So the FBI was wiretapping people connected to Trump

a reply to: Grambler

Ahhh but what it also shows is the level of control going on behind the scenes here in the US. We had a govenrment using the FBI to spy on their political enemy then had the media cover it up...while using celebrities to further push the narrative as well and schools and universities. Not that every person considered to fit in one of those categories was "in on it" but it seems they had enough to sway opinion of most that are apart of those categories of people to use it all in concert and unified. That is one serious and scary display of power!

I missed a lot of facets but I'm pretty sure we all saw how stacked the deck was...and to peel back the curtain some and realize that power is true and in certain peoples hands is pretty staggering!

Trump knew Manafort was being monitored? Is that what he was tweeting about?

a reply to: Hazardous1408

If Ricky lives at my apartment complex, and my conversations with him are being tapped, I don't think its a strecth to say my phones in my tower were tapped.

But again, I am less concerned with rather Trump was completely correct in his statement more than I am the implication that a sitting president may have been using wiretaps and leaks from the intelligence community to smear a political rival.

That would be a bigger scandal than watergate or any russian collusion.

As far as Trump having anything to worry about, I have said since the beginning, if evidence comes out he was working with Russia to have them hack the election, impeach and imprison him.

But the fact there have been so many leaks, and this conversations have been wiretapped apparently well before Trump took office, and not on shred of evidence has arisen to remotely suggest anything of the sort, I would say Trump will be just fine.

And I didn't think what y9u typed derailed the thread; what fun would it be if everyone agreed?

But I would like to ask you, would you be disturbed if Obama was using the FBI to target political rivals to smear them?

a reply to: Hazardous1408

If you don't think that espionage is a real thing among our ruling class, then you have a good night sir.

Damn I miss the days when I didn't believe our government was corrupt. I think I was about 6 years old.

originally posted by: Hazardous1408
Soooo...

Trump still wasn't wiretapped by Obama as he wildly proclaimed...



Nothing burger with fries, yes?

"Well, here's what I know, we were just talking about responsibility and as president of the United States, it's pretty clear to me that I'm responsible for folks who are working in the federal government and you know, Harry Truman said the buck stops with you," Obama said.

www.weeklystandard.com...


Obama disagrees with you.

a reply to: Grambler

If Ricky lives at my apartment complex, and my conversations with him are being tapped, I don't think its a strecth to say my phones in my tower were tapped.

Yes, it's a stretch! Trump doesn't own all the phones in "his" tower. If Trump had conversations with people who were under a FISA warrant, then yes, those conversations were recorded. That doesn't mean that his phone was tapped or that he was the subject of a FISA warrant.

a reply to: Grambler

I just got home and haven't read/seen anything all day. In fact, I've been pretty busy recently and I haven't been keeping up much in the last week or two.

That said, from the other thread, it seems that Manafort had been under surveillance since 2014. Anyone who knows anything about Manafort shouldn't be surprised if it's true. Are you?

As for what Trump tweeted — it's still a lie. Look at your own breakdown:

he may have been incorrect in the use of the term wiretap, or that he personally was wiretapped

He wasn't under surveillance. Paul Manafort was under surveillance, and justifiably so based the preponderance of publicly available information about Mr. Manafort and his former and present dealings. And don't forget that the administration went so far as to accuse the British of having conducted the surveillance.

I've been saying since last year that if anyone goes down from Team Trump, it will be Manafort. It may not be for anything involving the Trump campaign, the guy has been neck deep in corruption the world 'round for half a century, most recently for a decade in the employ of Viktor Yanukovych.

originally posted by: Phage
Trump knew Manafort was being monitored? Is that what he was tweeting about?

Could be. More likely he was exaggerating.

Still doesn't change the fact that Trump tower may have indeed been wiretapped, and those conversations unmasked and leaked.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Grambler

If Ricky lives at my apartment complex, and my conversations with him are being tapped, I don't think its a strecth to say my phones in my tower were tapped.

If Trump had conversations with people who were under a FISA warrant, then yes, those conversations were recorded.

That's pretty much been an argument since this began.

Just because you have been recorded, doesn't mean you're under surveillance: but that the people you were talking with, were.

a reply to: Grambler

I'd be disturbed, absolutely... anyone would be.

But here's the rub...
You even say yourself, these taps were well in advance of Trump becoming President, let alone even in the realm of the period people actually believed he could win...

So I ask you, and anyone who wants to think about it, this question...
What good would it do to smear an opponent by tapping his cohorts, hoping to catch a bone on the off chance Trump even spoke to these people while tapped, but to then hope he actually incriminates himself while doing so...


Isn't it a whole lot more likely that these cohorts were just justified targets of a Russian scandal?

If they weren't, this investigation would be done and dusted by now.


I find it hard to believe the smear angle because there is too many ways it would go tits up (British idiom meaning wrong)!!!

a reply to: Grambler

Three maybes there.

Here's another. Maybe Trump is busted.

a reply to: Grambler

But I would like to ask you, would you be disturbed if Obama was using the FBI to target political rivals to smear them?

The better question to him would be would he be disturbed if Trump was using the FBI to target political rivals to smear them? I would guess yes.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Grambler

Three maybes there.

Here's another. Maybe Trump is busted.

How would Trump be busted?

a reply to: Hazardous1408

So I ask you, and anyone who wants to think about it, this question...
What good would it do to smear an opponent by tapping his cohorts, hoping to catch a bone on the off chance Trump even spoke to these people while tapped, but to then hope he actually incriminates himself while doing so...


Isn't it a whole lot more likely that these cohorts were just justified targets of a Russian scandal?

Exactly. It goes much deeper than we know.

Trump (personally), is a fall guy, a pawn enshrouded in his own ego, or so it seems, to something ever deeper and darker. I don't think he even knows his role.

ETA:

But if he does, if he's in it, there's little he can do.

a reply to: 3daysgone

Didn't you hear? His conversations with Manafort might have been picked up by the FBI. He might have had a Nixon moment.

a reply to: Hazardous1408

So I ask you, and anyone who wants to think about it, this question... What good would it do to smear an opponent by tapping his cohorts, hoping to catch a bone on the off chance Trump even spoke to these people while tapped, but to then hope he actually incriminates himself while doing so...

What good? Hilary could have been President. Even though that wouldn't be good.

a reply to: theantediluvian

Then why do the sources say that the original warrant was dropped against manafort due to lack of evidence?

The Doj felt there was not enough evidence to charge Manafort.

But the suddenly, they felt the need to keep wiretapping him knowing he was communicating with Trump.

And info on people caught on taps was being unmasked. And there were leaks to the media.

Tony Podesta had dealings with Russia, where he was getting paid to push to remove sanctions, and he didn't properly register.

yet where were all of the wiretaps on him, and media leaks about Hillary people and Russian collusion, and unmasking involving that?

The fact os the evidence is painting a clear picture that Obama used the intelligence services to spy on and leak damaging info about Trump and his associates.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: 3daysgone

Didn't you hear? His conversations with Manafort might have been picked up by the FBI. He might have had a Nixon moment.

I couldn't see anyone simply sitting on that big of a bombshell. Stranger things have happened however.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Grambler

Three maybes there.

Here's another. Maybe Trump is busted.

here is another, Maybe Obama is.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: 3daysgone

Didn't you hear? His conversations with Manafort might have been picked up by the FBI. He might have had a Nixon moment.

How would that be a Nixon moment?