What God and why?

a reply to: Blindmancc


Yeah to a degree
My point is all the atheists saying that christians have to go through a church, through a priest, through a system to attain God
when that is clearly not the case according to scripture

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Metallicus

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: chr0naut

The rules of Christianity were made by men and not God. Asking anyone to take something on 'faith' is a cop out and forces us to suspend all reason. While I generally think positively of Christians; it is difficult to ignore the implied arrogance of their position which is essentially that they hold some secret knowledge over the rest of us. It is condescending whether or not it is intentional.

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the God who endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended for us to forgo their use." - Galileo Galilei

What rules?
seriously do you have any idea what you are talking about met? Because I am lost

Nowhere in the bible are we told not to reason, thats in your head

If you were to reason then the entire Christian religion defies logic.

as does every one of your posts so far

Why come here?

For intelligent repartee.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
What
Scotsman, its not about Scotland
Its not a joke

It is an informal fallacy, No true Scotsman
Here it would be you arguing that those who act a certain way are not real christians because "No True Christian" would act that way.

Your comments are silly
I am not defending the church or christians, bizzare tangent, are you trying to pull stars?

Noinden's point was about the church socially manipulating the congregation (brainwashing them) to control them.

Other religions are not about service to a jealous god. It isn't a tangent from what I believe noinden was talking about.

Honestly, I don't even know what you are talking about.

a reply to: Raggedyman

How about the Fear of not being in control. If I can't do something to fix my guilt then I will find a someone or something that says iam justified. It gets tough though when the best option is a God who's love you can't control.

We are good and making stuff up. When you look at other religions and gods you can see the pattern of control. Not the gods controlling them but them controls the gods to fit this twisted need rid themselves of guilt and shame.

The Christisan God is somethigh very diffrent. Something unexpected and scandalous in some ways that totally bucks the trend of little g gods.

The Christian religion has a hard time letting God be God. They too get mystified and lost in their own attempts to control God. Sadly this is what turns away many who come seeking this truth in love. They have an awesome God but look and smell like all the other ones.

All bow to the mighty avocado!

a reply to: Raggedyman

Why do you care what other people think about Christians?

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: Raggedyman
What
Scotsman, its not about Scotland
Its not a joke

It is an informal fallacy, No true Scotsman
Here it would be you arguing that those who act a certain way are not real christians because "No True Christian" would act that way.

Your comments are silly
I am not defending the church or christians, bizzare tangent, are you trying to pull stars?

Noinden's point was about the church socially manipulating the congregation (brainwashing them) to control them.

Other religions are not about service to a jealous god. It isn't a tangent from what I believe noinden was talking about.

Honestly, I don't even know what you are talking about.

I know what noindens point was about mojo, its wrong, noindens wrong
Christians dont need the church to get to God, thats my point

Cant be manipulated by people you dont need. Get it?

Christianity is not about service to a jealous God, you are wrong, honestly you dont know what I am takling about, cos you are wrong, you dont get it

Dont tell me whats clear, you dont get it, I know you dont get it.

Christianity is not about service to a jealous God, its a response of love to a loving God

a reply to: Raggedyman

Christianity is not about service to a jealous God, its a response of love to a loving God

I haven't seen any love in your responses to people that have come to your thread. Maybe if you explained yourself better and showed a little patience you wouldn't need to be so snippy.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: Blindmancc


Yeah to a degree
My point is all the atheists saying that christians have to go through a church, through a priest, through a system to attain God
when that is clearly not the case according to scripture

It is true according to scripture that all who serve God must serve him through a channel. The notion that a person can serve God independently is false. It is false because all scriptural indication is that God has a specific way of administrating his knowledge. As a follower you must plug into it. Not many will ever find the channel, even those who claim to follow God. Hopefully they do.

>

originally posted by: Raggedyman
I know what noindens point was about mojo, its wrong, noindens wrong
Christians dont need the church to get to God, thats my point

That was never said in the post you quoted.

I would have never guessed that that was your point.

Cant be manipulated by people you dont need. Get it?

Still, people are manipulated by the church.

Christianity is not about service to a jealous God, you are wrong, honestly you dont know what I am takling about, cos you are wrong, you dont get it

That is your fall back excuse. Yeah, nobody who disagrees gets it.

When I talk about christianity I talk about mainstream christianity, what they teach and what the bible says.

You want to talk about your "denomination" well those are not the ones people are usually complaining about.

a reply to: Raggedyman

What does (do you think) christianity teach that causes offence

Christianity is not one, it is a disparate collection of views. It ranges from Universalism (all people will be saved because Jesus) all the way to extreme personality cult ("Jesus appointed me to be your Apostle or Prophet or Guide. Follow my instruction or Jesus won't save you. All those others calling themselves Christian are false and lost. If they were true then they would be following me.")

Having specified the broad spectrum, the common offensive element is the need for salvation.

What control does chritianity have that is shouldnt

The need for salvation and the teaching that such can be acquired and that Christians know what it is and how it can be acquired. If I understand this correctly it goes like this: Without Christ you will die. With Christ you will not die but live forever. Death is either an illusion or else it will be cancelled for the "saved" (those who got salvation).

Why cant christians choose another deity if they wish, obviously they wont be christian but is anyone forced?

Sure people are forced. Parents force their children. Authoritative and peer pressure is a force. Usually, physical removal (like going away to college or joining the military or death of parents or guardians) is required.

Then, to choose other gods or no gods at all, is to lose the psychology of salvation. Many gods don't offer such a thing.

a reply to: Sheye

That's not what The Bible says. It states emphatically "my God is a jealous God." He/she doesn't want you worshipping other Gods. Have you read The Bible? Your comments are completely out of sync with Christianity.

I would not choose to have a God.

In history, the "Bible" or any other historical documents, a God or Gods mostly punished and killed humans and forced them into some sort of physical, emotional, mental slavery.

No, thank you.

I don't believe in Intelligent Design.
I do believe in Stupid Design.
Testicles, for example.
What genius drew those blue-prints?

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: Raggedyman

What does (do you think) christianity teach that causes offence

Christianity is not one, it is a disparate collection of views. It ranges from Universalism (all people will be saved because Jesus) all the way to extreme personality cult ("Jesus appointed me to be your Apostle or Prophet or Guide. Follow my instruction or Jesus won't save you. All those others calling themselves Christian are false and lost. If they were true then they would be following me.")

Having specified the broad spectrum, the common offensive element is the need for salvation.

What control does chritianity have that is shouldnt

The need for salvation and the teaching that such can be acquired and that Christians know what it is and how it can be acquired. If I understand this correctly it goes like this: Without Christ you will die. With Christ you will not die but live forever. Death is either an illusion or else it will be cancelled for the "saved" (those who got salvation).

Why cant christians choose another deity if they wish, obviously they wont be christian but is anyone forced?

Sure people are forced. Parents force their children. Authoritative and peer pressure is a force. Usually, physical removal (like going away to college or joining the military or death of parents or guardians) is required.

Then, to choose other gods or no gods at all, is to lose the psychology of salvation. Many gods don't offer such a thing.

A lot of that is opinion and misinformation, its not christianity
Universalism is not christianity and ois not supported
Nor is the personality cult part, not denying either as factual, but they are not scriptual.

The need for salvation is not offencive, if it is why.
Dont like justice, no need for responsibility

Outside of that, dont believe in responsibility or justice, then no need for salvation, in comes free will.
Its might be scary but its no more offencive than a speeding ticket, prison for a burgular, rehab for a druggie

Yes, choice is stolen, though, christianity doesnt teach force. It just doesnt
many do walk away, no big deal

Your arguments are valid, no question.
But not clear based on what true christianity teaches, even the true but clouded christianity

originally posted by: Justso
a reply to: Sheye

That's not what The Bible says. It states emphatically "my God is a jealous God." He/she doesn't want you worshipping other Gods. Have you read The Bible? Your comments are completely out of sync with Christianity.

But you must understand who is being addressed in the message

originally posted by: skunkape23
All bow to the mighty avocado!

I only bow to the avocado when it's on the ground.
The non-initiate may think I am bending to pick it up.
When I raise my hands up they think I am picking it from the tree.

Either way, when I eat it, I am filled with the power of the Mighty Avocado.

originally posted by: Justso
I would not choose to have a God.

In history, the "Bible" or any other historical documents, a God or Gods mostly punished and killed humans and forced them into some sort of physical, emotional, mental slavery.

No, thank you.

Like what and where
Just a little bit of effort so I dont think you are just venting like a teen with no idea at all but what you have heard from your sibblings

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: chr0naut

The rules of Christianity were made by men and not God. Asking anyone to take something on 'faith' is a cop out and forces us to suspend all reason. While I generally think positively of Christians; it is difficult to ignore the implied arrogance of their position which is essentially that they hold some secret knowledge over the rest of us. It is condescending whether or not it is intentional.

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the God who endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended for us to forgo their use." - Galileo Galilei

I totally agree with Galileo.

Faith does not require a suspension of sense, reason and intellect. Also, I'm not aware that there is any dictate anywhere in the Bible that says we mast take things on faith alone.

The rules of Christianity were summed up by Jesus as follows:

Jesus declared, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets depend upon these two commandments."

Since Jesus was God, these two laws are from God.

Christians don't have secret knowledge. Everything is laid out from the get-go for the newest of initiates. It doesn't have any secrets. If some group does, it's probably not Christian.

It is simply that God cares for you and loves you but like any caring parent, has standards of conduct. We often do things that fall outside of those standards (it's only human) and God is put in a dilemma of responding to your infractions, or just letting you off.

Obviously, we would continue to do the wrong thing if God did nothing so He has told us that these things are wrong and will lead to death.

God then has found a way to explain the serious nature of our wrong actions and to not punish us by entering the world as Jesus to take the punishment that we deserved and to show that there is hope; of what we are able to do with the Holy Spirit of God inside us and empowering us.

In doing this, we can become adopted in to the family of God and, as Jesus said, we will do even more than He did while living among us.

We have to really truly want to change our ways (be repentant), something we have to reconsider every day, because we can easily forget. We also have to confess our wrong doings and wrong thoughts to God as a way of being mindful of them and allowing us to change our ways.

We have to have faith that what Jesus has done for us, through His death and resurrection, has saved us and can change us for the better.

That is the core of Christian beliefs. Not secret or hard to understand.

Christians are not much different from anyone else in this world. Some are bad, some are good, some are likeable, some are a pain, but we are all fallible. It is just that there is hope, love, forgiveness and a path to everything good that God wants for us.

originally posted by: Raggedyman

I know what noindens point was about mojo, its wrong, noindens wrong
Christians dont need the church to get to God, thats my point

Huh???

I didn't say anything??? Don't get upset with me for conversations I'm not even having with you.