Audio Analysis of Las Vegas Shooting

a reply to: AnonymousTi

Just putting my thoughts out there I bet there was more then just him in that room, two gun stands and an impressively deadly rate of fire and hits, even if you accou t for through and through wounds that's allot of hits.


Seems like a well planned out hit

originally posted by: penroc3
a reply to: AnonymousTi

Just putting my thoughts out there I bet there was more then just him in that room, two gun stands and an impressively deadly rate of fire and hits, even if you accou t for through and through wounds that's allot of hits.


Seems like a well planned out hit

Yeah, which makes you wonder why there was 2 broken windows instead of one... unless it's all one room?

a reply to: AnonymousTi

It could have been the corner of the same room, but multiple people would explain the strange fire pattern sounds. Two people trying to fire at the same time but not making it perfect

a reply to: penroc3

Did a quick search on the rooms and it looks like it could possibly be all one room.

www.lasvegas.net...

This might be very similar to the suite he/they were firing from... Hard to say for sure though.

a reply to: penroc3

All one room and could've had both firearms on Tri pods rigged up while Consistently reloading drums when needed going back and forth across the room. Definitely planned to a tea. Or had help....


I didn't catch if it was confirmed that there were no rigged mounting devices in the room. My apologies.

a reply to: Fungo

I heard there were two regular gun stands the kind they aren't permintantly a fixed to, more like a fancy rest to stand up or sit and shoot from.

After hearing the audio it's deffintly some snaps and impacts from the rounds but the actual fire rate is very strange even if it's a bump fire rig(And you can't shoot from a stand with one of those rigs)

I'm betting 7.62 or maybe even .308 ar-10 type platform seeing as they apparently had allot of threw and threw injuries.


But the two shooting areas is strange for a single shooter, he could hit more threw one window and just keep firing into the crowd. Harder to hit running people.

He seemed like he had his shooting area set up with mags and guns ready to go, so why change areas again to hit harder targets.

I wouldn't be surprised if he has some sort of training, either doing it on his own or GOD forbid a fellow retired service member.


If it were me, and I'm only saying this for demonstration purposes!!!!

I would have my shoot g area set up on fixed mounted stands that could swivel with either a belt fed or using high capacity mags all lined up and a back up rifle.

Blow the window with a round or even just cut the window out and take a few shots so people bunch and then just unload in to the mass of people.

59 dead and 250+ wooned in a relatively short amount of time with one person even is a high hit to kill/mame ratio and that's why I think there were at least 2 shooters each on a window. One to deal with the huddled masses and the other to take the runners.

My understanding is one weapon was a ar15 in 5.56 with a drum mag.
The other was a ar10 rifle in 7.62x51 with 20 round mags.

Both had been illegally converted to full auto.

This guy was worth over $4 million dollars and could likely found and bought even better firepower if he had tried.
he had no criminal record and likely could have got a semiautomatic M2HB
50bmgstore.com...
www.mcssl.com...

a reply to: ANNED

I k we a larger round would have been used for some of it, 5.56 tumbles in bodies and 7.62 can keep going

7.62 on a bump fire...

More interesting though is the possible muzzle flash at about 12oc in the vid when they look up (blinking light appears to be in time with shots) - definitely not the 32nd story

originally posted by: AnonymousTi
I know there's a lot of confusion over what weapon was used, rate of fire, etc etc so I got the audio from a video here.

twitter.com...

Here's the audio profile. Might have missed the first couple hundred milliseconds of the video but you can get the idea
oi64.tinypic.com...



As you can see the rate of fire is very inconsistent, although firing up to 12 rounds per second!

People are saying Bump Stock/Crank System, but I say full auto. Anyone who has ever shot a full auto rifle knows you don't just squeeze and hold, you squeeze and resqueeze which changes the rate of fire.

There was no less than 82 shots fired, and probably more, the way it sounds is he put out over 100 rounds, I counted 82 transients in the audio waveform, some of those multiple shots, some of those were also cut off from the first few seconds as the OP said he missed.



100 rounds on the bump fire, as you can see very clearly, the risk of jam is somewhat high, and the consistency is actually higher than the recorded clip, and almost every clip you can find of bump/slide fire with 100 round drums is more consistent than the actual Vegas sound clips. This means that he had to intentionally slow the rate of fire by taking a moment to resqueeze, which tells me it was probably legit full auto.

100% not a slide/bump fire setup. It was less probably a crank, even though it sounds more like a crank, because most 100 round drums are two 50 drums which would get in the way of the crank. Not impossible, but improbable.

Either way, the crank and the bump fire stock are both really easy to make, the crank even easier, basically anyone can make one, so there is no realistic way to stop people from having full-auto capability. You can put one on any long gun/rifle, you can even put them on pistols. Here is one on a Glock.



Rifle or no rifle, he could have delivered the same amount of rounds into the crowd of people, and when spraying into a crowd, it's not like accuracy matters, with how densely populated a venue with 30,000 people in it is, the pistol would have still killed ~50 people.

a reply to: SRPrime

The rate of fire changes - not because he stops - it just gets faster then slower.
That doesn't happen with full auto

originally posted by: coldkidc
a reply to: SRPrime

The rate of fire changes - not because he stops - it just gets faster then slower.
That doesn't happen with full auto

Yes it does -- if you feather and resqueeze instead of just squeezing and holding. You've clearly never shot fully auto, or had any training on how to effectively shoot fully auto.

It is pretty much impossible to maintain a steady rate of fire with the Slide fire stock, I have one on my M&P 15-22, ( with a barrel mounted recoil enhancer) the Slide fire stock kind of sucks for regular shooting.

The more prevalent reports are from a Belgian made AK-47.

The secondary reports are from an M-4 (AR-15 platform).

I also hear a small caliber pistol or rifle mixed in there as well.

a reply to: SRPrime

I guess you must know then - do you have an example on youtube of "trigger feathering" I can check out?
Just have never seen anything but a steady rate out of an ak or ar platform at full auto

Sounds to me like the first thing heard are the bullets hitting the ground/objects, then the sound of the rifle, makes it sound like 2 weapons being fired, there is a delay..sound is travelling slower than the rounds.
That is my take.

originally posted by: coldkidc
7.62 on a bump fire...

More interesting though is the possible muzzle flash at about 12oc in the vid when they look up (blinking light appears to be in time with shots) - definitely not the 32nd story

Yeah I noticed the flashes too, almost looks like you can see smoke aswell...

Here I'm going to do some side by side comparisons in my audio program.

www.youtube.com... AR-15
This video here sounds pretty close at 1:02 seconds with a AR-15. The rate of fire is close maybe slightly slower. It's weird too that the Vegas shooter didn't mess up the "flow" of rounds which seems common with these slide fire stocks or bump fire. Definitely seems like he would have been really experienced if he was using those.

www.youtube.com... AK47
The fire rate is too slow to match the shooters fire rate and I imagine that would probably hurt the shoulder after a whole bunch of rounds.

www.youtube.com... AK47
This video the fire rate is too slow. In a few of these videos already the gun jammed occasionally.
I'm guessing the recoil is too high to bump fire the AK47 fast enough which makes me think its more likely a 5.56 round or smaller

www.youtube.com...
Surprisingly comparing this audio side by side, the AR-15 gatling mod video is the closest comparison so far out of these. Less likely to mess up the "rhythm" with those slide-fire/bump-fire mods too. It's very close but I think the shooters gatling mod may be clicking the trigger 4 times per revolution instead of 3. Either way this one is really close.

It definitely sounds like there are multiple guns firing at the same time in a few instances, as one poster said, possibly overlap between shooters taking turns firing. I thought about the echo and the thing is that he would be pointing down at the ground from a fairly steep angle, maybe 30-35 degrees??, and if the sound were directed at the ground at that angle they would reflect off at a like angle and possibly hit a vertical building behind and then be directed upwards at an angle again. I'm not going into the geometry of it, but the point is that the echo would not sound like another similar gun, it would have significantly less amplitude and probably much loss of the higher end frequencies I would think. But what was on the audio sounded like a separate gun firing and not an echo IMO.

a reply to: DigginFoTroof

Hmm I'm not going to rule out multiple shooters but if there was there should be some overlapping in the gun shots which I'm not seeing...

That aside I got another image here comparing the shooter audio to the AR-15 gatling mod audio. Both audio is from the beginning except the AR-15 gatling audio starts when he takes off the silencer.

oi63.tinypic.com...


As you can see it is pretty close, might look better if I shifted the audio around left or right a bit.
27 shots for the shooter and about 31 shots from the video since the Vegas shooters rate of fire drops off at the end

Just found more evidence pointing to modded weapons.

"Some of the firearms recovered from the hotel room had scopes, while two were reportedly modified to make them fully automatic."

www.telegraph.co.uk...