Gun Experts - Could the Vegas shooter have fired that many rounds in the time he was active?

Please can somebody who knows about weaponry reassure me that it was possible for the Vegas shooter to have discharged so many rounds in the time he was active; enough to kill over fifty, injure over two hundred and obviously accounting for misses, too.

How long was he active? What was his weapon? It seems a hellish lot of shooting for one guy. Could his ears take that (may be he had mufflers)?

Well strange scenario. I must be a bit crazy, but I think some of these are weird operations where they have a fall guy who doesn't do most of it, but carries the can, like they have been primed to do it. I think that about LHO.

That woman who got ejected by the security tried to tell people, but they thought she was crazy. Was that his woman Marilou?

There are a heap of questions to be answered. I'm still shocked and I am thousands of miles away. Sorry for telling you off earlier. It is because I care. I hate seeing America imploding like this.

a reply to: Revolution9


You can push an AK-47 (if that was indeed the weapon) pretty far....265 rounds in a hurry.




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a reply to: Revolution9

Short answer is yes...

Granted this guy is a professional but this is a revolver.....

He probably had to turn off his hearing aids.

I know some eighty year olds that are in good enough shape to do that kind of shooting. None of them would do it though.

I guess he got pissed because there was a noisy party downstairs, all that guns and Ammo were just there because he was worried about leaving them at home and someone breaking into his appt. His brother had commented that there were no advance signs of him doing anything like this. I wonder why he did it?

a reply to: seasonal

He must have bee well tooled up. He would have needed loads of ammo. The guy was 64 years old??? I am much younger than him and I would have been struggling to pull of half of what he did. I think one SAS Officer or Seal would be struggling to pull it off.

The guy was like the Terminator.

a reply to: GuidedKill

Well you guys are answering me in the affirmative. Here in the UK we are really naive about guns.

It' just seems so weird that a human could do that from self motivation. It is a really hard thing to do if you are totally focused and committed. To be in a fit of rage makes you lose a lot of coordination.

Damn, I really am blown away by this. It's a lot of damage for one individual to inflict.

a reply to: Revolution9

He fired multiple rounds into a crowd from a great elevation. It doesn't require a marksman to do that.

a reply to: Revolution9

A dufflebag and 6-40 round magazines of ammo or he may have had a few 75 round drum mags. Not very difficult to plan.

The actual ability to get that rate of fire would not have been difficult, especially with no opposition. Mentally that is another story, the guy had problems.

a reply to: Revolution9

I think one SAS Officer or Seal would be struggling to pull it off.

Hardly.

The cyclic rate of an M-16 is between 700 and 950 rounds in a minute. Cyclic means with a continuous feed of ammo and continuous trigger application, an M-16 is in theory capable of putting between 700 and 950 rounds downrange in one minute. That doesn't take into account things like barrel overheating and weapon malfunctions.

Cyclic for an M-249 is, if I recall, 800 rounds a minute. An M-240 is 600 rounds a minute.

So yes, it's entirely plausible that somebody with at least some firearms knowledge could put down that much fire in that amount of time when they didn't have to worry about rounds coming back at them.

The guy was probably mostly swinging around and not taking accurate shots, at least that´s what my impression is from what I´ve heard on the radio.

@revolution9
I´m certain it´s not your intention to praise this sick human but I think you should choose your words more carefully

a reply to: verschickter

No. My word are fine. Hard words for a hard occasion. Sorry if I offended, you don't have to look.

a reply to: Revolution9
No offense here, it´s not about me. And it´s not about telling you what to write. You got me totally wrong here.

Guns!

I have never held one. I never will hold one. I would rather die than hurt another human being, but then I follow Christ and He teaches to turn the other cheek, which is what I do.

I feel for you guys having to live with threats like this. It's a thing you do not sense creeping up, a slow exposure. Living on fight or flight is not freedom.

Damn guns to hell. Look how many lives they have taken in a decade? Is this a good thing? Is it WORTH IT?

People are afraid of terror??? Be afraid of the gun because it kills many many more times more people than terror in the U.S. However, it is really a terrorism of its own.

Not for me to go telling other nations how to live. Carry on if you think it's fine.

originally posted by: verschickter
a reply to: Revolution9
No offense here, it´s not about me. And it´s not about telling you what to write. You got me totally wrong here.

Dunno, sounds to me like you are just wanting to point score. You came here to this thread just to say that.

Wow, you wanna hear what I'm like when I'm not being PC.You would have something to moan about then.

No worries. I'm just BLOWN AWAY with human beings these days. I had enough of it a long time ago, hence the hermit living, far away from the madding crowd.

The gun didn´t aim itself and start to fire into a crowd. It was the person behind the gun.

a reply to: Revolution9
No I´m not "scoring points".

I was just trying to tell you that your post sounds like you´re in awe. Whatever you interpret into my post, you´re wrong.

creds, well I was a combat MP (gunner) and did a tour in Iraq. Does that mean I know everything, not a chance lol, but I do continue my marksmanship passion as a civilian as a long range shooting competitor. here is my two cents...

The rate of fire doesn't matter much at this point - there are plenty of systems that can cycle that kinda brass in a hurry. and from the videos, I have a few points on that. but first thing was that distance, hmmm.

from the 32nd floor (estimated saaaaay 320ft of elevation?) and from that corner of the hotel to reach out to the first dozen rows of concert goers in front of main stage is roughly 400-500yds, just by dropping some pins on google maps. Secondly, you triangulate that, since he's 100yds up, that changes the actual distance so he's a little bit further out as far as ballistics are concerned.

IF and I stress IF he was using AK platforms, (7.62x39) that's a pretty far clip to be pushing, especially into a crowd. you'll see a bullet drop somewhere around 150 inches at 500yds, and velocity is probably well under 1000fps. this by no way suggest it can't be done, just not accurately. the man was truly spraying into that crowd. and that round is a bone crusher and probably the round was tumbling at that distance. the terminal ballistics were probably very very very ugly. I wouldn't expect to see any direct wounds on the news. it'd be ugly.

but to answer the question of the OP, yes, it's very easy to put that kinda of fire down, as many suggested our us army crew serves can go waaaay above that, somewhere to 800+ rounds per minute.

Here is where it falls apart (for me anyway) is the sound. listening to various online videos of the incident, I couldn't help but recognize the rate of fire and what we call 'talking guns'. You see, when firing as a squad, you provide 3-5 rd bursts. this is done to increase accuracy (muzzle rises up and right on full auto) and secondly, to avoid over heating your barrel. So you overlap your fire. we call it talking guns because you'll hear a 'buuuuuuuuuuurrrp' of fire, then just before it ends, another gunner picks up the rate... buuuuuuuuuuup. and it just slightly overlaps, multiple gunners, laying what seems like constant fire. if you're well trained as a squad, it's almost musical.

Now, listening to a few videos, I noticed a few instances of well overlapped automatic fire. I could be from the echos of those tall buildings - I wouldn't rule that out, but just for a second there, it really sounds like two or three gunners, using automatic weapons, who have done this before. no credit to this scumbag, but as one who appreciated the finer aspects of soldiering and being a gunner, the sound of well timed fire can be beautiful. honestly, the fire seemed professional to me, just for those few seconds.

If the news comes out and says it was one guy with a hand full of semi automatic AKs and AR platforms, i'm calling BS. he had to have some serious crew serves up there. something that was 7.62 but longer barreled, like a 240Bravo - you'd defiantly get accurate fire out of it.

but for now they are saying he wasn't a gun guy - not a hunter - just a normal old fella with no experience with firearms, wellll I dunno. while it wouldn't be hard by any stretch of the imagination, this just doesn't seem to fit the bill.

I am eager to hear what weapon system he was using, how many total rounds fired, and maybe better topography of the scene - with all respects to the victims and their families, I doubt we'll see pics of wounds, but I'm curious to where these people were hit.

all and all this whole thing seems sketchy. I don't like any of it. sooo many variables floating around - ISIS is claiming it, sources said his hotel room is littered with Antifa propaganda - I don't believe any of it. the worst shooting in history will very well be the most shrouded in conspiracy one as well.

a reply to: Revolution9

This is not new, people in a bad place in life have acted out by blowing up, shooting, poisoning, knifing....people since those options were made available.

Sick people in a "free" country can do a bunch of damage until they are stopped.

originally posted by: Revolution9
a reply to: seasonal

He must have bee well tooled up. He would have needed loads of ammo. The guy was 64 years old??? I am much younger than him and I would have been struggling to pull of half of what he did. I think one SAS Officer or Seal would be struggling to pull it off.

The guy was like the Terminator.

You obviously have no idea what you're talking about.

He had a secure and elevated position, and all the time in the world. 10-15 minutes before they got to his door.

Generally speaking, a younger person probably could have tripled the damage in that amount of time.

I am looking for words to put in perspective the skill it would take to pull this off as a marksman. I would compare it to someone who has never played golf to walk on the course and par it.