Americans Hopeful This Will Be Last Mass Shooting Before They Stop On Their Own For No Reason

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Well said.I live in the middle of no where and harvest my own protein from the forest.Use a firearm on daily base's.They are a farm tool to survive.Even just to protect the chicken coop from fisher cats & coyote's is a daily thing.

a reply to: introvert

When I watch the footage and listen to the audio, im led to believe the following:

- this guy wasn't the shooter
- there was more than one shooter
- shots were fired from lower floors

Nothing in this dudes history supports him doing this. Nothing at all. His politics aren't correct. His background isn't there. Im not even sure how he would know how to handle a misfire or something going wrong on one of the guns reported to be used.

If im being honest....this whole thing stinks like hell like an official operation.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: introvert

When I watch the footage and listen to the audio, im led to believe the following:

- this guy wasn't the shooter
- there was more than one shooter
- shots were fired from lower floors

Nothing in this dudes history supports him doing this. Nothing at all. His politics aren't correct. His background isn't there. Im not even sure how he would know how to handle a misfire or something going wrong on one of the guns reported to be used.

If im being honest....this whole thing stinks like hell like an official operation.

Perhaps you are better informed on the issue and have seen some things I have not to come to that conclusion.

Why do you believe there were shots fired from lower floors? Can you point me in the right direction?

Also, there was a video posted to twitter, which in turn was posted here, that has some good audio. It does sound as if there is small arms fire going off between the louder rounds, but if you listen it does sound as if someone is firing a cranked weapon. The rate of fire goes up and down, even though the firearm is being constantly fired.

originally posted by: introvert
Perhaps you are better informed on the issue and have seen some things I have not to come to that conclusion.

Why do you believe there were shots fired from lower floors? Can you point me in the right direction?

A grainy video is the best I got:



I'd hardly call me "better informed". Im barely able to stay abreast. But im seeing flashes that im not convinced aren't something other than lens flare, as i've not seen lense flare anywhere else.

Also, there was a video posted to twitter, which in turn was posted here, that has some good audio. It does sound as if there is small arms fire going off between the louder rounds, but if you listen it does sound as if someone is firing a cranked weapon. The rate of fire goes up and down, even though the firearm is being constantly fired.

Can you link to that video?

a reply to: Gaspode

How does America compare on mass public shootings with the rest of the world?

Comparing homicides by gun is not really effective. It assumes the homicide would not have occurred by other means. the comparison is also flawed as population density and poverty levels play a huge part. The US population has far more highly populated urban areas than the UK, for example.

The issue with guns is the capability to kill many people at once as in Vegas. I've not seen a good comparison on mass shootings.

originally posted by: UKTruth
a reply to: Gaspode

How does America compare on mass public shootings with the rest of the world?

Comparing homicides by gun is not really effective. It assumes the homicide would not have occurred by other means. the comparison is also flawed as population density and poverty levels play a huge part. The US population has far more highly populated urban areas than the UK, for example.

The issue with guns is the capability to kill many people at once as in Vegas. I've not seen a good comparison on mass shootings.

The UK's population density is far higher than America.

Comparing homicides by guns is very effective if your end result is to compare homicides by guns. What part of it isn't working for you? Or does it just not give the result you'd like.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: introvert
Perhaps you are better informed on the issue and have seen some things I have not to come to that conclusion.

Why do you believe there were shots fired from lower floors? Can you point me in the right direction?

A grainy video is the best I got:

I'd hardly call me "better informed". Im barely able to stay abreast. But im seeing flashes that im not convinced aren't something other than lens flare, as i've not seen lense flare anywhere else.

Also, there was a video posted to twitter, which in turn was posted here, that has some good audio. It does sound as if there is small arms fire going off between the louder rounds, but if you listen it does sound as if someone is firing a cranked weapon. The rate of fire goes up and down, even though the firearm is being constantly fired.

Can you link to that video?

Link showing these flashes hours before the shooting began.

Sure.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I did not see any reports of a window on the 4th floor being shot out. It appears to me that light on the 4th was a strobe or something. Do we know what is on the 4th floor?

Can you link to that video?

Sorry, it was posted in the other thread and I'm trying to find it.

a reply to: seagull

a reply to: Wayfarer

I'm one of those "hard core" second amendment types you're referring to.

Nothing wrong with that. Here in Canada, I can legally own a gun if I so choose as long as it's not a high-powered assault rifle, Uzi, machine gun, etc, tho. So can all law abiding Canadian citizens. The same can be said for the other G20 Nations. The thing is: stats have shown that most of us in other developed nations don't have the *need* or *want* to own a gun—our societal conditioning and social climate does not evoke the need to cling to such behaviour and ideology.

This is why gun violence and mass shootings are significantly lower in other G20 nations when compared to the US.

Should I lose a member of my family to gun violence, I'm not going to blame my neighbor--unless he's the one who shot, of course

This is the mind-set I alluded to above. The societal conditioning and violent social climate of the US has unconsciously conditioned you to possess this thought-process. To be fair; whenever I stay at my home in Cali, despite being in a gated community and within relatively safe surroundings; I too begin to adopt this mentality. America's social climate and/or high propensity for crime and gun violence does not allow me to feel as safe as I do when I'm at home in Canada, or when I spend time at my other places of residence in the UK, Caribbean and the Netherlands.

There are reasons America sits the lowest of all developed nations on the Global Peace Index: visionofhumanity.org...

...nor am I going to blame the tool used. How insane is it to blame a tool? Nor would I call for everyone to lose their rights over it.

It is extremely INSANE to blame the tool when in fact its the *enculturation* (of American society) that should be blamed instead.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Found it. Listen to the audio in this video.

twitter.com...

a reply to: Gaspode

I don't know... The mass shootings get bigger and bigger every time.

originally posted by: Wayfarer
a reply to: Wardaddy454

You don't have to recognize the emotional aspect of it to answer the question.

Let me rephrase for you: How many people would you let die to keep your guns?

None. It's not something I have to worry about because my family all CC. The ones that are too young still know how to use a gun and where it is if its ever needed. So in your hypothetical, someone may try but they probably won't succeed.

originally posted by: Involutionist
a reply to: seagull

a reply to: Wayfarer

I'm one of those "hard core" second amendment types you're referring to.

Nothing wrong with that. Here in Canada, I can legally own a gun if I so choose as long as it's not a high-powered assault rifle, Uzi, machine gun, etc, tho. So can all law abiding Canadian citizens. The same can be said for the other G20 Nations. The thing is: stats have shown that most of us in other developed nations don't have the *need* or *want* to own a gun—our societal conditioning and social climate does not evoke the need to cling to such behaviour and ideology.

This is why gun violence and mass shootings are significantly lower in other G20 nations when compared to the US.

Should I lose a member of my family to gun violence, I'm not going to blame my neighbor--unless he's the one who shot, of course

This is the mind-set I alluded to above. The societal conditioning and violent social climate of the US has unconsciously conditioned you to possess this thought-process. To be fair; whenever I stay at my home in Cali, despite being in a gated community and within relatively safe surroundings; I too begin to adopt this mentality. America's social climate and/or high propensity for crime and gun violence does not allow me to feel as safe as I do when I'm at home in Canada, or when I spend time at my other places of residence in the UK, Caribbean and the Netherlands.

There are reasons America sits the lowest of all developed nations on the Global Peace Index: visionofhumanity.org...

...nor am I going to blame the tool used. How insane is it to blame a tool? Nor would I call for everyone to lose their rights over it.

It is extremely INSANE to blame the tool when in fact its the *enculturation* (of American society) that should be blamed instead.

The thing is though, all those guns you describe are a minor statistic. Compared to the thousands of handguns and knives used in crimes, rifles etc number around a couple hundred used according to the FBI.

Your picture is also wrong. Its not "glorified patriotic violence", its just crime.

And FBI stats point to California being the worst, even surpassing Illinois when it comes to crime. Maybe that's why you get that way when you visit Cali.

And lastly, they may not have guns but what are the knife/machete stats in those countries.

a reply to: Involutionist

So Grand Theft Auto is patriotic violence?

Wrong thread

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Involutionist

So Grand Theft Auto is patriotic violence?

Its that Justin Castreau brainwashing

originally posted by: SudoNim

originally posted by: UKTruth
a reply to: Gaspode

How does America compare on mass public shootings with the rest of the world?

Comparing homicides by gun is not really effective. It assumes the homicide would not have occurred by other means. the comparison is also flawed as population density and poverty levels play a huge part. The US population has far more highly populated urban areas than the UK, for example.

The issue with guns is the capability to kill many people at once as in Vegas. I've not seen a good comparison on mass shootings.

The UK's population density is far higher than America.

Comparing homicides by guns is very effective if your end result is to compare homicides by guns. What part of it isn't working for you? Or does it just not give the result you'd like.

Nationwide - that is correct.
However, when comparing urban areas of high populations the US has far more densely populated cities.

US - 186 Metropolitan areas of > 250000 people
UK - 32 Metropolitan areas of >250000 people

Comparing gun homicides rate in a discussion about mass shootings is nonsense, but what is also nonsense is a straight comparison between the US and the UK using gun murders. When you control for population densities in metropolitan areas, the murder rate (regardless of weapon) is actually higher in the UK. banning guns in the UK has solved very little.

I'm not a gun guy in the least. Have never owned one and never will, but banning guns doesn't address the underlying problem for why this sickness is happening in society. It would just make the real issue easier to ignore. If this guy didn't have firearms he's still going to go out and kill someone somewhere with something. It just probably goes unreported and the rest of us can go about our fake realities we've created for ourselves and pretend the world isn't festering around us.

a reply to: introvert

man, that sounds an awful lot like a crank operated gun.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: introvert

man, that sounds an awful lot like a crank operated gun.

Indeed. It also does not sound like an AR with one of those crank attachments. That is why I wonder if this dude may have assembled some sort of crank-operated Gatling-style weapon in the hotel room.