Catalonia: Tyrannical Crackdown, Police Seize Ballots

a reply to: Irishhaf

I merely answered why you don't let the vote happen. How they are stopping it is on them.

I will admit that Spain is in a lose lose situation, sending in the National Guard and riot police almost guarantees someone gets hurt, and things have a serious chance to spiral out of control.

a reply to: LABTECH767

I wish them well, I wonder if this crackdown originated within Spain or the EU

My gut tells me the EU is behind this, pretty difficult to have a united Europe with factions wanting to break off and have independence.

If Madrid police crashes the referendum, it will be the end of the European dreams, at least for Spain which economy crumbles.

UK allowed Scottland to have referendum, allowed proper propaganda campaign for both sides, and the people chose to stay. Then UK had referendum to exit EU, and the people chose to exit. As we see, the world didn't end for Britain because it allowed the people to vote twice in so short time.

I bet the relations between the exit-EU Britain and the EU will be better, than the relations between a crackdown Spain and the rest of the EU.

I'm a global finance person, that bank in Spain that went under three months ago......that bank was huge into Silver shorting manipulation and friggin derivatives....I've been wondering why crap didn't start sooner

Catalonia independence, is just a trick by the European oligarchy to maintain power by divide and conquer.
Additionally, having this charade vote, which will not make Catalonia independent from anything because the are in the EU, they are trying to show to the world that the west welcomes these types of independence movements wherever they might be.
Same story, divide and conquer!

The reality will be significantly different on the ground though! The whole movements will backfire against the EU, and any smart ass who thinks it's cool to have independence in the 21st century.

The exact same thing is happening with the breton independence movement in France.

Police in using batons on what looks like normal people to me and at least one dog.

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a reply to: Flanker86

If Catalonia successfully gained independence, they would from that moment onwards be a "third nation", i.e., a non-member of the EU, and they would have to apply for membership like any other third nation.

The same applies to Scotland - if Scotland had voted out of the UK in 2014, they would still be outside the EU today. Application is a lengthy process, not a question of filling in a form and receiving a membership card in the post by return.

Only one way to secede from a fascist tyrannical government and that's down the barrel of a gun. It's the only thing they will finally understand. And if you dont think the Spanish government is fascist well you're certinly not looking hard enough. All the evidence you need is happening just now.

The referendum itself is not the real issue, it is the idea of independence that is, which is being promoted by so-called political separatist parties in Catalonia who are themselves seeking independence from Spain. However, if one is to believe the reports in the media, at least 60% of the Catalonian people do not want independence from Spain.

Is the EU involved? Possibly. It will certainly be advising, dictating to Spain what it expects from it during this crisis, and that it will want Spain to insure that any ideology for independence is soundly criticised and put down.

The police action is over the top, but an opportunity to make an example should not go amiss.

a reply to: elysiumfire

Is the EU involved? Possibly. It will certainly be advising, dictating to Spain what it expects from it during this crisis, and that it will want Spain to insure that any ideology for independence is soundly criticised and put down.

Unlikely (imho).

The European Union has signalled it is unlikely to intervene in the crisis unfolding in Spain over Catalan independence, saying it must respect the constitution of the country.

www.independent.co.uk... 6.html

It just did with that statement.

a reply to: elysiumfire

The EU is saying that it (i.e., the EU itself) must respect Spain's constitution. I think (read: can clearly see) that you have misread that bit you are quoting.

For all I know the Catalonian government declaring the referendum and independence are corrupt. It seems to me like they ran a good PR campaign they knew wouldn’t actually lead to independence. But now we are all talking about it and supporting Catalonia government.. GOOD PR!

I'm not sure why everyone is surprised by the violence. Imagine if California voted like this. There would be significant familial, financial, property-based and more valid reasons (IMO) that I could see violence being a normal reaction.

Ultimately, a people who vote for independence absolutely have taken the first step to more freedom. But it might take more, to include violence, in order to achieve it, and there are no guarantees.

a reply to: skynet2015

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable.” - John. F. Kennedy

After the nature of the crackdown and the popularity of the independence vote whether Spain recognize it or not Catalan will declare independence.
I hope it is a peaceful transition.

originally posted by: LABTECH767
After the nature of the crackdown and the popularity of the independence vote whether Spain recognize it or not Catalan will declare independence.
I hope it is a peaceful transition.

I don't see how it can be. As it was an illegal vote I doubt those opposed who didn't participate will just go along with it. That's the problem with illegal or non official referendums, those who don't participate don't have to consider the result valid based on those who did.

originally posted by: justwokeup

originally posted by: LABTECH767
After the nature of the crackdown and the popularity of the independence vote whether Spain recognize it or not Catalan will declare independence.
I hope it is a peaceful transition.

I don't see how it can be. As it was an illegal vote I doubt those opposed who didn't participate will just go along with it. That's the problem with illegal or non official referendums, those who don't participate don't have to consider the result valid based on those who did.

Heavy-handed crackdowns like this usually end up backfiring. Nobody likes being bullied. At this point, I think it's more likely than not that Catalonia's parliament will vote to unilaterally declare secession from Spain.