Trump signs order to eliminate ACA insurance rules, undermine marketplaces

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
Imagine, a system where healthy people aren't financially penalized for their healthy choices and lifestyles!

Jesus, I'd applaud this if i could.

In a world where we live and die by our choices, why does making good choices now turn into a penalty? How is that good for America, when we have institutionalized the rewarding of bad choices and hte punishing of good choices?

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: network dude

Well if you read the article, it goes into it, but I know you won't so I'll resummarize here. The problem is that adding plans that aren't ACA compliant will send healthy people to them because they are cheaper. This causes a death spiral in the ACA plans as only sick people are left in that pool. So prices increase drastically. Then, ultimately, we are in the same situation we were in from 2000 - 2009. With health insurance prices rising exponentially from year to year and covering less and less health issues.

Yet my family's health coverage during that span was quite affordable, skyrocketing in price only after the ACA kicked in, and it covered a hell of a lot more than it presently does. Imagine, a system where healthy people aren't financially penalized for their healthy choices and lifestyles!

right, because as we all know.....diseases, accidents, birth defects, and old age, don't happen to people that make healthy choices and live healthy lifestyles....

Don't be dense, of course those things happen... that's precisely the reason for carrying insurance. It is not, as the ACA seems to treat the purchase, designed to be a socialist tool of pandering and empathy. It's a gamble... the insured purchases it with the hope they won't need to use it to a great deal, but to protect their assets should it happen and the insurance company weighs the risks and charges appropriately... that's the only way insurance can work and be affordable for the majority.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: network dude

Well if you read the article, it goes into it, but I know you won't so I'll resummarize here. The problem is that adding plans that aren't ACA compliant will send healthy people to them because they are cheaper. This causes a death spiral in the ACA plans as only sick people are left in that pool. So prices increase drastically. Then, ultimately, we are in the same situation we were in from 2000 - 2009. With health insurance prices rising exponentially from year to year and covering less and less health issues.

Yet my family's health coverage during that span was quite affordable, skyrocketing in price only after the ACA kicked in, and it covered a hell of a lot more than it presently does. Imagine, a system where healthy people aren't financially penalized for their healthy choices and lifestyles!

so...your private insurance company raised your rates, and you blame Obama....got it

originally posted by: Wayfarer
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

You stated in your previous post an ounce of prevention could have saved a huge load of cost later. I assumed the implication was you couldn't afford the preventative measures, and are now left with a lower likelihood of survival because of it. Are you actually saying you are happy with that situation?

I don't know you, but I believe you shouldn't have your life cut short because you cant afford the treatment necessary to give you the best chance of success. Are you telling me you think its right and true that you perhaps die because you can't afford medical care?

No, the implication is that had I been able to afford the appropriate treatment at the time, it wouldn't have ballooned into something that today is threatening my career, and possibly my life.

I can afford medical care. I spend $600/month on health insurance. Problem is, once I pay that, I may not have anything left for copays and deductibles, depending on what else is going on in my life (i had to move due to my job, and was really short on cash for several months)

The worst part: the medicine Ill be taking is $2k per dose. Ill take 4 doses week 1, 3 doses on week 2, 2 doses on week 3, and 1 dose a week after that for the rest of my life. My insurance company will now foot that bill, with me having a $50 copay due to subsidy from the drug manufacturer. Once my 12k deductible is hit, then it'll be all UHC paying for it. A prime example of the system working against itself.

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: network dude

Well if you read the article, it goes into it, but I know you won't so I'll resummarize here. The problem is that adding plans that aren't ACA compliant will send healthy people to them because they are cheaper. This causes a death spiral in the ACA plans as only sick people are left in that pool. So prices increase drastically. Then, ultimately, we are in the same situation we were in from 2000 - 2009. With health insurance prices rising exponentially from year to year and covering less and less health issues.

Yet my family's health coverage during that span was quite affordable, skyrocketing in price only after the ACA kicked in, and it covered a hell of a lot more than it presently does. Imagine, a system where healthy people aren't financially penalized for their healthy choices and lifestyles!

so...your private insurance company raised your rates, and you blame Obama....got it

No, I said I blame the ACA. Defensive lil' guy, aren't you?

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

But it sounds like your arguing that you couldn't afford it at the time and that all was right with the world. I'm saying I feel it was wrong that you were unable to exercise the better option because of lack of funds (on top of the total cost being greater with less chance of success that you are experiencing now). Am I still misunderstanding?

a reply to: Wayfarer

Nope, you have it right.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

This causes a death spiral in the ACA plans as only sick people are left in that pool. So prices increase drastically. Then, ultimately, we are in the same situation we were in from 2000 - 2009.

Or in my case, healthy people had to exit the pool.

I'm around thirty, no health problems, low blood pressure, average weight and my insurance doubled.

So I dropped it.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Ok good. Would you mind expanding on the concept of dying from lack of funds to pay for medical care? I have a hard time believing you would endorse that concept as something to be lauded. Do you believe if a poor/destitute person gets malaria (or some other curable disease) and is unable to pay for their medical expenses they should just find a bridge to die under quietly?

originally posted by: Wayfarer
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Ok good. Would you mind expanding on the concept of dying from lack of funds to pay for medical care? I have a hard time believing you would endorse that concept as something to be lauded. Do you believe if a poor/destitute person gets malaria (or some other curable disease) and is unable to pay for their medical expenses they should just find a bridge to die under quietly?

Mathematically, if my insurances premium hadn't increased by 300%, and if my copay hadn't increased by 250%, and if my deductible hadn't increased from $500 to $12k, its quite likely I could have afforded to at least schedule an office visit to beg for samples or something.

Were I poor/destitute, my copay would be lower, I would barely have a premium (if i have one at all) and there would be next to no deductible to pay towards.

ACA has "levelled the playing field" a little too much, taking more from me than I could afford so that someone with less income could be covered. The result: now the insurance company gets to pay $2k/week for a biologic medication. Which is just more cost to spread around through the system. Because we know that UHC isn't going to just eat the cost out of profits.

Derpa derpa, god given right to be denied coverage. We don't want your socialist commie medicine. We want the good stuff that makes people homeless and penniless and unable to afford healthcare. Yee haw.

a reply to: jimmyx

Our rates doubled due to the ACA too and the terms and coverage also got worse.

And it was the ACA and not adding the kid because the ACA hit before he did.

originally posted by: spiritualzombie
Derpa derpa, god given right to be denied coverage. We don't want your socialist commie medicine. We want the good stuff that makes people homeless and penniless and unable to afford healthcare. Yee haw.

Obamacare is also quite good at that.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: Wayfarer
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Ok good. Would you mind expanding on the concept of dying from lack of funds to pay for medical care? I have a hard time believing you would endorse that concept as something to be lauded. Do you believe if a poor/destitute person gets malaria (or some other curable disease) and is unable to pay for their medical expenses they should just find a bridge to die under quietly?

Mathematically, if my insurances premium hadn't increased by 300%, and if my copay hadn't increased by 250%, and if my deductible hadn't increased from $500 to $12k, its quite likely I could have afforded to at least schedule an office visit to beg for samples or something.

C'mon man, can't we both agree the system was borked before, and still is? I'm not sure we could find a soul on these boards that thinks it would be a bad idea to remove insurance companies entirely from the equation (and use that savings to make it affordable for all). Begging for samples can't be your idea of a functional and working solution, can it?

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: jimmyx

Our rates doubled due to the ACA too and the terms and coverage also got worse.

And it was the ACA and not adding the kid because the ACA hit before he did.

You know what that is? That's the insurance companies playing hard ball by passing the buck onto the working class - and counting on the working class to blame the ACA for the f*cking their getting from the insurance companies. And it worked. You all blame the ACA while this whole time it was the insurance companies bending you over and whispering in your ear that it's Obama.

a reply to: ketsuko

Its the age of reappropriation. I'm thirty and healthy, therefore I'm privileged.

I must pay social security (though I'll never see it).

If I want health care (what a luxery for a healthy person) than I must pay more than a car payment getting close to rent.

Should I get sick, I'll be aloud to get health insurance (I wouldn't do that, it's wrong. Much like getting fire insurance after the fire). Thus continuing this horrible cycle, further causing a lack of stability.

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: Wayfarer
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Ok good. Would you mind expanding on the concept of dying from lack of funds to pay for medical care? I have a hard time believing you would endorse that concept as something to be lauded. Do you believe if a poor/destitute person gets malaria (or some other curable disease) and is unable to pay for their medical expenses they should just find a bridge to die under quietly?

Mathematically, if my insurances premium hadn't increased by 300%, and if my copay hadn't increased by 250%, and if my deductible hadn't increased from $500 to $12k, its quite likely I could have afforded to at least schedule an office visit to beg for samples or something.

C'mon man, can't we both agree the system was borked before, and still is? I'm not sure we could find a soul on these boards that thinks it would be a bad idea to remove insurance companies entirely from the equation (and use that savings to make it affordable for all). Begging for samples can't be your idea of a functional and working solution, can it?

Broke don't even begin to describe it. But it is more broke now than it was prior to ACA. I get less healthcare for more money. Significantly.

Im thinking you are misunderstanding something though. I used my potential begging for samples to display exactly how broke it is today.

my premium went up a bit - $100.00, but my coverage is WAY better.

if I had gotten sick on the coverage I had i'd be in some serious trouble..

Obamacare told insurance companies "From now on you have to cover these people... and for people that only make this much money, and qualify for lower rates, you're going to cover those people too..." and the Insurance Company billionaires said, "then we're going to bleed the working class until they scream for it to stop."

This is about greed and a stranglehold the insurance companies have on healthcare.

The only solution is one that sees an end to the Health Insurance system as it exists today. My vote is for Single Payer healthcare or Bernie's Medicare For All.

originally posted by: knoxie
my premium went up a bit - $100.00, but my coverage is WAY better.

if I had gotten sick on the coverage I had i'd be in some serious trouble..

There you go. At least someone here is benefiting from the sacrifices being made.

And while this may sound sarcastic...it isn't. If im being bent over, at the very least i can find some comfort in knowing that people are finding benefit.

Now if we could do it in a way that didn't hurt half of us to help the other half....we'd be golden.