The Power Principle of redirecting real grievances of the people toward irrelevant enemies

The big misnomer here is that communism is the opposite of capitalism and will somehow fix a broken system when in reality all it does is manage the already broken system to the benefit of those who seize power in the wake of the shift change.

Ergo, utterly pointless.

How about some new ideas instead of recycled failed ones?

a reply to: ketsuko

Clearly put kets.. You focus on the poor pols where op and I focus on the corporate power. Maybe it is that you still hold out hope of us finding and electing pols who can manage to fight off the temptations they are offered whereas I do not.

While i do not ascribe to the idea that it is a mans fault who falls to a satanic temptation, that the man should be blamed for his failure and not satan, were we to keep to that metaphor, man already is under satan''s control and doomed to failure. Likewise, should we hold to that concept, pols, along with all of us are already subject to the power and temptations of the corporation.

I agree with you on placing the onus on men/pols, yet think it short sighted to not point the finger as heavily at the larger power structure which is strangling us all.

a reply to: ketsuko

Whatever honest gains lobbyists have made for businesses isn't worth the negative effect they have on politics in this country. It's time for something different.

Getting rid of lobbyists doesn't mean silencing businesses input on issues concerning them either. There has to be a way to keep the money from influencing our government the way it does now.

originally posted by: sooth
The big misnomer here is that communism is the opposite of capitalism and will somehow fix a broken system when in reality all it does is manage the already broken system to the benefit of those who seize power in the wake of the shift change.

Ergo, utterly pointless.

How about some new ideas instead of recycled failed ones?

I have to agree with you here sooth. The major example being Russia. Even Lenin warned about letting Stalin anywhere near the main power center.

But what do we do to find these new Ideas you ask for. To my mind what will happen is that as Marx suggested, if capitalism wins over other economic programs, it will slither away and leave us back in a feudalist state with the corporations as the feudal lords. It may be the best we can hope for.

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

And again, you shift the blame.

The biggest complaint everyone has about systems like communism and socialism is that they just haven't found the right people to run them yet.

The common denominator in every failure in all systems ever devised by mankind is ... mankind himself.

We are the flaw. For every good and decent person you will find who abides by the rules and is decent and not out to be ruled by greed, you will find the ones who are only out to grab what power and influence they can.

This is why I believe in systems that give maximal power to the individual. It doesn't stop people from being awful, but it does help spread out the power so that more people have enough power to minimize the damage the truly awful ones can do. When everyone is forcibly combined into a collective, and the corruption takes over, no one can escape and you get Venezuela or the final stages of Russia or even North Korea.

a reply to: dfnj2015

The path to power comes from false populism where real grievances of the people are redirected to irrelevant enemies:

Please define a real grievance of the people, so as it would befit to qualify as a real grievance.

Lobbyists own the politicians. And the CEOs own the lobbyists. The problems with our country are not rocket science. The lobbyists force the politicians to pass laws creating cartels and monopolies in exchange for campaign financing. Fascism is an instrument where the plutocracy destroys the middle class creating economic slavery.

I agree.

President Trump Signs 5-Year Lobbying Ban for Administration Officials

time.com...

At least this is a step in the right direction, or so I believe it is.

"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power." Benito Mussolini

I am not sure if I would believe Benito, because he couldn't even choose the right side to be on.

But do not fear my comrades. Every year the top 1% become richer and richer. Every year the middle class is driven deeper and deeper into poverty wages. Marx said laissez faire capitialism is always followed by communism because unfettered greed would result in a government's currency collapse. Once the currency collapses people in bread lines will DEMAND more government not less.

Laissez Faire Capitalism. "Laissez Faire" is French for "leave alone" which means that the government leaves the people alone regarding all economic activities. It is the separation of economy and state. There are two ways that a government typically is tempted to interfere with the economy.

www.google.com...

Well if you consider all the rules a company has to follow we are definitely not a Laissez Faire Capitalistic society. Maybe with a little more people who can pull up some boot straps and be willing to work hard things will turn around. Maybe more people will figure out that if you want to live in any society you should at least try to make it a better society. Some people have forgotten JFK, but not everyone.

See you in the breadlines comrades!

Some are already there with their EBT cards waiting.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: TerryMcGuire

And again, you shift the blame.

The biggest complaint everyone has about systems like communism and socialism is that they just haven't found the right people to run them yet.

The common denominator in every failure in all systems ever devised by mankind is ... mankind himself.

We are the flaw. For every good and decent person you will find who abides by the rules and is decent and not out to be ruled by greed, you will find the ones who are only out to grab what power and influence they can.

This is why I believe in systems that give maximal power to the individual. It doesn't stop people from being awful, but it does help spread out the power so that more people have enough power to minimize the damage the truly awful ones can do. When everyone is forcibly combined into a collective, and the corruption takes over, no one can escape and you get Venezuela or the final stages of Russia or even North Korea.

Yet I do not see it as shifting the blame. You believe in systems that give maximal power to the individual. OK. All of that sounds right by me.

You also say ''
The biggest complaint everyone has about systems like communism and socialism is that they just haven't found the right people to run them yet.'' And isn't that the very same thing that you say about the government, that we just haven't found pols who will not sell us out? I don't understand the difference in your position here

originally posted by: dfnj2015
The path to power comes from false populism where real grievances of the people are redirected to irrelevant enemies:

Lobbyists own the politicians. And the CEOs own the lobbyists. The problems with our country are not rocket science. The lobbyists force the politicians to pass laws creating cartels and monopolies in exchange for campaign financing. Fascism is an instrument where the plutocracy destroys the middle class creating economic slavery.

"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power." Benito Mussolini

But do not fear my comrades. Every year the top 1% become richer and richer. Every year the middle class is driven deeper and deeper into poverty wages. Marx said laissez faire capitialism is always followed by communism because unfettered greed would result in a government's currency collapse. Once the currency collapses people in bread lines will DEMAND more government not less.

See you in the breadlines comrades!

Right on the button there mate, thanks

Looks like a case of Semantics,the post is a bunch of nonsense,no logic to it,just because you saw something on Youtube,all sorts of crazy ideas on there

a reply to: intrptr

So make one up. The most amazing thing about the succession of recent enemies appointed by the Establishment is that every single one was convicted on the same charges.... Evil dictators and WMD.

I like the quote in the film where they tell us that there is more money spent on air conditioning for the military than is the NASA budget", if that's true how does one justify this...?
As you can see by just looking around there is no shortage of people all to happy to be dumbed down and content at the expense of an unknown enemy.

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

As you can see by just looking around there is no shortage of people all to happy to be dumbed down and content at the expense of an unknown enemy.

Judging by the reception to that post, plenty of them, right here.

Thats what is so appaling, jumping onto the current hate bandwagon, because its going by...

the internet is like this huge hungry beast, dying to be fed anything; gobble it down, regurgitate and gobble again.

People seem to have lost their personal identity, their checks and balances filter is permanently turned off.

Only thing I can compare it to is a mob mentality. Pitchforks and torches, horses and hoods, storming about in the dark seeking whom to lynch.

The head iynch mobsters only have to dangle a carrot and point the finger, and awaaay we go.

a reply to: ketsuko

Did you even watch the video or are you just spewing out diarrhea from your mount?

originally posted by: Oldtimer2
Looks like a case of Semantics,the post is a bunch of nonsense,no logic to it,just because you saw something on Youtube,all sorts of crazy ideas on there

Or, you are a closed minded fool. Don't even post next time unless you at least watch the first 3 minutes.

a reply to: ketsuko

You are a closed minded. People working at casinos handle tons of money and they are capable of self-governance. There's a reason why most of the cameras are pointed at the money handlers. There is a reason why most of the safe guards around handling money are present. We can come up with a system of government that works. The reason why we don't is organized crime is making too much money running the government.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

The problem with corruption is that it exists no matter what your system is or how you set it up. It is part of the inherent condition of being human.

The less moral a society is; the more corruption you will inevitably find.

Rules, regs, and laws are only as good as the people willing to abide by them in spirit as well as letter.

It's not like human nature is not predictable. We can create a system of governance with checks and balances. It's just that organized crime running the government will not allow it to be created.

a reply to: dfnj2015

Thanks for reminding me of something regarding Obama, the people, and Trump! Will start the thread later 2 day.

a reply to: carewemust

I'm glad I was able to help.

a reply to: dfnj2015

Man DFNJ, IMO that was a really well written and thoughtful post. Right to the heart of it.

I can kind of agree with some of the other posters that we need to hold these politicians accountable to the same extent as the lobbyist and corporations. But judging by history, our politicians will sell their soul at the drop of a hat. Our antitrust laws are so watered down they are useless or they are just outright ignored. Maybe it is time to start applying RICO laws to these conglomerates.

Knowing human nature and our history of not holding our politicians accountable, we need to find some way to take the lobbyists out of the equation and make it harder if not impossible to buy off our politicians.

Dreaming, I know.

a reply to: ketsuko

Without campaign financing a politician has no power. So yes, it is force through leverage.

It's very simple. Money talks, everything you post is BS.

a reply to: ClovenSky

I share your dream.