Gun Experts - Could the Vegas shooter have fired that many rounds in the time he was active?

originally posted by: TheErlenmeyerFlask
creds, well I was a combat MP (gunner) and did a tour in Iraq. Does that mean I know everything, not a chance lol, but I do continue my marksmanship passion as a civilian as a long range shooting competitor. here is my two cents...

Here is where it falls apart (for me anyway) is the sound. listening to various online videos of the incident, I couldn't help but recognize the rate of fire and what we call 'talking guns'. You see, when firing as a squad, you provide 3-5 rd bursts. this is done to increase accuracy (muzzle rises up and right on full auto) and secondly, to avoid over heating your barrel. So you overlap your fire. we call it talking guns because you'll hear a 'buuuuuuuuuuurrrp' of fire, then just before it ends, another gunner picks up the rate... buuuuuuuuuuup. and it just slightly overlaps, multiple gunners, laying what seems like constant fire. if you're well trained as a squad, it's almost musical.

Now, listening to a few videos, I noticed a few instances of well overlapped automatic fire. I could be from the echos of those tall buildings - I wouldn't rule that out, but just for a second there, it really sounds like two or three gunners, using automatic weapons, who have done this before. no credit to this scumbag, but as one who appreciated the finer aspects of soldiering and being a gunner, the sound of well timed fire can be beautiful. honestly, the fire seemed professional to me, just for those few seconds.

From the news reports, they say, he had a corner suite room on the 32nd floor. This gave him two vantage points to fire from. He did alternate between the two to avoid being detected, but it was the smoke alarms triggered by the gunsmoke that gave away his location.

"boss".... You don´t have to call me that way but if you like...

Look. It´s not hard to believe for me after what happened in Duisburg. There were 500+ injured and 24 dead just by panic alone. Panic started because there were too much people and then it spiraled out of control. People trying to flee, running over others that stumbled, stumble too and get run over by others. Pushed against walls until they suffocated or crushed their upper bodies. If you fall down in such masses, you simply can´t get up on your own. It´s a death sentence.

Now imagine this panic being triggered by someone shooting around.

What exactly do you disbelieve here? That it was a single shooter or that all those people got injured by fleeing?

originally posted by: verschickter
"boss".... You don´t have to call me that way but if you like...

Look. It´s not hard to believe for me after what happened in Duisburg. There were 500+ injured and 24 dead just by panic alone. Panic started because there were too much people and then it spiraled out of control. People trying to flee, running over others that stumbled, stumble too and get run over by others. Pushed against walls until they suffocated or crushed their upper bodies. If you fall down in such masses, you simply can´t get up on your own. It´s a death sentence.

Now imagine this panic being triggered by someone shooting around.

What exactly do you disbelieve here? That it was a single shooter or that all those people got injured by fleeing?

The former.

I understand how trampling occurs.

So back to the question.

How many actually shot?

I heard at least three weapons in one video clip.
All were ar15/m16 style.
One sounded suppressed.

A 5.56mm round travels over 3000 f/s.
Yes, one person w/ several weapons and plenty of ammo could do this kind of damage.

Only a sick, twisted person would, though.

originally posted by: Oaktree
I heard at least three weapons in one video clip.
All were ar15/m16 style.
One sounded suppressed.

A 5.56mm round travels over 3000 f/s.
Yes, one person w/ several weapons and plenty of ammo could do this kind of damage.

Only a sick, twisted person would, though.

So you say likely a team too eh?

Back to the question?? You never asked it. You asked

"How do we have 500+ casualties from 200 rounds? "

I explained it to you. Now you´re saying you know how trampling works. Great.

How many actually shot? You will have to wait for the official report. Then you have something official to disbelieve in.

a reply to: Urantia1111

How about waiting a few days for more information? The death toll will probably increase and the number of rounds fired is only approximate.

People are still being treated and some families won't yet know they've lost someone.

originally posted by: Urantia1111

originally posted by: Oaktree
I heard at least three weapons in one video clip.
All were ar15/m16 style.
One sounded suppressed.

A 5.56mm round travels over 3000 f/s.
Yes, one person w/ several weapons and plenty of ammo could do this kind of damage.

Only a sick, twisted person would, though.

So you say likely a team too eh?

Did you even read his post?

Take a deep breath and re-read it. You will clearly see that he stated quite plainly that one person was very capable of doing this.

Why do you have such a hard time grasping the fact that the vast majority of injuries were a result of the chaos that ensued? Its not only logical, but fairly obvious that that's what occurred.

originally posted by: verschickter
Back to the question?? You never asked it. You asked

"How do we have 500+ casualties from 200 rounds? "

I explained it to you. Now you´re saying you know how trampling works. Great.

How many actually shot? You will have to wait for the official report. Then you have something official to disbelieve in.

My gosh youre upset 😂

Nevermind killer.

I figured you might know.

Take a nap or something maybe eh?

originally posted by: Urantia1111

originally posted by: Oaktree
I heard at least three weapons in one video clip.
All were ar15/m16 style.
One sounded suppressed.

A 5.56mm round travels over 3000 f/s.
Yes, one person w/ several weapons and plenty of ammo could do this kind of damage.

Only a sick, twisted person would, though.

So you say likely a team too eh?

I'm sorry, I see where I wasn't clear.
No, not a team.
3 different weapons being fired, but only 1 at a time, meaning he probably had several full auto ar-15s on hand.
Magazines sound larger than 30rd, too.

originally posted by: nightbringr

originally posted by: Urantia1111

originally posted by: Oaktree
I heard at least three weapons in one video clip.
All were ar15/m16 style.
One sounded suppressed.

A 5.56mm round travels over 3000 f/s.
Yes, one person w/ several weapons and plenty of ammo could do this kind of damage.

Only a sick, twisted person would, though.

So you say likely a team too eh?

Did you even read his post?

Take a deep breath and re-read it. You will clearly see that he stated quite plainly that one person was very capable of doing this.

Why do you have such a hard time grasping the fact that the vast majority of injuries were a result of the chaos that ensued? Its not only logical, but fairly obvious that that's what occurred.

Obviously i read it.

Why so hostile?

Just trying to assess what we're being TOLD happened out there.

Yes i can believe people ran and got hurt. Makes sense that way.

Is that what we're being told happened is my question.

a reply to: Urantia1111

I think that if the guy lost his marbles and had 2 AK's, and a duffle full of mags, it would be very possible to injure many people.
That rifle is cable of dropping 30 rounds in 15 seconds and that is semi auto. Full auto would just be uglier.

At that fire rate, heat would be the main problem, but he had plenty of time.

a reply to: Urantia1111

I´m as calm as I could be maybe reflect on your own behavior and words you use.

I just dislike it when posters try to act "cool" with stuff like "boss" and "back to the question" when you actually never asked that question and being all over the place. You don´t even grasp what you misunderstood when you think the other poster wrote about a "team". You just read what you want, the rest is ignored.

You think you are that smart, yet you can´t even read properly.

originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: Urantia1111

How about waiting a few days for more information? The death toll will probably increase and the number of rounds fired is only approximate.

People are still being treated and some families won't yet know they've lost someone.

I gotta wait a few days when theres an active discussion about this exact topic going on here?

Why?

Whats the title of this thread?

All im asking is how many people sustained gunshots last night? If its 60 or so or even 160 thats believable and jives with maybe a solitary madman.

If its MORE than the number of shots they claim were fired, im leaning more towards multiple shooters.

Is this not a conspiracy website anymore?

You know ive been here for a few of these and people get suspiciously irrate any time someone questions what their tv set has told them is true.

a reply to: Revolution9

yes it's possible.

I've not seen confirmation of the type of weapon, but I could hear that it was obviously full auto, and was either drum or belt fed. If you take into account that the venue is a concert, with people packed in...it's basically like shooting fish in a barrel. The guy had height advantage, and the plunging fire into soft targets is fairly effective...not to mention ricochet of cement or asphalt or whatever the ground was composed of...

How long did he have? 5 minutes? 10 minutes? In that amount of time he could have gotten off at least 1,000 rounds, if he was any good. Did he have multiple automatic weapons in case of a malfunction, or to prevent reload down time? Were the weapons tripod mounted? Bipod mounted?

Whatever the case, I would say he was more than capable of putting that much lead downrange.

Pretty sad and heartbreaking to see all those people injured and dead because of a deranged person.

originally posted by: verschickter
a reply to: Urantia1111

I´m as calm as I could be maybe reflect on your own behavior and words you use.

I just dislike it when posters try to act "cool" with stuff like "boss" and "back to the question" when you actually never asked that question and being all over the place. You don´t even grasp what you misunderstood when you think the other poster wrote about a "team". You just read what you want, the rest is ignored.

You think you are that smart, yet you can´t even read properly.

Grow a thicker skin mate, youre on the internet.

Sorry you dont care for my lingo.

So youre 100% convinced this is all on the level? No chance its anything more than one crazy guy with tens of thousands of dollars in firearms and no discerable grudge or message for the country's largest massacre so far?

Whatever you say.

I´m not 100% convinced, but I like how you already made up your mind about what I think. Instead of wildly searching for a conspiracy, I´m watching it develop and wait until the picture is more clear.

a reply to: Urantia1111


You can pick up one of these AK's for $600 and another $250 will buy a 1000 rounds, and another couple hundred will get you all the mags you can fill. Not $10,000 bucks.

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: Urantia1111


You can pick up one of these AK's for $600 and another $250 will buy a 1000 rounds, and another couple hundred will get you all the mags you can fill. Not $10,000 bucks.

I havent sorted through the man's arsenal just yet.

Going by what the resident "gun experts" are speculating was used.

Sure didnt sound like any AK ive used though.

originally posted by: verschickter
I´m not 100% convinced, but I like how you already made up your mind about what I think. Instead of wildly searching for a conspiracy, I´m watching it develop and wait until the picture is more clear.

By all means do it your way.

In the meantime, no speculation allowed by others?

Which of these mass shootings didnt have conflicting stories from witnesses suggesting something more than what the news eventually settles on as Official Story?

If all you wanna do is sit on your couch and wait for the news to tell you a story be my guest.