Americans Hopeful This Will Be Last Mass Shooting Before They Stop On Their Own For No Reason

The majority of gun deaths come from black people and all but a handful of mass shootings are done by Muslims. Why don't leftists and anti gun people make blacks register, lock them up during the most dangerous ages, put patches and GPS trackers on Muslims, yadda yadda Cuz if you wanna be honest about everything, murder happens with knives and blunt objects when no guns are around and countries have ha DC horrendous mass shootings that have serious gun control so your logic would be more appropriate if the operators and people who fit the profile themselves were cpntroled not the legal guns that are rarely if at all responsible for mass shootings. C'mon now, lock that colored young man up....and keep him on a shorter leash! He's a danger to society! That's about how silly the arguments for disarming the peaceful majority are. Not just stupid but restricting the right to go about life for people who don't deserve any government intervention. One person CANNOT have the power to change the age old rules of a nation of 350,000,000. Nope,not 75 people either should.

And there's no way to not sound racist while saying all these things,in not in the slightest no matter what you want to think. But I'm not too PC to name a fact. If certain people want gun control so badly, why not instead ban gangster rap? The black communities weren't suffering from such a hideous scourge anything of the magnitude the generations have since the glorifying of turf, gangs, colors, flags, dealing, etc. That would stop fifty killings daily not just mass shootings. Believe me the guns used in these are not legally held.

originally posted by: SudoNim

originally posted by: joemoe
a reply to: Finspiracy

Yes. Isn't self defense a right almost everywhere? You need firearms for that?

Yes ... try using a knife in a gun fight? Or better yet try fighting an enemy invasion or a tyrannical government without firearms.

Don't go to a gun fight... stop pretending you are ever going to fight an enemy invasion or tyrannical government.

History says otherwise.

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: Irishhaf
what possible legislation could have stopped this?

Why is this such a hard concept to understand. Zero Guns. Gun Ban. If you can't buy a gun, it doesn't matter if you're a criminal or a saint.

The 2nd amendment has done nothing but kill people (mostly innocent people). How many tyrannical governments have we overthrown with our overwhelming civilian firepower? How many Abrams tanks and MQ-9 Reapers are we going to be able to destroy with all these guns if/when the Government comes to oppress us?

Can you not understand that criminals do not obey laws, and therefore will continue to obtain guns illegally?
Prohibitions do not work. It has been proven globally many times with many subjects.

Ban guns, and you remove the ability of anyone to defend themselves on equal terms from aggressors with guns.

The second amendment has never harmed anyone. People have.

We overthrew the English empire's rule on the US when they resisted our succession. Who knows how many have decided not to try to invade due to the arms our population own.
Anyone smart with a firearm wouldn't target a Tank, nor would they meet troops in open combat.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
First problem: the expansion of what "mentally ill" means legally.

Why need an umbrella 'mentally ill' box to toss people in?

Case by case basis.

Does the person have a history of criminal violence against other people? No guns.
Are they on legally prescribed drugs that are known to induce altered mental states? No guns.
Do they claim to hear voices that urge them to harm themselves or others? No guns.
Publishing manifestos that speak of hatred of others, be it individuals, or groups such as the government? No guns.

The guy that dressed as the joker and shot up the movie theatre was known to be a very troubled individual, but the mental health system did *nothing.*

Doctors are pumping people full of drugs at record rates as a panacea to solve everything. Many of those drugs are well documented to have adverse affects on mental health. Drinking water is full of contaminants and let's not forget that we're being fed Fluoride in that same water, an element that has been shown to harm a person's thyroid gland which can lead to depression and anxiety.

Processed foods are awful for us, mentally and physically, and we're scarfing that stuff down like we're starving.

Look at the numbers of imported products we get from China, some of which contain dangerous amounts of lead. Faux wood products, which are used in inexpensive cabinetry in houses, contain dangerous amounts of compounds like formaldehyde. The off-gassing of that can make people extremely ill and it also causes brain damage.

Insecticides, herbicides, GMO products... None of this is going to end until this country is no longer run by Big Pharma and Big Corporations being run by the world bankers.

Gun control will do nothing. Those that are inciting violence now will simply shift to other methods of violence.

originally posted by: Wayfarer
a reply to: Wardaddy454

You don't have to recognize the emotional aspect of it to answer the question.

Let me rephrase for you: How many people would you let die to keep your guns?

Anyone coming to take them from me?

a reply to: SlapMonkey

No. You wanted to discuss gun control. I didn't. You jerked a knee. I wasn't having any of it.

Shall we recap my attempts to make this point? I'm going to be so bold as to quote myself.

originally posted by: Gaspode
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But isn't there middle-ground on the issue? If we take gun control off the table for the sake of the second amendment and gun owners, what alternatives are there?
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So leaving the gun control discussions up to the multitude of other threads, what is left? When will this be the last one?

originally posted by: Gaspode
Again:

The gun control vs. gun owners debaters are not going budge. So if we put the gun control issue to the side, what other alternative is there?

originally posted by: Gaspode
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What solutions are there without using the words "gun control"? (Because those words simply divide even further.)

originally posted by: Gaspode
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2. The gun owners vs. gun control discussions go nowhere - so what can be done without even considering the gun control issue? Can the issue be addressed without addressing gun control? This is an opportunity for pro-gun folks to step up. If not the guns, then what?

originally posted by: Gaspode
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The point was: Gun control is always the central issue when this happens, but this only causes division. So, what other solutions are there? Which is the perfect opportunity for any gun owner and supporter of the right to own guns, like yourself, to step up to the plate and present a solution that doesn't involve gun control.
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I couldn't be any clearer than that.

It is apparent that the issue of guns is like a religion and the word "gun control" is a blasphemy (heresy?) people cannot move past. Blinded by emotional anger. Not emotional about the actual tragedy, but about the fact that 'people are going to take my guns!!'.
I invited a conversation with the question what other possible solutions there can be other than gun control to prevent future massacres. Very few actually addressed the point I tried to make.

The thread ended up discussing muzzle flashes on the 4th floor and slingshots. Doesn't that tell you something? No answers, suggestions or even shrugs. Mostly 'what the hell do you know you tree hugging hippy' and 'you'll pry my guns out of my cold dead hands' posts.

Which pretty much brings us to the conclusion that mass shootings are going to be with us for the foreseeable future and it is now just another part of our daily lives.

The below review of research shows mental illness and guns are strongly linked in suicide, but only only very weakly linked to gun violence. The conclusion is socioeconomic status, age, drugs and gender are stronger factors. The Annals of Epidemiology is a peer reviewed journal. The article is below:
www.annalsofepidemiology.org - Mental illness and reduction of gun violence and suicide: bringing epidemiologic research to policy...

originally posted by: UKTruth
How does America compare on mass public shootings with the rest of the world?
Comparing homicides by gun is not really effective. It assumes the homicide would not have occurred by other means. the comparison is also flawed as population density and poverty levels play a huge part. The US population has far more highly populated urban areas than the UK, for example.
The issue with guns is the capability to kill many people at once as in Vegas. I've not seen a good comparison on mass shootings.

The link I posted took several different views on the issue. I just posted on of the 17 graphs (points).

The answer remains the same: When it comes to gun massacres, the United States is tragically exceptional - There are more public mass shootings in the United States than in any other country in the world.
There are several studies and articles on the matter. It's a fact that cannot be denied. How often do you hear about someone in Holland walking into a church and killing the congregants? Or a kid in New Zealand walking into a school and shooting up the place? Or a sniper in Japan killing random people on the street? I'm not talking about Islamic terrorists or common criminals or gang wars. I'm talking about people going postal. People so angry at life or at other people that they simply pick up a weapon and massacre strangers.

And more to your question/observation:

Abstract
OBJECTIVE:
Model the global distribution of public mass shooters around the world.
METHOD:
Negative binomial regression is used to test the effects of homicide rates, suicide rates, firearm ownership rates, and several control variables on public mass shooters per country from 1966 to 2012.
RESULTS:
The global distribution of public mass shooters appears partially attributable to cross-national differences in firearms availability but not associated with cross-national homicide or suicide rates.
CONCLUSION:
The United States and other nations with high firearm ownership rates may be particularly susceptible to future public mass shootings, even if they are relatively peaceful or mentally healthy according to other national indicators.
NCBI Article

The above is an old study, but by now the results would probably be even more dire.

The U.S. is average in terms of non-gun violence and non-gun crime. But we have many more guns, and much weaker gun laws, and thus far more gun deaths (e.g., gun homicides and overall homicides) than other developed nations. Not surprisingly, we also have many more mass shootings per capita.
Mass public shootings increasing in U.S.

The U.S. is home to 5% of the world's population, but has had 31% of the public mass shootings worldwide between 1966 and 2012, according to a new study presented at the American Sociological Association meeting.
- Time

Not just a river in Egypt.

a reply to: Gaspode


That was a good post

Which pretty much brings us to the conclusion that mass shootings are going to be with us for the foreseeable future and it is now just another part of our daily lives.

I have a very definite stance on gun control, but everytime something like this happens I see the same stupid arguments get lead to nowhere and nothing ever changes. So I say to hell with it. If Americans want a gajillion guns in every home and they're willing to have thousands of deaths per year, with the number increasing every year as a result, I say let them have at it. The problem will solve itself soon enough...

One suggestion being that this debate entails your Second Amendment, what about following it to the letter.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Why not mandate all gun owners join a "Regulated Militia". By regulated one would interpret that to be the current definition as per the Militia Act of 1903, being the Organised Militia, ie National Guard.

Being made to join a unit would hopefully separate the irresponsible and insane over time. Get discharged from the Militia and loss the right to bear arms.

Just a suggestion since from the outside it appears no one has the courage to address it.

originally posted by: Finspiracy

originally posted by: joemoe

Because in the US we have the rights to protect ourselves from those willing to harm us or our family.

Yes. Isn't self defense a right almost everywhere? You need firearms for that?

Yes.

originally posted by: Gaspode
a reply to: joemoe

True - man is evil. Been like that since the beginning of time.

But I find it hard to believe that the human race is intelligent enough to land a satellite on a moving comet, create technology that allows us to have the world's information in the palm of our hands, cure smallpox, prevent an Ebola outbreak of Armageddon proportions, but not smart enough to prevent 600 people from being shot by one man?

Setting aside that point, and we focus just on the issue of this (rampage shootings) being a major issue in the USA.

Some Statistics

Summed up by this:

Isn't it time to look at 1. why mass shootings like this are so prevalent in the USA and 2. what can be learned from countries where this is a non-issue?

As a Brit I think that maybe the national psyche is the problem.

You live in probably the most affluent, most advanced country in the world, but a lot of you seem completely paranoid.

You think the government is going to try and enslave you and send you to fema camps, or a "bad guy" is going to try and rob/kill/assault you, or the cops are going to get you, etc, etc, etc.

When it gets to the point that ordinary people don't feel safe just going about their daily business without having a gun with them, then either something is seriously wrong, or the fear is being blown completely out of proportion compared to the real danger.

Maybe Hollywood is to blame, or politicians, or maybe the fracturing of society where everyone is at each others throats and distrusts and even hates people with different opinions, I mean just think about the divisions in society where people don't "feel safe" and distrust their fellow countrymen and authority in general:

Black lives matter, antifa, transgender activists, LGBTQHUDIFHRTD activists, SJWs, college kid activists, trump supporters, Hillary supporters, republicans vs democrats, etc, etc, etc.

The paranoia has been raised to fever pitch and people snap because of their perception of the country and how "unfair" everything is.

And yet compared to so many other countries you are actually really, REALLY blessed...

But a lot of people seem to feel that you've been dealt the worst hand in the world.

And all of that is just what's going on among yourselves without the rhetoric over North Korea (right now), the Commies (in the past and Russia today), Iraq, Iran, ISIS, ISIL, Daesh, and all of the rest.

You're being led to believe everyone in the world is against you, even your neighbours.

There's no wonder this keeps happening, you need a change of mindset more than anything else.

[steps of soapbox of personal opinion]

a reply to: Gaspode

Have you looked at all sources or just the ones that are anti-gun?
I ask, because I have seen statistics that show the US as 12th (behind countries like France) when considering public shooting of 4 or more people in order to remove the daily occurrences in places like Chicago. Of course, that was a pro-2nd Amendment source. Who's really telling the truth?
Mainly though, gun crime statistics are worthless. Only murder rate overall is important in any comparison, and even then differences between countries must be factored in.

originally posted by: VVV88

originally posted by: SudoNim

originally posted by: joemoe
a reply to: Finspiracy

Yes. Isn't self defense a right almost everywhere? You need firearms for that?

Yes ... try using a knife in a gun fight? Or better yet try fighting an enemy invasion or a tyrannical government without firearms.

Don't go to a gun fight... stop pretending you are ever going to fight an enemy invasion or tyrannical government.

History says otherwise.

No it doesn't.

originally posted by: UKTruth
a reply to: Gaspode

Have you looked at all sources or just the ones that are anti-gun?
I ask, because I have seen statistics that show the US as 12th (behind countries like France) when considering public shooting of 4 or more people in order to remove the daily occurrences in places like Chicago. Of course, that was a pro-2nd Amendment source. Who's really telling the truth?
Mainly though, gun crime statistics are worthless. Only murder rate overall is important in any comparison, and even then differences between countries must be factored in.

Post your source.

Alright lets try it one more time...

the guy had no record, the guy had no history of mental illness (that I have heard about), well off financially.

I have seen people quoting that idiotic saying, "common sense gun laws" so I must be stupid someone explain to me the law that would stop someone from breaking the law.

a reply to: UKTruth

The study I quoted in my previous factored everything in. The result was: "The United States and other nations with high firearm ownership rates may be particularly susceptible to future public mass shootings, even if they are relatively peaceful or mentally healthy according to other national indicators. " Alternative link.

I'm not sure what it is you are trying to argue?
You don't need a study or a link to know that rampage shootings are a problematic occurrence in the USA?

originally posted by: Gaspode
a reply to: UKTruth

The study I quoted in my previous factored everything in. The result was: "The United States and other nations with high firearm ownership rates may be particularly susceptible to future public mass shootings, even if they are relatively peaceful or mentally healthy according to other national indicators. " Alternative link.

I'm not sure what it is you are trying to argue?
You don't need a study or a link to know that rampage shootings are a problematic occurrence in the USA?

Vegas wasn't a rampage shooting.

Neither was Columbine or Roof or the theatre shooting or Ft Hood.