WATCH LIVE 7 PM PT: Hurricane Ben Hits Berkeley

a reply to: network dude

Thanks for your opinion. Does that have to do with anything discussion related?

Or did you just want to talk about me?

Always good to hear from a fan.



ETA: Oh, and PS ... "Physician, heal thyself."

a reply to: Gryphon66

Just a public service for the severely hypocritical. You are welcome.

a reply to: Gryphon66

He told that person the truth.

If someone digs up their skeleton one day and does both an analysis of it and the DNA, they'll call the individual male because they are. No amount of medical alteration can change that. No amount of wishful thinking can change that.

You can reject reality and substitute your own all you want, but your genes and your skeleton tell you the truth.

And, yes, I know it's convenient to claim that sex and gender are different when it suits you, but for someone who has told us over and over again that you are gay, I would think transgenderism would concern you.

You, yourself, base part of your identity off the rock solid assumption you can only feel sexual attraction to people of the same sex and that this is a biological fact. Now, here come the transgenders who tell you that biological sex is unimportant, mental gender is the most important thing. If you can't see how the two positions clash, especially when you have transgender activists who now go around telling us that people who are unwilling to seek out partners of differing biological sexes to suit their gender preferences are bigots ... is beyond me.

a reply to: Gryphon66

The important thing is that regardless of what you think of shapiro, you defend his right to speak and condemn violence to stop him.

We are in total agreement there.

But you keep calling him extreme right? Why do you believe that? He dislikes trump, isn't as antagonistic as soemone like milo, and doesn't advocate any violence whatsoever.

So what postions of his do you consider extreme?

The problem is by calling him extreme or fringe, and claiming he only wanted to speak at a liberal college for publicity or to agitate, you make it easy to ignore anything he says.

The right does this too. If I called obama or Hillary an extreme or fringe leftists, it would allow me to ignore their points.

I think this causes more division and an end to dialogue.

I saw many self proclaimed liberals ask Shapiro questions and deeply disagree with Shapiro at this speech. They were inteligent and polite. Had they wrote Ben off as extreme, their contributions would have not been heard.

a reply to: ketsuko

Their biological sex was male. Gender is not biological sex. You can deny that reality, or accept it.

Why would someone else's gender identity change anything for me, Ketz? Unlike some, what other people think about themselves doesn't usually affect me in the slightest. Also, your assumptions about what I personally find attractive or arousing are interesting ... but out of place in this context.

Your posts are full of silly ignorant analogies like you're attempting here. You don't understand the reality of what being gay means, or trans* ... you only want to attempt to sound knowledgable about them by using the equivalent of dictionary definitions. You have assigned your own categories to other people's subjective experiences ... and you fail to see that by doing that you're only revealing your own prejudices and limitations.

You aren't even dealing with other peoples' real feelings or identities ... you're just using us as "props' for another silly tirade that fits your narrative.

Why does what other people think and believe about themselves have to do with you personally?

a reply to: Grambler

As it happens, I agree with Mr. Shapiro on many legal and economic points. I disagree almost 100% on social and personal issues. Based at least on the research I've done.

As I've said many times, aside from rhetoric, the illusion of "sides" and therefore "fringe" is limited.

bigger question is, did xue get to meet his idol?
you would only refer to someone being hurricane like if they were gonna wreck you.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Grambler

As it happens, I agree with Mr. Shapiro on many legal and economic points. I disagree almost 100% on social and personal issues. Based at least on the research I've done.

As I've said many times, aside from rhetoric, the illusion of "sides" and therefore "fringe" is limited.

Ok But then why call him extreme right or fringe and claim he was agitating or only seeking publicity?

It's all warm and fuzzy to claim there are not sides, and labels are dumb, but this is unrealistic and allows problems to be covered up.

The fact is that a bunch of people at Berkeley that felt Shapiro was extreme and have used violence in the past caused a need for 600 thousand dollars in security so that a conservative could speak.

This is a huge problem, and why I feel we ought to be careful in who we label extreme.

originally posted by: growler
bigger question is, did xue get to meet his idol?
you would only refer to someone being hurricane like if they were gonna wreck you.

You are a self proclaimed antifa member.

Do you think Shapiro should have been allowed to speak?

Looking a this issue from a general perspective, all I can say is that universities are places where free speech goes to die.

This who issue should have been a non-event. Some guy goes to a university to speak.

*meh*

People have been speaking at universities for ever.

Some have even protested.

Again, *meh* .

I watched about 10 minutes of his speech. It wasn't bad and he made some good points. I don't know about the rest of what he said, but what I heard didn't sound fringe at all. I only stopped watching because the feed had an annoying reverb to it.

a reply to: Grambler

I'm not going to go into any more depth with my word choice or opinions; I've made myself clear.

I completely disagree with your statement that investing any more into the idea of "right and left" has any value. We need to address issues firmly and factually regardless of party or shallow ideology.

The fact is that people have a right to assemble and speak their minds. Shapiro and his audience did that, as well as the protestors. The people who have caused violence in the past are not on any given "side" or perhaps we could say that "both sides were violent" since that seems to be the acceptable apology around here ... but here's my take on Berkeley's problems: if people commit assault or vandalism, we don't need to type cast them to suit our own narratives ... we need to enforce the law and move on.

It makes just as much sense to blame Mr. Shapiro for choosing such a generally hostile venue. The fact is that security costs money, and due to public pressure, Berkeley provided more security for this event.

I'd be glad to see a reduction in the use of purely rhetorical labelling around here, Grambler, but I'm not holding my breath.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Well be the change you want to see.

You labeled him extreme and fringe right, which is exactly what those trying to silence him did.

You can use or not use whatever labels you like.

The fact is that insane security, violence to silence speech, etc. seems to only happen against conservative speakers.

Would you suggest every time anyone wants to speak a half a million in security should be in place every time?

Or should we idenify the groups causing this violence and those they target, and try to get to the root of the problem?

a reply to: Grambler

Right back at you Grambler.

He is fringe right on many issues, and not on others. Why are you so obsessed with labels? Isn't your philosophy that words don't hurt people, and no one has the right not to be offended?

The fact is that political violence is on the rise in this country. Coding it to fit a narrative is BS; let's deal with the problem.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Grambler

Right back at you Grambler.

He is fringe right on many issues, and not on others. Why are you so obsessed with labels? Isn't your philosophy that words don't hurt people, and no one has the right not to be offended?

The fact is that political violence is on the rise in this country. Coding it to fit a narrative is BS; let's deal with the problem.

Name me the issues he is fringe right on.

This has nothing to do with being offended.

Rape is a disgusting problem that we will always have to fight.

Should we refrain from mentioning the fact the most rapes are committed by men? Should we not use labels when we tell the women in our lives how to protect tjselves, and pretend old women are just as likely to assualt them as young men?

Of course not, that would be absurd.

The fact is we see over and over and over that it is conservative speakers and those who wish to hear them that are targeted with this violence, and have to spend huge amounts of money just to have free speech.

Show me just one example of people rioting to stop a liberal speaker.

It might feel all warm and fuzzy to claim we shouldn't label anything, but it ignores the problem.

a reply to: Grambler

Sure it has to do with being offended and being stuck on words ... you're making that clear in every post.

As to my opinion on his relationship to the "fringe"?

Shapiro was an editor at Breitbart which is about as fringe right as one can get, short of the KKK and ANP.

Since resigning from there (an admirable act IMO) he founded The Daily Wire, again, qualifies as a fringe-right publication based on their output.

From what I've read and listened to so far, his positions qualify as fringe from my perspective on LGBT rights, the social safety net, and religion.

He's a very mixed bag in terms of his positions.

Labeling is rhetoric; rhetoric doesn't address the problems we face. I've said all on this particular issue Im going to say.

a reply to: Gryphon66

You are against labels, and yet in that very post label breitbart as fringe and mention the kkk.

You enjoy thrwing out labels when it's convenient for you, but don't want people to use a label when identifying those using or threatening violence to censor right wing speech.

a reply to: Gryphon66



Hand in hand with your stance throughout this thread, that Shapiro is agitating, take a look at this new thread about a ''Free Speech Week'' coming up in Berkeley.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Looks like the provocation is doubling down.

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
a reply to: Gryphon66



Hand in hand with your stance throughout this thread, that Shapiro is agitating, take a look at this new thread about a ''Free Speech Week'' coming up in Berkeley.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Looks like the provocation is doubling down.

I saw it. This kind of spectacle fits in perfectly with the hateful ideology of folks like Colter and Milo particularly. (I guess Milo thinks that everyone has forgotten his pro-pedophilia comments).

Sooner than later, the line will be crossed from speech acts to incitement. Then, one can only hope that our "law and order" friends here are consistent with their beliefs and roundly condemn such behavior.

Pardon me if I don't hold my breath.

They advertize these Hurricanes like they're advertising the latest Starwars movie.