The Power Principle of redirecting real grievances of the people toward irrelevant enemies

The path to power comes from false populism where real grievances of the people are redirected to irrelevant enemies:



Lobbyists own the politicians. And the CEOs own the lobbyists. The problems with our country are not rocket science. The lobbyists force the politicians to pass laws creating cartels and monopolies in exchange for campaign financing. Fascism is an instrument where the plutocracy destroys the middle class creating economic slavery.

"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power." Benito Mussolini

But do not fear my comrades. Every year the top 1% become richer and richer. Every year the middle class is driven deeper and deeper into poverty wages. Marx said laissez faire capitialism is always followed by communism because unfettered greed would result in a government's currency collapse. Once the currency collapses people in bread lines will DEMAND more government not less.

See you in the breadlines comrades!

a reply to: dfnj2015

No one forces the politicians to pass anything.

The politicians do it because they are greedy.

Take another look at the title of your thread. You are redirecting your actual grievance at an irrelevant enemy.

a reply to: dfnj2015

What's your solution?

a reply to: dfnj2015

Are you some sort of Communist?

I can't take someone who quotes Karl Marx seriously. His entire philosophy revolves around everyone being equally unhappy and miserable.

a reply to: dfnj2015

The path to power comes from false populism where real grievances of the people are redirected to irrelevant enemies:

Relevant to the corporatocracy because the 'chosen enemy' is usually their next victim. Can't have a war if theres no enemy.

So make one up. The most amazing thing about the succession of recent enemies appointed by the Establishment is that every single one was convicted on the same charges.... Evil dictators and WMD.

How many times the dumbed down public will buy that remains to be seen.

Divide and rule the british empire called it. This stuff is at least as old ancient rome. You dont have to agree with someone philosphically to meet minds on this iron law of human societies across all of recorded history. Dig into the robberbarrons for choice insights of how this plays out in our "civilization". Then check out silicon valley.

a reply to: ketsuko

What does it matter whether they're forced to or do it out of greed? The end result is the same.

If they don't agree to the lobbyists' terms they do not get paid and probably don't have a very long or successful political career.

What would help would be a separation of business and state, kind of like the separation of church and state.

But for that to happen, you'd have to convince politicians to stop being politicians, and to work for the people. And that won't happen while there's money to be made.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: ketsuko

What does it matter whether they're forced to or do it out of greed? The end result is the same.

If they don't agree to the lobbyists' terms they do not get paid and probably don't have a very long or successful political career.

Yes, it matters.

When you say "forced," it implies they have no choice, that the impetus for what they do is all external and none of the blame is their own.

But the reality is that they have the choice and the power. They do not have to listen to lobbyists. They are the ones who make the laws that all, including business, must abide by. They can make laws for the good of the people ... or they can choose, of their own will, to be bought.

If they choose to be bought, then the fault lies with them for giving in to the temptation and no one else, not the lobbyists of big business or anyone else.

I suppose another way to look at it is to take the perspective of religion.

If Satan comes to you and offers you the entire world but you have to sell out everyone else, even those you care about most in the world for it, and you take his offer, the blame doesn't lie with Satan. He is only doing what Satan does. The blame lies with you as the world and everyone you love burn around you but you prosper. And when the end comes and you burn in your turn in hell, the blame is still yours.

Satan can't take your soul by force. You made the choice to sell it.

This is the same thing.

So the OP's contention is that we should focus our blame on business and lobbyists (Satan), but in the end, it's the politicians who have the real power and control for all they are greedy enough to endlessly sell it out.

And if you want to dig even deeper than that, who is it that pulls the levers to put the politicians in their positions in the first place?

You and me.

originally posted by: underwerks
What would help would be a separation of business and state, kind of like the separation of church and state.

But for that to happen, you'd have to convince politicians to stop being politicians, and to work for the people. And that won't happen while there's money to be made.

But then you start to talk about what that means. You just implied an end to regulation. Aren't regulations an entanglement of business and state?

a reply to: ketsuko

There should be regulations to keep the robberbarron iterations and permutations in check. Problem is the the union of robberbarrons and rulers the regulations tend to always just squeeze the little guys which is disastrous on a free society. So then one half stays positioned against "regulations" becuse look how bad they are, and the other half keeps pushing for "regulations" because they need to exist, and then its effortless for Them to keep us all pitted against each other.

a reply to: Metallicus

Naaa, screw the workers. People get what they deserve.

a reply to: DBCowboy

My solution is don't do anything. Everything is fine just the way it is.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

The problem with corruption is that it exists no matter what your system is or how you set it up. It is part of the inherent condition of being human.

The less moral a society is; the more corruption you will inevitably find.

Rules, regs, and laws are only as good as the people willing to abide by them in spirit as well as letter.

a reply to: ketsuko

Take another look at the title of your thread. You are redirecting your actual grievance at an irrelevant enemy.

You say op is redirecting grievances to irrelevant enemies. Yet OP has clearly stated that OP perceives corporations as the enemy. There is no ''redirection'' there at all. It is clear.

I find it interesting that you, by your statements, perceive corporate power, corporate control of the world economy to be irrelevant. Is that what you are saying?

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: underwerks
What would help would be a separation of business and state, kind of like the separation of church and state.

But for that to happen, you'd have to convince politicians to stop being politicians, and to work for the people. And that won't happen while there's money to be made.

But then you start to talk about what that means. You just implied an end to regulation. Aren't regulations an entanglement of business and state?

Business needs regulation to keep it somewhat honest. With zero regulations we'd be living in a corporate hell hole even worse than where we're at now. With public safety always taking a back seat to profits.

When I mention a separation of business and state, I mean an end to big businesses influence on government.

a reply to: ketsuko

And then there is when its stacked to run amok. Then it all ends up pointing bot much different than if under total communism. Which is where we are. And everyone too busy arguing about orgasm and plastic surgical genitalia etc to identify the common enemy.

a reply to: ketsuko

Well I'd say you're splitting hairs. Fact is lobbyists control our politicians and corporations/CEO's control the lobbyists. What we have in America is a thinly veiled corporatocracy where special interests decide our laws and what is headline news.

I don't think whether they're forced or not really makes a difference in the end because it's happening either way.

And if you want to dig even deeper than that, who is it that pulls the levers to put the politicians in their positions in the first place?

You and me.

I don't believe that to be true and in my opinion you aren't paying enough attention if you do.

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
a reply to: ketsuko

Take another look at the title of your thread. You are redirecting your actual grievance at an irrelevant enemy.

You say op is redirecting grievances to irrelevant enemies. Yet OP has clearly stated that OP perceives corporations as the enemy. There is no ''redirection'' there at all. It is clear.

I find it interesting that you, by your statements, perceive corporate power, corporate control of the world economy to be irrelevant. Is that what you are saying?

I am saying he's blaming the politicians for what they are doing, but looking past them to the corporations who tempt the pols.

The pols are the ones who make the laws, not the corporations. The corporations merely lobby or temp. Perhaps you should read my second post about it.

Again, if Satan comes to you and offers you the world if you sell out your soul and everyone you love and you do it. Do you blame Satan for the consequences or yourself?

Satan can't take your soul. You have to sell it out.

Similarly, the corps can't make laws. The politicians can. If the politicians refuse to do what the corps and their lobbyists want, then there isn't much the corps can immediately do.

It's the politicians who sell us out, not the corporations. They are always going to be there tempting for what is advantageous to them, just like you and I are going to be looking for our advantage. What we should be demanding is men and women who can resist the temptation of the lobbyists.

originally posted by: underwerks

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: underwerks
What would help would be a separation of business and state, kind of like the separation of church and state.

But for that to happen, you'd have to convince politicians to stop being politicians, and to work for the people. And that won't happen while there's money to be made.

But then you start to talk about what that means. You just implied an end to regulation. Aren't regulations an entanglement of business and state?

Business needs regulation to keep it somewhat honest. With zero regulations we'd be living in a corporate hell hole even worse than where we're at now. With public safety always taking a back seat to profits.

When I mention a separation of business and state, I mean an end to big businesses influence on government.

Then you really aren't advocating for a separation, are you?

If the government has power over you, don't you think you should have some say in the process?

I get what upsets you about the lobbying process, but at the same time, do you fully understand how exactly it works in all its facets? My husband would be better to explain it because he does belong to a lobbying organization for his trade.

Sometimes, regulatory agencies want to change rules, and the people who work in those agencies don't understand the practical side of the businesses they regulate. For example you might get a person who thinks that a bigger number is always better as a standard, but when making a vaccine that's not always the case and could actually end up making your product toxic.

It's the job of a lobbying group to gather information and evidence to go before the regulators and push back against proposed rule changes that would actually be detrimental rather than helpful. And I am not talking about that in the sense of simply hurting bottom line but in the sense of "we don't want our products to start killing livestock because of this change" type of push back.