Americans Hopeful This Will Be Last Mass Shooting Before They Stop On Their Own For No Reason

So what I'm getting from the responses in this thread is that guns are not the problem, it's that compared to most western countries, Americans are generally more violent and mentally unstable.

Seems right?

If So, what do we do about that?

originally posted by: Tempter

originally posted by: Finspiracy

originally posted by: [post=22727312]
It would be fair to say millions of law-abiding citizens shouldn't be punished for the deeds of one nutjob.

How is not allowing a regular citizen carry a weapon be considered as a punishment?

Or is mass shootings (and gun violence) now just part of our daily lives? Just another daily occurrence we have to live with?

Yes.

You can't outlaw guns. That's against our Constitution.

Next.

Yes you can. That's why it's called an Amendment.

originally posted by: Gaspode

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

I'd also add that not every problem needs a solution.

Are you saying that this problem doesn't need a solution? Or has a solution (which is clearly not working)?

Did the LV shooter use a legal firearm?

For that matter, can it be proven that he was, indeed, the shooter? Best I can tell, they walked in and found a corpse. What tests have been done on this corpse to determine that he had fired the couple hundred rounds needed to do what was done.

If im being really honest...im not buying much in this story other than people were shot by someone. Beyond that...its conjecture. And the people "investigating" are my prime suspect.

originally posted by: Kryties

originally posted by: Tempter

originally posted by: Finspiracy

originally posted by: [post=22727312]
It would be fair to say millions of law-abiding citizens shouldn't be punished for the deeds of one nutjob.

How is not allowing a regular citizen carry a weapon be considered as a punishment?

Or is mass shootings (and gun violence) now just part of our daily lives? Just another daily occurrence we have to live with?

Yes.

You can't outlaw guns. That's against our Constitution.

Next.

Yes you can. That's why it's called an Amendment.

OK, in theory you can.

But it won't happen. I know that I won't turn in any guns. I don't think many will. In fact, i'd expect several state governments to try to over rule the amendment with state level legislation, and we would be back to fighting over states rights again.

originally posted by: Nexttimemaybe
So what I'm getting from the responses in this thread is that guns are not the problem, it's that compared to most western countries, Americans are generally more violent and mentally unstable.

Seems right?

If So, what do we do about that?

Build a wall.

a reply to: Wayfarer

An expansion of my personal beliefs seems superfluous, however, my conception is that, in general, guns/firearms are here to stay in America for previously stated reasons. We desperately need to stop the deification of firearms (as either a Good or Evil God) and see them for what they are ... tools. Further, if every adult carries, we will all come to live in a more aware state ... aware of how our individual actions and behaviors affect those around us, conscious of our surroundings and focused on tactical awareness.

I'm not offering my beliefs as A SOLUTION to the most recent situation in Las Vegas as there is no SOLUTION; I strongly think that is the flaw in the logic of the "gun control" side of the argument.

Banning firearms is simply not a solution to these statistical anomalies.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: Kryties

originally posted by: Tempter

originally posted by: Finspiracy

originally posted by: [post=22727312]
It would be fair to say millions of law-abiding citizens shouldn't be punished for the deeds of one nutjob.

How is not allowing a regular citizen carry a weapon be considered as a punishment?

Or is mass shootings (and gun violence) now just part of our daily lives? Just another daily occurrence we have to live with?

Yes.

You can't outlaw guns. That's against our Constitution.

Next.

Yes you can. That's why it's called an Amendment.

OK, in theory you can.

But it won't happen. I know that I won't turn in any guns. I don't think many will. In fact, i'd expect several state governments to try to over rule the amendment with state level legislation, and we would be back to fighting over states rights again.

What's the estimate of firearms currently in the hands of Americans? 350 million or so with a 10-15 million unit add every year.

Might as well just stand still, close our eyes and wish them all away -- that'd be just as effective.

originally posted by: TerminalVelocity

Again: the problem isn't guns. The problem is people.

Are you implying its easier to change people than it is to just get rid of guns?

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Wayfarer

An expansion of my personal beliefs seems superfluous, however, my conception is that, in general, guns/firearms are here to stay in America for previously stated reasons. We desperately need to stop the deification of firearms (as either a Good or Evil God) and see them for what they are ... tools. Further, if every adult carries, we will all come to live in a more aware state ... aware of how our individual actions and behaviors affect those around us, conscious of our surroundings and focused on tactical awareness.

I'm not offering my beliefs as A SOLUTION to the most recent situation in Las Vegas as there is no SOLUTION; I strongly think that is the flaw in the logic of the "gun control" side of the argument.

Banning firearms is simply not a solution to these statistical anomalies.

But it sounds like your solution is to make peace with huge bodycounts. I agree you can consider that a solution (heinously unpalatable I may add), but again it flies in the face of case studies such as Australia which conclusively show that when its harder to get guns, you reduce the gun violence.

a reply to: Gryphon66

I haven't bought one in a few years (except this cool single shot, breach load .22 cal pellet gun that will kill armadillos). But im planning on adding a new bolt action in the next few months.

I also have a 30.06 Remington with a sticky bolt that I need to take in to be filed down. I'd actually be willing to pimp that rifle out a little if the bolt was smoother. For deer its fine only getting one shot off. For hog i expect to get 2 minimum, and can't with a sticky bolt. I've just been using a lever action Marlin 30-30 that was my dad's.

a reply to: Wayfarer

To gather all the guns, you need to change the people as well.

Like Texan said many people would never hand in their fire arms, many would bury them and say oh I lost it in the lake duck hunting accident.

Bout 40% of the homes in America have guns, there are not enough law enforcement to go door to door safely and force people to give up their guns.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: Kryties

originally posted by: Tempter

originally posted by: Finspiracy

originally posted by: [post=22727312]
It would be fair to say millions of law-abiding citizens shouldn't be punished for the deeds of one nutjob.

How is not allowing a regular citizen carry a weapon be considered as a punishment?

Or is mass shootings (and gun violence) now just part of our daily lives? Just another daily occurrence we have to live with?

Yes.

You can't outlaw guns. That's against our Constitution.

Next.

Yes you can. That's why it's called an Amendment.

OK, in theory you can.

But it won't happen. I know that I won't turn in any guns. I don't think many will. In fact, i'd expect several state governments to try to over rule the amendment with state level legislation, and we would be back to fighting over states rights again.

What's the estimate of firearms currently in the hands of Americans? 350 million or so with a 10-15 million unit add every year.

Might as well just stand still, close our eyes and wish them all away -- that'd be just as effective.

Or how about opening up legal action against gun manufacturers? Is there any reason 20 folks should be wealthier than god and use that money to perpetuate this madness than at least letting some of the victims share in the wealth generated by this heinous bloodshed?

originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: Wayfarer

To gather all the guns, you need to change the people as well.

Like Texan said many people would never hand in their fire arms, many would bury them and say oh I lost it in the lake duck hunting accident.

Bout 40% of the homes in America have guns, there are not enough law enforcement to go door to door safely and force people to give up their guns.

You couldn't achieve it in one fell swoop, but banning the sale and beginning the buy-back and roundup process (which taken as given would have to span a fairly lengthy period of time) would begin to affect change in the positive direction. The argument that because its hard to do something nothing can be done is fallacious and is contributing to the body-count.

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Wayfarer

An expansion of my personal beliefs seems superfluous, however, my conception is that, in general, guns/firearms are here to stay in America for previously stated reasons. We desperately need to stop the deification of firearms (as either a Good or Evil God) and see them for what they are ... tools. Further, if every adult carries, we will all come to live in a more aware state ... aware of how our individual actions and behaviors affect those around us, conscious of our surroundings and focused on tactical awareness.

I'm not offering my beliefs as A SOLUTION to the most recent situation in Las Vegas as there is no SOLUTION; I strongly think that is the flaw in the logic of the "gun control" side of the argument.

Banning firearms is simply not a solution to these statistical anomalies.

But it sounds like your solution is to make peace with huge bodycounts. I agree you can consider that a solution (heinously unpalatable I may add), but again it flies in the face of case studies such as Australia which conclusively show that when its harder to get guns, you reduce the gun violence.

Not at all. The body counts are there. It's not a matter of making peace with them. I'm all in favor of looking at WHY we're killing each other rather than HOW.

"Case studies such as Australia" look good on paper, but mean very little to nothing here for reasons already outlined multiple times. Different initial circumstances, different legal system, different Constitutional rights, different mentalities, etc. etc.

You aren't going to ban firearms in the United States, not without massive and draconian changes to our system of government. I feel confident in stating that you wouldn't like where that would end up, either...

It'd be like playing Russian Roulette with Pandora's Box.

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: Kryties

originally posted by: Tempter

originally posted by: Finspiracy

originally posted by: [post=22727312]
It would be fair to say millions of law-abiding citizens shouldn't be punished for the deeds of one nutjob.

How is not allowing a regular citizen carry a weapon be considered as a punishment?

Or is mass shootings (and gun violence) now just part of our daily lives? Just another daily occurrence we have to live with?

Yes.

You can't outlaw guns. That's against our Constitution.

Next.

Yes you can. That's why it's called an Amendment.

OK, in theory you can.

But it won't happen. I know that I won't turn in any guns. I don't think many will. In fact, i'd expect several state governments to try to over rule the amendment with state level legislation, and we would be back to fighting over states rights again.

What's the estimate of firearms currently in the hands of Americans? 350 million or so with a 10-15 million unit add every year.

Might as well just stand still, close our eyes and wish them all away -- that'd be just as effective.

Or how about opening up legal action against gun manufacturers? Is there any reason 20 folks should be wealthier than god and use that money to perpetuate this madness than at least letting some of the victims share in the wealth generated by this heinous bloodshed?

You just ran and took a leap off the edge of the current discussion as far as I'm concerned.

I still say we should make it harder for mentally ill people to get guns.

a reply to: Wayfarer

The biggest problem with your suggestion: Americans do not want to give up their guns.

Why should they/we listen to folks like you pushing this narrative again?

originally posted by: kaylaluv
I still say we should make it harder for mentally ill people to get guns.

Perfectly valid under the Constitution and current jurisprudence.

First problem: the expansion of what "mentally ill" means legally.

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: TerminalVelocity

Again: the problem isn't guns. The problem is people.

Are you implying its easier to change people than it is to just get rid of guns?

Yes.

You think this past Sunday was bloody?

You NO idea of what is bloody but will certainly find out if government truly decides to grab people's firearms.

It would make Waco look like a mugging.

There are enough people here in the US that would take to repeating the OK city bombing.

There are tens of millions of US citizens that would do it. That's no joke.

But out of those: how many own guns that jump up on their own and kill people? Zero.

How many of them go out and decide to do what happened in LV? Precious few.

Those precious few are the problem. Not the guns, like you keep insisting.

I'm telling you: the government can pass all the laws they want to try and take people's firearms away. The result will be a blood bath like you can't imagine.

Your "solution" is worse than the problem.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Wayfarer

The biggest problem with your suggestion: Americans do not want to give up their guns.

Why should they/we listen to folks like you pushing this narrative again?

Correction, a portion of American's don't want to give up their guns. You are clearly on that side of the divide, but if/when the government came to collect any non-bolt action or breach loading non-shotgun pistol or rifle, I don't think you would have ALL Americans collectively crying against it.

Why should you listen to this narrative? Because your solution/ideas/thoughts on the matter don't actually do anything. You've spent a lot of time explaining how it can't/won't change so there's nothing we can do about it other than proliferate guns more. This seems like a grossly illogical approach.