BBC: your tax dollars at work

originally posted by: SprocketUK
I'd suggest its a big con job to deny people proper representation.

Or to convince people to seek improper representation while thinking it's proper.

originally posted by: nonspecific
a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Well I stand corected if they have reclassifeied it as a tax well done you.

It is still non obligatory though is it not? I have the right to choose to pay or to not pay do I not?

We have a road tax over here as well to fund the building and mainenace of roads and you pay the tax on every vehicle that you want to use the roads for. I do not pay that either as I do not drive but fell free to scream communism about that to if it floats your boat.

Nah you're indeed correct the reclassification attempt didn't pass thanks to NUJ, NCTJ backlashes. The liscence fee is an opt in system that funds not only the BBC but parts of Channel 4 and I think ITV may still get a slice of the funds (though there was a huge debate whether they deserved it 10 years or so ago when Tonight with Trevor McDonald went to #. It's still independent of state or corporate ownership, influence or control so it can provide themost unbiased, objective reporting possible.

P.s there's no road tax, it's vehicle excise duty just to be really pedantic and annoying, sorry - but yeah having roads doesn't make us socialist/communist/nanny state or whatever warped picture the OP is desperately trying to paint.

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
Well nonspecific just said he didn't drive so he didn't have to pay road taxes, are you both talking about the UK? I don't really care one way or another if road taxes are mandatory whether one drives or not because you're right it does help everyone and make the economy better if roads are well maintained. However ideally I would argue that roads should be maintained from road taxes and taxes and car registration and driving license fees, so if a person didn't drive they wouldn't need to pay taxes towards something they don't use.

As nonspecific said, the 'road tax' is an informal name for vehicle duty combined with other tax revenues. Highways maintenance is the responsibility of local councils, I pay council tax, ergo my taxes contribute towards the upkeep of roads that I do not use in any personal capacity.

There's no contradiction in that.

What bothers me is extreme over-regulation and taxes with no solid argument for their existence beyond "but we don't get adverts on the BBC bro".

If people are happy to pay a tax for whatever reason, and it doesn't affect you in any way, then that's their business and I suggest you find better things to get bothered about.

originally posted by: bastion
Nah you're indeed correct the reclassification attempt didn't pass thanks to NUJ, NCTJ backlashes. The liscence fee is an opt in system

I suspect if that were true the Wikipedia page would have been updated by now, but if it is true then please provide some sources because as we've seen so far in this thread people can say anything and that doesn't make it true.

P.s there's no road tax, it's vehicle excise duty just to be really pedantic and annoying, sorry - but yeah having roads doesn't make us socialist/communist/nanny state or whatever warped picture the OP is desperately trying to paint.

Let me quote what I said on the last page since you seem to be making up my arguments for me:

I don't really care one way or another if road taxes are mandatory whether one drives or not because you're right it does help everyone and make the economy better if roads are well maintained. However ideally I would argue that roads should be maintained from road taxes and taxes from car registrations and driving license fees, so if a person didn't drive they wouldn't need to pay taxes towards something they don't use. What bothers me is extreme over-regulation and taxes with no solid argument for their existence beyond "but we don't get adverts on the BBC bro".

a reply to: audubon

If people are happy to pay a tax for whatever reason, and it doesn't affect you in any way, then that's their business and I suggest you find better things to get bothered about.

That's odd, I just did a search on YouTube for "uk tv license" and the first page is nearly entirely made up of people complaining about it or explaining how to avoid it, or videos of people yelling at the licensing goons who come to their door, but please do continue telling me how this makes people happy... sheesh am I even on ATS anymore, what is this. Don't let patriotism blind you, I am more than willing to point out and criticize bad policies put in place my government, you cannot act like it's all fine and dandy when they're literally using search warrants to check a premises for a TV.

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
That's odd, I just did a search on YouTube for "uk tv license" and the first page is nearly entirely made up of people complaining about it or explaining how to avoid it, or videos of people yelling at the licensing goons who come to their door, but please do continue telling me how this makes people happy... sheesh am I even on ATS anymore, what is that. Don't let patritism blind you, I am more than willing to point out and criticize bad policies put in place my government instead of acting like it's all find and dandy when they're literally using search warrants to check a premises for a TV.

If you think youtube (a) comprises a reasonable cross-section of British society and (b) comprises a representative sample of people with firm views about the licence fee (pro or anti), that's your lookout. Personally, my view is that you are more likely to find obsessive anti-BBC cranks on youtube than in any other way.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

So a couple of dozen out of 65 and a half million people are moaning about it? Let's be super nice and say 650,000 people. Oh no! 1% of people don't like paying for something. Boo fricken hoo!

As it happens I got a letter the other day as I forgot to renew my right to not have a tv licence, I had a letter saying that someone from their office was coming round to see if I had a tv in my house.

I hope they bring a search warrant and a policeman with them because regardless of the fact I am not in violation of any laws even with a tv I use as a computer monitor in my house I am not letting them nose around my property just because they think they can legaly do so.

a reply to: audubon

"obsessive anti-BBC cranks"... lmao it's just too much.

OPs videos have all been taken from the youth-orientated BBC output, and as such they are short videos designed for and aimed at children. So of course they are rather simplistic.



Also, at a tangent, ti's funny how many of the people who proudly refuse to pay for the BBC, still watch the BBC. The whinging from this camp when the BBC started to try and introduce systems that would make the Iplayer require registration as a valid licence fee payer was immense.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

it's disgusting...across the board. From pidgin english news...to cultural appropriation thing.

Lately that crap makes me mad.

We should go all out on cultural appropriation. Here's an idea:

Maybe we should start cataloging all the things white people invented and achieved across the human civilization...and claim it as ours...and attack people all over the world for using any of "our stuff".

For instance..only white people from now on should be able to use planes..because...Wright brothers where white.

Electricty should be only supplied to white folks...because...Tesla was white.

No non white person alive should be able to buy an IPhone...because...you know it...

How about cars ? you guessed it.

Y'all folks also shouldnt be looking at the moon...because white folks claimed it already.

Everybody is enjoying the fruits of white ingenuity and achievements. Oddly...I've never heard white people complaining about any of it. Instead...we share it all.

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Utter madness. Cant help but feel...it's not going to end well in the end.

a reply to: nonspecific

Don't worry. They have no legal right to enter your home as a, they're not police and b, they're not balliffs from the high court.

If they do, just call the cops as it's unlawful entry and trespassing.

(BTW, I pay my tv licence. Mrs watches crap so we have to pay for it lol)

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
a reply to: audubon

"obsessive anti-BBC cranks"... lmao it's just too much.

Yes, "obsessive anti-BBC cranks." They are ten a penny on the internet.

For example, non-UK citizens who are not affected by the TV licence in any way, don't understand how the BBC works, think the UK is a socialist state, and that the UK currency is the dollar, yet still think that their opinions on the subject are both important and insightful.

Mentioning no names, like.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

I have never known anyone that has been issued a search warrant for vilation of tv licening laws but that is not to say it has not happened.

Most people who recieve fines have not paid the licence fee yet have a sky tv subscription service or the TV licence bloke simply looked through the window to see a bloody great flat screen tv with east enders on live and caught them that way.

originally posted by: nonspecific
I hope they bring a search warrant and a policeman with them because regardless of the fact I am not in violation of any laws even with a tv I use as a computer monitor in my house I am not letting them nose around my property just because they think they can legaly do so.

I'm glad to see you desire some liberty, I don't really think we see things so differently.

a reply to: TerryDon79

Oh I am not worried, I am looking forward to them trying to tell me why they can forcibly enter my property without the kind of legal paperwork that even the police need if they want to search without my consent.

I might video it all for the grins.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

I'm an NCTJ, NUJ, journo who writes for the ex-head of BBC North. Wikipedia isn't a valid source.

Here's someup to date info
www.nuj.org.uk...
www.bbc.co.uk...
campaign.goingtowork.org.uk...

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Whatever you may think of Eastenders, W1A or even Top Gear, set all that aside and act now to defend ‘our cultural NHS’. As members of BECTU – the media and entertainment union – we are asking you to join us and our fellow unions Equity, Musicians Union, NUJ, Unite and The Writers Guild in saving the BBC.

Can you imagine a world without the BBC?

The BBC makes a rich range of programmes with something for everyone, from award winning dramas & documentaries to sit–coms & soaps. The BBC is watched and listened to by 96% of the UK population. Two thirds of all UK adults listen to BBC Radio and half of all UK adults use BBC Online each week.

It’s good value as the BBC licence fee costs under 40p per day (£145.50 a year) for 9 TV channels, 10 national radio stations, a network of local radio stations and an internationally acclaimed website as well as the internationally loved World Service.

The top packages from Sky, Virgin Media and TalkTalk cost more than £1,000 a year. The BBC produces thousands of hours of original programming while Sky, on an income nearly double that of the BBC, makes only a tiny amount.

Only on the BBC can children watch their favourite programmes uninterrupted by advertising. The BBC is free from shareholder pressure and advertiser influence with a mandate to make programmes for all interest groups.

The licence fee is the single biggest investment in UK arts and creative industries with over half spent in Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and the English Regions. Every £1 of licence fee spent by the BBC, generates £2 of economic activity.

BBC News is the largest broadcast news gathering operation in the world. The BBC is the public face of Britain abroad and has a weekly global audience of 308m.

The BBC is definitely not intended to be an arm of government – if this deal goes ahead starting in 2018, the BBC will be crippled by the costs of government policies and policed in the interests of more Tory-friendly broadcasters.

Senior BBC managers and the Government would like everyone to believe that this is a done deal and nothing can be reversed. This is not true. The most damaging part of this settlement is the need to meet the cost of free TV licences for the over-75s, which will cost the BBC over £650m. This decision, if unchallenged, will leave the BBC unrecognisable in less than 10 years time. Join the campaign now!

The whole world wishes they had the BBC – you have it, don’t let them kill it off!

This campaign was set up by BECTU - the media and entertainment union - with the support of Equity and other affected unions.
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a reply to: nonspecific

It's quite funny watching them try and cite laws that don't apply to them. Just be careful if they put their foot in the door. You can be done for assault if they're injured in any way.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

I think the main difference is that you seem to be basing your views on some stuff you saw on the internet and the kind of propaghanda that was about in the cold war but we can work on that

As I said feel free to ask any questions you like about the UK and the way it really is here, more than enough honest UK members here to tell you the truth as to the mess of a place it is here and why we don't tend to care all that much about what they think we should be doing or not doing.

a reply to: audubon

Well considering I've been on ATS many years and this is the first thread I've made directly related to the UK I'd say you're assumptions are wrong. Also I breifly mentioned the TV license thing in the opening post, I did not expect it to become the focus of the topic, but apparently some people are obsessed with defending the degradation of their personal liberty for a media corporation. And I obviously know the UK doesn't use the dollar I wasn't born yesterday, it's just a saying and "tax pounds" doesn't sound quite right, but honestly it just slipped my mind.