China at risk of loosing its trade with U.S

originally posted by: nwtrucker
All I'm saying is one only has to look back, what(?) two years and mind warping changes in the political direction of the U.S.. Given another three+ years, do not discount that continuing as a valid and real possibility.

I'm not 100% discounting it, I just don't see there being any meaningful changes a la Trump's other key policy initiatives.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: nwtrucker
Applications to the SCOTUS are accepted/rejected as that court pleases. An application can be made by any to that body...and accepted as they choose. Yes, years if the machine is left to do so. Very fast if an agreeable Judicial branch concurs with the executive....

They typically want cases to progress through the lower courts first.

Sure, If the case is deemed critical to the Executive Branch, with concurrence in the Judicial, it can be fast tracked. Just a possible scenario.

originally posted by: nwtrucker
Sure, If the case is deemed critical to the Executive Branch, with concurrence in the Judicial, it can be fast tracked. Just a possible scenario.

I'll guess we'll find out.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: nwtrucker
All I'm saying is one only has to look back, what(?) two years and mind warping changes in the political direction of the U.S.. Given another three+ years, do not discount that continuing as a valid and real possibility.

I'm not 100% discounting it, I just don't see there being any meaningful changes a la Trump's other key policy initiatives.

Way slower than I'd have preferred, no question. I'm guessing here, but I see the usual fear of consequence by both parties and Congress with a 'rope-a-dope', block everything they can policy and wait out Trump as their least dangerous 'solution'.

That gives Trump time to come up with albeit slower solutions. His moving the tax issue up to the forefront puts tremendous pressure on the republican establishment. They had better give more than lip-service support to that one or face disaffecting the whole republican base after the ACA debacle.

The third party option by Trump becomes even more viable if the republicans continue on their suicidal path.

That puts China, more or less, on the back burner as Trump doesn't have the Congressional support to take on China fully anyways.....

originally posted by: nwtrucker
That puts China, more or less, on the back burner as Trump doesn't have the Congressional support to take on China fully anyways.....

That is kind of where I was going with some of my posts.

a reply to: nwtrucker

I won't discount that perspective if that's how you meant it. But come on, look at your original response to mine.

Rhetoric! A negotiation tool. This is obvious. Yes?

It seemed like you were clearly meaning to be rude & a bit aggressive. Hence my original response.

originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: nwtrucker

How do you know the OP meant it only as rhetoric? I prefer to take people at their word so it reduces the number of misunderstandings, while you seem to be re-interpreting their words to match your own views. Do you also give favorable reinterpretations when people say something that you disagree with? Are you giving my posts favorable reinterpretations right now, since I could simply be using rhetoric as well?

I was saying Trump's words were rhetoric, not the OP's. Did I miscommunicate that? The OP seems intent on instilling fear of a trade war that hasn't even remotely been approached. I'm pointing out the other possibilities.

Fair enough. But there's a big problem with bluffing, if that's what Trump's hypothetically doing. People forget that English is a 2nd, 3rd, and sometimes 4th language when dealing with foreign diplomats, foreign leaders, foreign press, etc. So even if Trump bold proclamations are merely rhetoric, it may not be received as mere rhetoric. If the leaders, media, and powerbrokers in other countries think he's being serious, then it could backfire.

And on the other hand, do we really want foreign leaders, foreign media, and foreign powerbrokers to think his words are always rhetoric? If he makes strong threats against anyone who trades w/North Korea but isn't really willing to follow through on them, then why would anyone take his other threats seriously?

Long Ago Japan became a Puppet State to the USA after they had Lost the WAR
from a Atomic Bomb

Japan Started Making products for the USA

in the 50 n 60s 70s

Made in Japan was Everywhere
Toys ,Tools , Radios , TVs Entertainment ,
Recreation Products .. etc..


in that time Korean War / Vietnam War
the Chinese sided with Communist in the INDOCHINA 1st 2nd 3rd Wars
Helping their Comrades. and fighting along side them in the Korean War and Vietnam
getting the Rest of Japanese in Korea and the French Out of Vietnam, and Be a Commie

It was a Chess Board /Playground for their new Toys and Weapons for the Elite
of USSR & USA Truman. Eisenhower, ======== Johnson/ Nixon wasn't a Good chess Player

Then Reagan Political Actor /Chess player and
Bush ( CIA Director/ Oil tycoon ) came into Office
in 1981.
and Helped China Basically become a Superpower with Free trade
and Had allowed American Companies to create factories In China and also Vietnam
and non communist Taiwan & Hong Kong ,


Things were good and great until the
Pyramid Trickled and the Economy fail too stay up ..

but ... The Major American Companies
that had Business/Plants overseas Said!
Why Should I Pay you $10 an Hour

when I can Pay them ( overseas ) $10 a Day


and thats where we Stand .

but dont forget what Trump Said in His
Campaign Speech and his Inauguration speech

seems like his Sticking by it :

although .......

America is so much in Debt with China

CAGW TV AD: Citizens Against Government Waste highlights U.S. debt owed to China.flv
www.youtube.com...


the Deficit is Insane

and What Year! is THIS!!! ???
www.youtube.com...

wr grace -deficit trials (2017) from 1984/1986


and from that Aired showing! TPTB shut it down

see video :
Networks ban W.R. Grace's Deficit Trials (1986)
www.youtube.com...

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: nwtrucker

I won't discount that perspective if that's how you meant it. But come on, look at your original response to mine.

Rhetoric! A negotiation tool. This is obvious. Yes?

It seemed like you were clearly meaning to be rude & a bit aggressive. Hence my original response.

originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: nwtrucker

How do you know the OP meant it only as rhetoric? I prefer to take people at their word so it reduces the number of misunderstandings, while you seem to be re-interpreting their words to match your own views. Do you also give favorable reinterpretations when people say something that you disagree with? Are you giving my posts favorable reinterpretations right now, since I could simply be using rhetoric as well?

I was saying Trump's words were rhetoric, not the OP's. Did I miscommunicate that? The OP seems intent on instilling fear of a trade war that hasn't even remotely been approached. I'm pointing out the other possibilities.

Fair enough. But there's a big problem with bluffing, if that's what Trump's hypothetically doing. People forget that English is a 2nd, 3rd, and sometimes 4th language when dealing with foreign diplomats, foreign leaders, foreign press, etc. So even if Trump bold proclamations are merely rhetoric, it may not be received as mere rhetoric. If the leaders, media, and powerbrokers in other countries think he's being serious, then it could backfire.

And on the other hand, do we really want foreign leaders, foreign media, and foreign powerbrokers to think his words are always rhetoric? If he makes strong threats against anyone who trades w/North Korea but isn't really willing to follow through on them, then why would anyone take his other threats seriously?

I think you 'might' be over thinking it.

With China, Trump has met and brilliantly paid respect to both the Chinese Premier and the Chinese nation. Trump even had one of his grandchildren sing a Chinese song in Mandarin to Xi. He gave more respect to China than any recent President right back to Nixon.

NK? His rhetoric has been completely different. He also has the cruise missile attack on the airbase in Syria as a precedent for military action.

I'm pretty sure Chinese diplomats are far smarter than I am. They've been masters of it for centuries, if not millennia.

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed well here is another for you if it was up to me i would find compound where lil kim is currently at and drop a few tomahawks on location while at same time targeting him launch facilities. and his nuke production and stockpiles too. then we sit down with surviving leadership and discus how they would like to move forward. this plan would work with very few casualties

a reply to: Wolfenz


Good points. Yet in the day Japan was at it's heights, the same lamenting occurred then. "Japan owns all our T-bills. Japan owns the U.S. and controls us.

Almost verbatim to China today. Look what happened to the Japanese economy when their 'investments' in the U.S. real estate market collapsed....


Just a side thought, does anyone know what happened to all those T-bills Japan owned back then?? Do the still own them? Sell them off?


The rest of that story was never told, that I can recall......

a reply to: nwtrucker

Just a side thought, does anyone know what happened to all those T-bills Japan owned back then?? Do the still own them? Sell them off?

The rest of that story was never told, that I can recall......

According to this article from last December, Japan is now the largest foreign holder of US debt.

China is no longer the biggest foreign holder of U.S. debt

I haven't seen anything more recent, though, so China could've retaken that position. Either way, it doesn't seem like Japan sold them back then.

Ain't gonna happen. The Shadow Government is not about to allow trade with China to by stymied. Way too much money at risk for that scenario to play out.

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: Wolfenz


Good points. Yet in the day Japan was at it's heights, the same lamenting occurred then. "Japan owns all our T-bills. Japan owns the U.S. and controls us.

Almost verbatim to China today. Look what happened to the Japanese economy when their 'investments' in the U.S. real estate market collapsed....

Just a side thought, does anyone know what happened to all those T-bills Japan owned back then?? Do the still own them? Sell them off?


The rest of that story was never told, that I can recall......

just a little Article of what going on with the T-bills

Foreign share of Japan’s T-bill market surges on currency swaps
Shift reflects heavy use of cross-currency basis swaps by Japanese investors
www.ft.com...

Well Japan is somewhat controlled by The U.S.
not Much in Complete Independence Free as of Yet
and may never be on their Own . as long as USA is a Nation
America Wont Ever Forget this Date 12/7/41
and Japan wont even forget this date Aug 6, 1945
and America will forever remind them who drew First Blood.
although Japan seems more Freer then the U.S.
and a Constitution more Relaxed ..


Surprisingly Europe Allowed Germany to become One nation Again within 50 years
from the Split .


Well if the trade Stops China/USA

back too INDOCHINA Wars Part 4

and North Korea with be joining in
with them and just maybe Russia too.


if congress doesn't Support Trump on this
Trade Stoppage Decision,

Then Congress Knows what the Outcome will be,
let alone Our Military , it would be a Domino Effect ,

Russia wont Stay neutral for LONG..

WOW

Tensions with Russia , North Korea and now China ?

WTF People

DID RED DAWN /Homefront ( Game ) just got Real ?


HA HA lol

Homefront (video game)
en.wikipedia.org...(video_game)

Homefront is set in a dystopic United States, in the year 2027. The game's backstory dates back to the 2010s, where there are high tensions between North Korea and the global powers due to the country's military aggression, including its successful nuclear weapons test and the sinking of a South Korean ship

Subsequently, in 2017, the U.S. military recalls much of its overseas presence, particularly in the Pacific.

A year later, Japan, significantly weakened due to the diminishing of the U.S.-Japan Security Treaty, is easily conquered by the GKR and is annexed shortly thereafter, becoming the first GKR puppet state

ahhhh......????

Game Homefront made in 2011

Subsequently, in 2017, the U.S. military recalls much of its overseas presence, particularly in the Pacific.

www.youtube.com...


U.S. active-duty military presence overseas is at its smallest in decades
By Kristen Bialik
www.pewresearch.org...

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: nwtrucker

Just a side thought, does anyone know what happened to all those T-bills Japan owned back then?? Do the still own them? Sell them off?

The rest of that story was never told, that I can recall......

According to this article from last December, Japan is now the largest foreign holder of US debt.

China is no longer the biggest foreign holder of U.S. debt

I haven't seen anything more recent, though, so China could've retaken that position. Either way, it doesn't seem like Japan sold them back then.

Now that's interesting.

USA "Dictating" what other Can do!
not even at war! yet...

The real threat to the world is when Trump decides to build a wall to blockade China trade routes to other countries.

Remember the time when the West wants to open China trade route? Opium wars?

China now has open trade. Now that they can't seem to compete with China they are doing the direct opposite calling shots on China to close trade.

The West already asked for it. There is no going back without a war in the America.

a reply to: makemap

And don't forget what happened after the Opium Wars. Multiple western countries forced what are called "The Unequal Treaties" onto China. These were incredibly exploitative economic policies that carved China up into separate spheres of influence for each Western power (similar to what they would do in African under the "Scramble for Africa").

The subsequent pro-Western govts in China upheld and implemented these treaties for decades, with their oppressive nature literally being one of the major causes for communism's popularity among the defiant poor. The Chinese Civil War ended up pitting the pro-Western, pro-"Unequal Treaty", pro-capitalist govt against the communists, with the communists defeating the govt and forcing them into exile in Taiwan.

The resentment was stronger than we can imagine, with literally 10s of millions of Chinese citizens being purged afterwards. The communists were literally trying to execute every single upper class citizen who could've possibly profited from the oppression and corruption caused by the "Unequal Treaties". It didn't matter if they were generals, artists, scholars, merchants, powerbrokers, or bureaucrats; they all were targeted. Many times, each small community would have open trials and executions to show that "justice" had been served against those who had oppressed them.

Though I'm a proud socialist, the sheer brutality in these kinds of purges is one of the reasons I could never get behind communism in practice. I can understand the concept and its rationalization, which is basically "we must punish the scum who've looted our lands, imprisoned our families, and profited from our oppression!". I've even seen non-communists here in the US echo the exact same logic when talking about arresting, prosecuting, and executing all corrupt politicians and Wall St bankers. But my solution is to hold trials for those who are suspected of doing the crimes, to confiscate and redistribute their hoarded resources from those actions, and then give jail terms to those who are found guilty. The communists simply executed them all, executed their families, and then seized and redistributed their hoarded resources.

I know this is long but the point I'm making is that there's no way that the communists in charge of China have forgotten any of this. I'd even guess that they find it hilarious that Westerners are complaining about China's exploitative trade policies, when it was the West who forced crippling economic policies onto China that literally ignited their communist revolution in the first place. Then again, they don't teach most of this in our public schools so I doubt many of the people who complain about China's trade policies even know about any of this stuff as context.

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: MrZeal

If this does take place, what effect will it have on the global economy?

War, pestilence and death, there is no need to sugar coat it....

The 4 Horsemen are loose , huh ?
Armageddon ?
In my long life , I have encountered this same sort of thing seems like millions of times. And the world is still here (or at least I think it is)

This is all mere political positioning. China owes it's economy to us. And we owe billions to China for buying our junk bonds. At low interest of course.
Peace

It's possible you may have missed the part about me answering a hypothetical question, with a hypothetical answer...

What a joke. The U.S. can't afford to stop trade with China for many reasons, and won't for still other reasons. It is laughable to even suggest it could happen. Wake up and smell the capitalism.

a reply to: MrZeal

This tells me the US is threathening any country that disagrees with its orders, with economic war.