marquess of Queensberry rules if your opponent doesn’t recognize it.

You can't negate the rules you have agreed to yourself just because your opponent doesn't recognize them or you're no better than he.

originally posted by: whywhynot

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: odzeandennz
a reply to: introvert

the thing is that NK knows they are not breaking any nuclear treaties, nor can another nation tell them what they can or cannot pursue defensively.

if we are to attack a country based solely on the fact that they have a nuclear weapon, why don't we start with Russia or China...
having a nuke doesn't mean you should be destroyed...
i don't recall the last time NK had a military foot on another soil.
besides border squabble with the south, which is common with most countries with border 'dilemmas', nk hasn't done anything to indicate they would bomb another country let alone the US

And NK knows we do not invade nations that have nukes.

Again, MAD theory in play.

Let's also not forget that they are a sovereign nation, as your posts hints to. If we are to believe in borders and an individual nation's right to sovereignty, we should not be pushing for war with NK.

History is filled with sovereign nations attacking other sovereign countries. Some for the right reasons and many for the wrong reasons.

I hope that Trump protects all of us.

As do I. I hope Trump protects us when a real threat presents itself.

NK is not a threat at this point and I am not convinced their goal is to create a nuclear arsenal in order to strike the US.

To me, all signs point to them wanting to have a nuclear detterant to keep the US in line.