Trump signs order to eliminate ACA insurance rules, undermine marketplaces

originally posted by: spiritualzombie
a reply to: projectvxn

Big difference between the limited VA vs all hospitals all doctors in all states going Single Payer.

They won't do it, unless they avoid taking a pay cut. Doctors and Hospitals squeal 911! every time Trump utters that he might kill the Cost Sharing Subsidy payments. And that's peanuts, compared to their overall revenue.

a reply to: projectvxn

No one is talking about free. I’m talking about a better deal where you actually get the care you’re paying for rather than paying into a for-profit system designed to find ways to deny you care and send you large bills.

I’m talking about a better healthcare system and a better deal for the American people.

I understand why republican politicians suck the D of insurance companies. But why are you?

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: spiritualzombie
a reply to: projectvxn

Big difference between the limited VA vs all hospitals all doctors in all states going Single Payer.

They won't do it, unless they avoid taking a pay cut. Doctors and Hospitals squeal 911! every time Trump utters that he might kill the Cost Sharing Subsidy payments. And that's peanuts, compared to their overall revenue.

More fear mongering. They absolutely will all do it because they all still get paid to provide healthcare. What people won’t have is a for-profit middleman driving costs for consumers higher while finding ways to take their money and still leave them with giant bills.

originally posted by: spiritualzombie
Pay me $400 a month and I'll buy your groceries... with a few stipulations. Anytime you call me, I'm going to charge you $10. And none of the money you pay me goes toward your actually groceries. I'll get the groceries, and then tell you how much I'll cover... let's say... generally 60-75%. So, $400 a month, you pay 25-40% for the groceries, and if you ever talk to me, you pay extra. And if you go to a different store without checking with me first, you pay for it all. Oh and we haven't even talked deductible... so in addition to the $400 a month you agree to pay me, you'll also need to pay the first $2000 in groceries yourself.

And if you're wondering if my costs are really that high to require all this? No, of course not, I'm just here to make a profit.

I haven't agreed with you much in this thread. But I do here.

Folks the reality is this:

Single payer is NEVER going to work in an economy that is actually 50 economies. Because I can't trust this government to do ANYTHING right. So far, the only thing they have done right (for all the wrong reasons) is continue to reinforce that belief.

ALSO

If the current insurance/managed care system is not reformed or outright scrapped, the above statement by spiritualzombie will continue to grow into a far more dangerous problem.

We've had a terrible system in place since Lyndon Johnson's managed care BS. Since then we've just piled more and more garbage legislation on top of it, culminating in ACA.

The system needs to be scrapped entirely. The notion that this entrapment by government and insurance company collusion is somehow fair play or free market is laughable. We don't have any choices.

You can tell the system is broken and corrupt when both parties agree not to fix it. ACA was a windfall for them and just another medical industry inflation driver/insurance industry bailout we have to pay for indefinitely. How the hell any self-respecting liberal or conservative could actually ARGUE FOR ACA(or anything we've done the last 50 years) just because their gang colors are doing it, is beyond my comprehension.

We're letting political religion make policy for us instead of having policy discussions. I won't do it anymore.

We're discussing football players antics and the First Lady's shoes, but not bother to address the health care bomb about to blow up in our faces. The debt bomb about to blow up in our faces. The ACTUAL bombs about to blow up in our faces.

a reply to: spiritualzombie

I understand why republican politicians suck the D of insurance companies. But why are you?

Do not EVER speak to me like this again.

a reply to: projectvxn

I’m happy we can agree on anything. All I want is a better healthcare system that doesn’t prey on the sick and poor and that actually provides the care people expect when they’re paying in.

Republican or Democrat or Independent... whoever comes up with the winning plan will go down in history. As of now Obama got the closest but lack of public option was its mortal wound.

Also people often compare the cost of premiums to cost of taxes in single payer system. That’s a false comparison. Single payer is all inclusive. So compare the tax to the premiums + deductible + co-pays + medical bills + pharmacy. That’s what a single payer system aims to solve. No more of those extra bills. You get the healthcare you need and no one loses their house for it.

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: spiritualzombie

I understand why republican politicians suck the D of insurance companies. But why are you?

Do not EVER speak to me like this again.

It's a legit question. Republican politicians are beholden to the health insurance giants. You are not. I understand why they suck the D. So explain, you're smart enough to see that insurance companies are raping people for profits while finding ways to deny them care--- why do you cheer that system on? If you want it all scrapped -- what would you see in it's place?

a reply to: spiritualzombie

Except the nation as a whole.

We're 20 trillion in debt and our only option is more inflation.

I think the federal government needs to back the hell away from tampering with the economy altogether.

Reality says that you and I can go back and fourth on truly beneficial ideas, but the people who actually make laws don't give a # about that. They only care about being well compensated for selling policy to the highest bidder.

Maybe step one shouldn't even be health care reform at all, but electing a group of people we might actually trust to do it right.

a reply to: projectvxn

I agree but right now if you look at the different party audiences... you have the left wing socialists wanting universal health care, and you have the democrats feeling the pressure to move in that direction, and Obama starting that fight with his original vision for Obamacare.... the left is all set for all kinds of universal healthcare.

But the republican audience is still spewing b.s. freedom for the insurance companies. The party needs you guys screaming F the insurance companies. They need their base saying "no, we want something better" And insurance companies are never going to provide better while they're still allowed to be for-profit. They will always have a business model built on denying coverage for profits.

The left is ready to move forward regardless of party. The right needs to leave party colors behind and be ready to move forward also.

Trump is a piece of sh*t, but he's a billionaire and he loves to fight. He also wants to be loved by everyone. He should take this fight on. He's the only republican ready to fight his own party. He should take the fight on, pull in Bernie Sanders endorsement, and push like crazy for universal healthcare. Something undeniable good and the best. He has nothing to lose and huge history victories to gain... But instead he chooses to sit on his toilet and tweet insults to football players and celebrities. What a waste. He should get in this fight andif he wins universal healthcare for the people, the history books will be forced to be kind... and he'll win the respect of people who would hate to respect him.

I personally don't understand how a crazy billionaire ego maniac like him can resist that huge win.

a reply to: spiritualzombie

why do you cheer that system on?

I don't and never have.

Being against ACA does not mean I'm for the crap spun up by both parties for the last 5 decades.

If you want it all scrapped -- what would you see in it's place?

Like any other business, allow doctors and hospitals to succeed on their own. To compete for the dollars of their patients directly instead of forcing patients to compete for better care. Does a needle cost the hospital 90 bucks? Of course not. But if it were not for the insurance company the cost of that needle would reflect in the price. The cost of the needle used, the cost of the needle that replaces it, the cost for the service, so forth and so on. That's what should be in the price analysis, not how much money needs to be paid to the insurance company before the cost of that needle is covered. The whole thing is a middle man marketing scheme and it should be illegal because it drives inflation and destroys the buying power of the customer. Insurance companies are the worst thing to ever happen to the medical field.

a reply to: projectvxn

I agree with all that except for one thing. It's people's lives. A system where people look at the cost and choose to die rather than risk bankrupting their family is a failed system.

And other countries can do it. Maybe we're just weak p*ssies here who can't get it done. or maybe it's just Republicans who are the p*ssies too scared to think big... but on the subject of healthcare and people's lives, their kids, their parents... we can choose to axe out the middle man, and instead of a premium you pay a tax, and that tax covers everything including meds and surgeries and doctors visits and treatments--- all of it. That's the win.

The Unlimited Plan. I don't want to pay for minutes, and per text message, or per gig of data. One plan, one tax and we're covered. That's the win. That's the best deal.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Ok so tell me when we voted this new law in?we didn't so therefore it was a socialist move not unlike the rest of Obama admin with their gender bender rules,the taxpayers were not given a choice,why don't liberals understand laws?

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: spiritualzombie

why do you cheer that system on?

If you want it all scrapped -- what would you see in it's place?

Insurance companies are the worst thing to ever happen to the medical field.

I never thought I would agree with you on something....

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Not much to undermine

a reply to: Krazysh0t

In 2016 a federal court ruled the payments to the insurance companies were unconstitutional. When obamacare came into existence he asked Congress for funds to offset insurance company losses. Congress said no and instead Obama used an executive order to fund it.

The court ruled it unconstitutional because Congress controls the purse strings and not the President.

In this matter Trump complied with the federal court ruling. Obamacare was undermined by Democrats and Obama - not trump.

a reply to: Xcathdra

You're slightly misunderstanding the effects and writings of the ruling. The judge didn't immediately demand that the Obama administration stop these payments, she gave them 60 days to appeal and to keep making those payments. The ultimate decision wasn't to come until the appeal made its way through the courts. So...really, the judge gave the administration the option of continuing the payments so long as they continued to appeal her decision.

Trump just decided to stop the appeal process which effectively ended the ability of the government to legally subsidize the insurance companies despite the ACA explicitly stating the insurance companies must spend this money on the poor. So your argument that, 'well, the judge said it's illegal so it had to stop' doesn't jive with what the judge ruled.

In the bigger picture you've got the president saying, 'Obamacare is failing, nothing we can do.' At the same time he's making these decisions that purposefully hamstring the law and start crushing the people who depend on it the most first. Right now, the poor are getting screwed. Next is the middle-class. Once the middle-class gets decimated by Trump's attempts to unravel the law (right around the 2018 general election) he's probably hoping congress will get its 'refresh' of conservatives who are more than willing to overturn the law once and for all.

No matter what happens, Trump is going to EO his way out of Obamacare with the hope that it hurts enough people that they vote for Republicans sympathetic to Trump in the next election. 'Look how bad Obamacare has gotten, you need to elect conservatives to help me end this!'

a reply to: knoxie

My family had an out of state association health plan in 2004. It was a little cheaper than the alternatives but we dropped it after 3 months because it basically covered nothing. These types of plans were always around before Obamacare and they sucked so bad that it forced Obamacare into existence. These things are all hype and no substance. Will some companies offer them and have some people sign up for them? Yes. But it will be a small amount of people and they will soon realize what a piece of crap the plan is.

BTW insurance companies are allowed to offer multi state plans under Obamacare, turns out that the insurers and the states have no interest in doing so. In a year it will be proven that this executive order will have had almost zero effect. Only people that will join these plans are those that have zero comprehension of what the plan will give you. They are just like the dental plans that offer max $1,000 a year of care and the total premiums are about $800 per year. Nothing but rip off products. I guess you could liken them to getting educated at Trump University. You all are Trumps' suckers.

Joy Reid says Trump is engaging in extortion, lol.
Stopping an illegal practice and forcing the Dems to act on a new health care plan sounds to me like beating Washington at it's own game. Seems Joy doesn't like losing.

a reply to: links234

Me thinks you missed the part where the judge said the payments were never authorized by Congress and because of that were unconstitutional. Only Congress can appropriate funds and in this case Obama ignored Congress when they first shot it down by using an EO.

Trump is complying with a federal court ruling.