Body cam released in fatal shooting of Patrick Harmon by Salt Lake City Police Department

a reply to: majesticgent

I don't know about this one...it looks pretty bad. Yes, he did stop and turn around to the officer, but the video is not conclusive either way concerning if he had a weapon. I find it hard to think that, in those few short seconds while sprinting away, that he reaching into a pocket and pulled out a knife, or pulled one out that was clipped to his belt.

This one's a tough one. Of course, it's never good to just go off of the video, so I'll wait and see what investigations reveal. If they've already been done, does someone have a link to info from them?

a reply to: majesticgent

Resolution is terrible but it looks like he did in fact turn around and brandish a knife.

I didn't see it here:



but it appears to be in his right hand here:

a reply to: Night Star

Shooting to wound is not only a bad idea but I'm pretty sure unlawful. If you have come to the point of shooting you shoot to kill. If I am mistaken about the legalities it still doesn't matter as all training says if you are shooting you shoot to kill and that's how it is. If you didn't feel threatened enough to kill then you shouldn't be shooting in the first place.

a reply to: penroc3

if he didn't run he wouldn't be dead period

You shouldn't run from the police but the penalty for running from the police isn't summary execution.

a reply to: notsure1

Because as a civilian its not your job to chase and catch the crook...it is the officers job to though. If in the process of doing his,job the crook does something that could be taken as aggressive towards said officers then chances are they're going to shoot and not hesitate as hesitation can quickly equal death.

a reply to: theantediluvian

That second image certainly looks like a stabbing posture, but it's still too hard to tell what he's holding or why he stopped and turned toward police.

Like I noted...it's a tough one from what is presented in this OP.

originally posted by: RickyD
a reply to: notsure1

Because as a civilian its not your job to chase and catch the crook...it is the officers job to though. If in the process of doing his,job the crook does something that could be taken as aggressive towards said officers then chances are they're going to shoot and not hesitate as hesitation can quickly equal death.

I would love to know how many cops were killed by stabbing while on duty ,this year or any year...

a reply to: theantediluvian

People always focus on that aspect and tend to ignore the fact that in a heightened adrenaline situation like a chase that making a seemingly simple motion like turning around might easily come off as an aggressive move to the officers. Had he turned like that and had a gun it sure,doesn't even take a full second to pass before you could be shot. Things happen so fast there isn't time to think it out...we have all the time in the world to critique, they have maybe 1 second, probably less.

originally posted by: notsure1
if the cop wasnt a huge Pussy and shot him in the back he wouldnt be dead.

But go ahaed and keep your head in the sand. But know this is why BLM exists because people can see a cop shoot a guy in the back and blame the guy.

People can also see video of someone who runs from the police who has warrants out for their arrest, then stop mid-run and turn around toward the pursuing officer with something in his hand an aggressive stance.

And the officer shot him in his side initially, as he was seemingly turning back away from the officer after fully turning around to face him.

But go ahead and keep your head in the bias.

I'm not saying that he deserved to be shot and killed, but I am saying that his own actions in this encounter have a LOT to do with the outcome.

a reply to: notsure1

Have you ever tried to look it up for yourself?

Have you ever trained with knives? Have you ever trained to defend against a knife? Have you ever trained with a gun or how to defend against a gun?

Let me guess, you think that a gun is the more deadly weapon in a hand-to-hand scenario...

a reply to: notsure1

In the time you have to judge the situation its not about what kind of weapon it is. By the time you see the gun clearly in a situation such as this its usually too late. In a high stress fast paced situation such as a chase...just turning around to confront the officers in any way with something in your hand is tempting fate. There just isn't time to think, training takes over, and if you feel threatened or feel like it could be a gun...you shoot. Not saying its ideal...just that it is what it is. If you want to live day after day you don't hesitate in the second or less you have to determine what the bad guys intentions are.

originally posted by: SlapMonkey

originally posted by: notsure1
if the cop wasnt a huge Pussy and shot him in the back he wouldnt be dead.

But go ahaed and keep your head in the sand. But know this is why BLM exists because people can see a cop shoot a guy in the back and blame the guy.

People can also see video of someone who runs from the police who has warrants out for their arrest, then stop mid-run and turn around toward the pursuing officer with something in his hand an aggressive stance.

And the officer shot him in his side initially, as he was seemingly turning back away from the officer after fully turning around to face him.

But go ahead and keep your head in the bias.

I'm not saying that he deserved to be shot and killed, but I am saying that his own actions in this encounter have a LOT to do with the outcome.

Of course they do. everything was his fault up until the shots were fired.. Cops shoot 1st way to often. Even if he had a knife he was in no position to stab anyone he was 8 feet away.

Cops need to be held accountable for this shi or it will never stop.

a reply to: HeadCrunchMcRockGroin

No they don't. For one, this is exceptionally rare. For another, they do it to white people far more without any of the fan fare.

The fact that more white people are killed by cops doesn't mean that we shouldn't be concerned with black people being killed be cops. That's nonsensical. Also, as I'm sure you know, proportionally, black people are somewhat more likely to die in interactions with law enforcement and in police custody. If you'll remember BLM actually started following the death of Trayvon Martin and as it grew, BLM branched out to cover a host of social issues. Death is obviously far more serious than other things that can befall people so it's not surprising that it's a focal point for activism.

Nobody is stopping you, me or anyone else from voicing concern over the deaths of white people in interactions with police. If you choose not to do so, that's your choice.

In fact we ONLY hear about it when it's a black dude. In as far as mass media "coverage" that is. Lastly, black men kill other black men at rates no other groups comes close to except white and we're 65% of the country. If Black lives matter, why are we being lectured on it by people who apparently have very little value in their own people's lives?

Huh?

Because some black people kill other black people, no black people should be concerned about cops killing black people? Does that make sense? A lot of white people kill other white people so I guess by your logic, white people don't care about white lives and we have no reason to voice concern about anyone killing us. If anyone murders anyone you love, make sure if you get a chance in the sentencing phase, that you explain to the court how white lives don't matter because white people kill white people.

And why do you think that you are "being lectured?" Are you a cop? Are you a cop that has shot somebody? Do you just assume that when black people voice a concern, they're "lecturing" you or all of us white folks?

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: notsure1

Have you ever tried to look it up for yourself?

Have you ever trained with knives? Have you ever trained to defend against a knife? Have you ever trained with a gun or how to defend against a gun?

Let me guess, you think that a gun is the more deadly weapon in a hand-to-hand scenario...

obviously the guns wins as proof in the op video. They even have that saying dont bring a knife to a gun fight for a reason.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

The answer to those questions is 100% NO.

As to the situation outlined in the OP: the video isn't really any help at all. It all hinges on if there's a knife or not. If there's a knife, then his turning and appearing to slow or stop (the gap closes between the officer and deceased), it's justifiable. But the video sure doesn't seem to show anything clearly, one way or another.

As to the whole "I got 'em" comment: in my opinion the officer is telling the other officer that's about to go hands on that he (the shooter) has the subject covered. It wasn't some celebratory comment like they seem to want to imply it was.

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: notsure1

Have you ever tried to look it up for yourself?

Have you ever trained with knives? Have you ever trained to defend against a knife? Have you ever trained with a gun or how to defend against a gun?

Let me guess, you think that a gun is the more deadly weapon in a hand-to-hand scenario...

I cant find one...

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Yeah, I'm sure the raw body cam footage is much better than the compressed uploaded video but based on the posture and what appear to be glints, tentatively I'm going to lean toward it being a knife which would make the shooting justified.

Is guess nobody read the report that dude pulled out a knife.

www.sltrib.com...

originally posted by: notsure1

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: notsure1

Have you ever tried to look it up for yourself?

Have you ever trained with knives? Have you ever trained to defend against a knife? Have you ever trained with a gun or how to defend against a gun?

Let me guess, you think that a gun is the more deadly weapon in a hand-to-hand scenario...

I cant find one...

You didn't look very hard.

Even if he had a knife he was in no position to stab anyone he was 8 feet away.

And you've apparently never heard of the term "reactionary gap."

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Are you saying cops are trained to defend against knives? Is it with a gun? Because that all the training they seem tio have lol