About the Vegas Killer... newest info

originally posted by: Asktheanimals
Radar Returns from Las Vegas Router 91 concert area

Seems all the helicopters but one were tourist flights followed Las Vegas PD chopper with searchlight.
That is the one claimed to be showing muzzleflashes.
Pretty sure it was the police chopper.

www.youtube.com...

IMPORTANT
It didn't hit me until later but when the shooting starts there is some aircraft flying to the West that goes behind the Mandalay Bay around 10:05. He shows nothing around that time in area. All the choppers he shows are flying a pattern to the East of the concert grounds, none but the police helicopter are even in the area behind the Mandalay Bay. So, either this guy is lying or has incomplete information.

originally posted by: Boadicea
Several videos do seem to show that the gunfire is in sync with the passage of helicopters... and I wonder if the gunfire wasn't planned deliberately to coincide the the helicopters to help confuse people on the ground as to where the gunfire was coming from. The video seems to show the helicopters flying along the east side of the venue, and if someone were firing from one of the rooftops or the tanks on the east side, then it would be difficult to distinguish the exact location of the gunfire while the chopper is flying over.

Even if not intentional and deliberate, it would still seem to bombard the senses, creating further confusion and chaos and panic.

I'll give you another possibility: that speakers were mounted on the outside of a helicopter and it played gun fire sounds as it passed over. Coming from overhead the sounds would be non-directional would add greatly to the confusion. So far as I know the only muzzle flashes recorded were those coming from the 4th floor of the Mandalay Bay. They are the only flickering lights that match with sound that I am aware of. It's possible that most the stampede was caused by sound played over speakers coming from various places such as helicopters and the main stage.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

I'll give you another possibility: that speakers were mounted on the outside of a helicopter and it played gun fire sounds as it passed over.

And I'll take it!

Coming from overhead the sounds would be non-directional would add greatly to the confusion. So far as I know the only muzzle flashes recorded were those coming from the 4th floor of the Mandalay Bay. They are the only flickering lights that match with sound that I am aware of. It's possible that most the stampede was caused by sound played over speakers coming from various places such as helicopters and the main stage.

That might also explain the gunfire heard at Hooters which caused such a panic. But I still can't pin down a time for that panic beyond a few minutes after the shooting started at Route 91. Some things make me thing there might have been more than one panic. But I just can't pin it down!

Everything is so vague

a reply to: Boadicea

Those tourist chopper rides have a regular loop they run. People on one chopper wouldn't be aware if the chopper ahead or behind them were broadcasting sounds. Pretty easy to do using portable PA equipment and not very bulky either making loading and unloading discrete.

Either the guy who made the air traffic video or the FAA was lying or had incomplete information due to the aircraft behind the Mandalay at 10:05. Another thing is local radar only gives images above a certain altitude, it may be 50 or 100 feet I dont know but that doesn't discount the possibility of drones flying below the level of radar returns.

Note about radar returns

The information he is showing is only for aircraft using transponders, this is transponder radar. This is not flight radar which shows returns of everything in the air above a certain altitude. We have seen this situation before on 9/11 when the transponders on the airliners were turned off causing massive confusion.

Military/spec ops aircraft can probably turn off their transponder when desired.
Illegal flights by FAA standards but we all know the government can get away with anything they want pretty much.
This video by no means debunks helicopters as gun platforms.

originally posted by: Asktheanimals
a reply to: Boadicea

Pretty easy to do using portable PA equipment and not very bulky either making loading and unloading discrete.

Do you think it would be fair to assume that if that happened, then the pilot of the chopper was at least aware... if not complicit?

Either the guy who made the air traffic video or the FAA was lying or had incomplete information due to the aircraft behind the Mandalay at 10:05.

Well, I wouldn't put lying past him... but perhaps it was an honest mistake and he was checking flights an hour too early. In other words, at Pacific Standard time, instead of Pacific Daylight Time.

Another thing is local radar only gives images above a certain altitude, it may be 50 or 100 feet I dont know but that doesn't discount the possibility of drones flying below the level of radar returns.

That peaked my curiosity, so I did some checking. Apparently drones can legally fly to 400 feet, and can fly higher if one doesn't care about the law (and I think it's pretty safe to say in this case the law wasn't going to stop em!). Mandalay Bay is about 480' tall according to Wikipedia. If we allow 10' per floor, and account for the unnumbered ground floor, then the 32nd floor would be about 330'. Looks may be deceiving, but it didn't seem the aircraft lights behind the Mandalay were higher than the hotel. Just saying -- I don't know what this all might mean!

a reply to: Asktheanimals

Noted -- and thank you.

That could/would make a difference. Perhaps a big difference.

Forgive me, I don't want to be ghoulish but is the number of the dead up to 59?

I know originally they said it was 59 and changed it to 58


Somebody posted some kind of occult harvest thing...
Well if its 59 then 59 plus 32 equals

HARVEST 91

originally posted by: Willtell
Forgive me, I don't want to be ghoulish but is the number of the dead up to 59?

I know originally they said it was 59 and changed it to 58

I believe it is 58 victims plus "Paddock."

Somebody posted some kind of occult harvest thing...
Well if its 59 then 59 plus 32 equals
HARVEST 91

As if it all isn't creepy enough!

originally posted by: Willtell
Forgive me, I don't want to be ghoulish but is the number of the dead up to 59?

I know originally they said it was 59 and changed it to 58


Somebody posted some kind of occult harvest thing...
Well if its 59 then 59 plus 32 equals

HARVEST 91

A better analysis:

58+33=91

And the "91" is the old U.S. Route number for Las Vegas Blvd.

a reply to: xuenchen

Hmmmm.... "33" as in the 33rd degree?

I actually had a family member who was (purportedly) a 33rd degree Mason. His wife was a secretary or something for the DAR, and helped all the girls in the family submit their paperwork for DAR registration. If I knew then what I know now, I'd be picking his brain like crazy! Youth is wasted on the young!!!

Or are you suggesting something happened on the 33rd floor and our attention is being re-directed to the 32nd?

I made a thread about 4 videos shot of the FBI cleaning up the concert grounds. Camera has a good view from up in the Mandalay Bay Hotel. Lots of good close ups, enough to tell no bullets hit anything visible besides the fuel tanks. This means that either the shooter(s) were in the crowd or the shots came from above, in both cases with extreme accuracy.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: xuenchen

originally posted by: Willtell
Forgive me, I don't want to be ghoulish but is the number of the dead up to 59?

I know originally they said it was 59 and changed it to 58


Somebody posted some kind of occult harvest thing...
Well if its 59 then 59 plus 32 equals

HARVEST 91

A better analysis:

58+33=91

And the "91" is the old U.S. Route number for Las Vegas Blvd.

No no no I’m not blaming the masons…don’t get Augustus on my case.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

I used 2 live in Lk Stevens ,WA. Maybe thats it?

a reply to: Asktheanimals

Thank you! I've got the page up... I'll watch the videos when I get the chance.

Looks quite interesting already

www.intellihub.com...

So Battlefield Las Vegas who offers shooting packages (including belt fed guns), crushing cars with tanks, etc - was called in on the evening of the shooting. I wonder what that's all about...

originally posted by: Willtell

originally posted by: xuenchen

originally posted by: Willtell
Forgive me, I don't want to be ghoulish but is the number of the dead up to 59?

I know originally they said it was 59 and changed it to 58


Somebody posted some kind of occult harvest thing...
Well if its 59 then 59 plus 32 equals

HARVEST 91

A better analysis:

58+33=91

And the "91" is the old U.S. Route number for Las Vegas Blvd.

No no no I’m not blaming the masons…don’t get Augustus on my case.

BwaaaHaHaHa

Unfortunately most of the conspiracy theory community, occultist or otherwise, has been flooded, deliberately I would say, by the lunatic fringe, and there’s few serious researchers anymore. Here is one of the few serious ones who I’m sure will have a great blog piece on this tragic incident soon. visupview.blogspot.com...

I think ATS stands out as one of the few serious conspiracy/occultist/ research vehicles left. This great thread is an example of this.


This event is pregnant with occultist and conspiracy signals. From the pyramid next to it to all the testimony about numerous shooters, tells us this is 911-type incident. They wanted this to be the all time in victims killed and this eveny has many synchronicities about it.

originally posted by: Willtell
Unfortunately most of the conspiracy theory community, occultist or otherwise, has been flooded, deliberately I would say, by the lunatic fringe, and there’s few serious researchers anymore.

I've seen the same and felt the same for a looooong time. And too often a very self-righteous holier-than-thou so to speak attitude about it. I pretty much gave up on all of them. I'll check out your link though -- thanks!

I think ATS stands out as one of the few serious conspiracy/occultist/ research vehicles left. This great thread is an example of this.

ATS definitely has the potential to be... but it is what the members make of it. Thank you for thinking this thread is of that calibre. I'm honored

This event is pregnant with occultist and conspiracy signals. From the pyramid next to it to all the testimony about numerous shooters, tells us this is 911-type incident. They wanted this to be the all time in victims killed and this eveny has many synchronicities about it.

Yes, many many synchronicities. I haven't taken the time to check it out, but this event was within a week of the September 23 eclipse and all the attendant predictions of this and that. And with any lunation, the week before and after exact lunation are significant as well.

Here is something intriguing that I found last night in the comments after a YouTube video about Hooters. The video wasn't remarkable, but the comment is:

Dude, did anyone else notice [that] about the time the hockey game let out (last preseason game; I was there that night and parked at Hooters), there was a steady increase of all blacked out truck[s]. Not SUVs, but off-road mid-size pickups with off road tires, mufflers, lights, etc. And at first I noticed one, and then another about ten minutes apart. But then it went to about six minutes apart, and my buddy John and I were in the parking garage smoking catching a fade, and swear to God when they got to about two minutes apart, going up the Hooter garage, driving to the top -- or at least above level 2 where I was parked, catching a fade. And they got so many so close together I said, "Dude, that's the police or something. Some kind of government. We're out of here, dude. Let's roll." And so we dipped. I started noticing them after about the 5th or 6th truck going up the ramp, and I was, like, "Look, dude, there's another one. Yo, look, Bro, another one." Point being they started catching my attention. They were coming so frequent. Like they were up to something. I couldn't really say whether peeping and scrolling or setting up shop. But they were def[initely] up to something for hours before the shooting. I dipped when it got to be too many, and I got home 35 minutes later. And 10-15 minutes later I was getting calls making sure I left from down there after the game.

Source
This specific comment was the third reply to this comment --

i was at hooters # was crazy ..........

-- by Ronson jn sjn. And -- fair warning -- because the original comment at the link was in all caps and all caps are frowned upon here at ATS, while editing for caps I also edited for spelling and punctuation and otherwise tried to clean it up and make it easier to understand.

I've tried to put together a timeline for what he's saying. I checked out the hockey team's schedule, and evening games start at 7:00, and average 2+ hours. So he could have been out any time after 9:00 pm -- a little more than an hour before the shooting began. So then I worked backwards. He said he got home about 35 minutes after he left, and 10-15 minutes later people started calling to ask him if he got home from downtown. But I'm not sure how soon that was. This local reports the first news coverage is at 10:35. There may have been something sooner, but usually the news stations all get the same feed at about the same time and are pretty close on each other's heels. Or perhaps the people calling him may have been downtown and heard about it almost immediately, or heard about it from their friends and family that were downtown. I'm going to guestimate that the soonest he started getting calls was between 10:15 and 10:30. So he probably left the parking garage between 9:30 and 9:45? Does that sound right?

I expect that they knew something was about to go down, and the Hooter's parking garage was their staging ground for their response. And this just reaffirms my suspicion that the Feds were monitoring an undercover meeting with those cameras, and whatever nefarious characters it was with, they always intended to ambush the undercover fed guy and commit this atrocity.

In any event, the Feds must have known something was about to go down, and were preparing before it started. We have no idea how long this guy was in the garage, how many vehicles came before he got there and after he left, how many he didn't notice... So we don't know when the black monster trucks started congregating there, and therefore no idea when the Feds knew something was going sideways.