First Grader Sent to Office, Investigated, for “Pronoun Mishap”

a reply to: TobyFlenderson

It is from dealing with many cases over the years. Some of these children become severely depressed and suffer from anxiety due to their gender dysphoria issues. You want to put a 6-year-old on antidepressants? Not a good idea. So what do we do with a 5 or 6-year-old who is severely depressed, anxious, withdrawn, doing poorly at school, etc.? Spank them? Just have a little chat and say "snap out of it!" ? Pretend like the child isn't suffering and ignore them? These symptoms don't go away after a week or two. They last for years. To alleviate these sometimes severe dysphoria symptoms, therapists will recommend allowing the child to change their dress, their hair, and maybe their name. Case after case, the child usually starts to bloom again and loses all the horrible symptoms of the dysphoria. They've seen it time after time. Nothing else has relieved the symptoms.

a reply to: kaylaluv

Obviously there are other options than the ones you listed. It's not of interest enough to me to personally research the issue as much as you have. I wonder how recent a development this is. What happened to these kids in the 50's for instance? I deal with people in very harsh financial situations quite frequently. Their children live in poverty, often in single parent homes, and quite often in severe dysfunction. Yet I see them playing and laughing, etc.. I would suggest, without research, that if a 5-6 year old is experience depression and/or severe anxiety there are causes beyond a fantasy in the child's mind.

Lastly, assuming everything you said and believe about this issue is accurate, why should the rest of the class have to adjust their behavior with risk of punishment in order to satisfy this one kid's fantasy?

originally posted by: TobyFlenderson
a reply to: Deaf Alien

MRI's and CAT scans show a different gender lurking in there?

You compare the brains to that of male and female.

a reply to: TobyFlenderson

Living in poverty is not the same thing at all. If you grow up poor and everyone around you is poor, you don't know what you are missing. Kids with gender dysphoria are very aware they are different.

I think there were kids in the 50's with gender dysphoria who had very miserable childhoods, and you think that's okay? Some of them most likely ended up killing themselves as they got older, but it was never discussed why. It was a subject that was never talked about, but that didn't mean it didn't happen. You could talk to trans people in their 60's and 70's who suffered through miserable childhoods needlessly.

You're just never going to get it. Gender dysphoria is not a fantasy. It is real.

a reply to: Deaf Alien

lol no. that's pseudoscience, there's no such thing as a male and female brain.

a reply to: kaylaluv

I don't think many people are really arguing whether it's real so much as they're arguing the nature of what exactly it means.

originally posted by: rockdisjoint2
a reply to: Deaf Alien

lol no. that's pseudoscience, there's no such thing as a male and female brain.

I know you're a troll but I'll bite...
If you have a body of a lizard (ichthyosis) you will think you're a lizard and not a human being, right? After all you still have a human brain.

a reply to: Deaf Alien

To steal a line from you on the previous page, that's a pretty silly argument considering that's not lizard skin on people with ichthyosis. In the mild cases, it's little more than a cosmetic change. Biologically they're the same as anyone else, except they carry the gene for that.

Genes... touchy subject.

a reply to: face23785

His point was the opposite. If you were born with a lizard skin with an human brain would you think you were a lizard? His point failed.

a reply to: Deaf Alien

Seeing as how no one is born with biologically lizard skin. That's just what it looks like to your eyes. I never thought people with that disease looked like lizards. So that's all hypothetical. Meanwhile, in reality we have people born biologically male or female with very few biological anomalies and this discussion isn't even about them.

a reply to: face23785

The "discussion" has been shown to be over exaggerated. Yeah some 1st grade girl spend 1 hour in a principal office being traumatized Yup right.
Appearance is not who you are.

a reply to: Deaf Alien

Seriously? You can tell a person's gender by an MRI or CAT scan?

So I did some quick, really quick, research. I could only find one study and it relies upon 32 subjects. Here's the link to the Scientific American article.

And here's a cherry picked quote from the article:

Of course, behavior and experience shape brain anatomy, so it is impossible to say if these subtle differences are inborn.

So we are back to the chicken and the egg.

My basic take away is that "transgender" brains may be different than normal brains. However, a male who identifies as a female does not have a female brain. He/she has a brain that is different from people who aren't transgendered. Do schizophrenia sufferers have different brains than "normal". If so, is this proof that there delusions are real? Should we all support them in their fantasies?

A person with a mental disorder displaying an abnormal brain, that's the conclusion I reach. Obviously I could be wrong, I'm not omnipotent. I just wonder what type of money is being made off of "transgenders" in the medical community.

a reply to: TobyFlenderson

Seriously? You can tell a person's gender by an MRI or CAT scan?

Yep. Fascinating isn't it? Though the research is very young and it doesn't show all of it.
One thing is for sure... some children cannot help it, be it genetic, environment, water, or whatever. There is no agenda here.

a reply to: kaylaluv

I think you are right when you say that I'm never going to get it. You are obvious passionate in your beliefs and I congratulate you for that. I wish every child was happy and healthy and whole. We'd have a much better world if that were the case. And I confess that there is the chance that I may be wrong. I don't think so, but that's a possibility. I just think that allowing this in children so young could have drastic consequences and that by simply accepting it to assuage a 7 year old emotional problems maybe throwing out the baby with the bath water.

Can you at least admit that the dysphoria could be symptom of underlying physical or emotional problems that could be otherwise corrected if it were better understood?

a reply to: Deaf Alien

I don't have an agenda either, other than my own visceral gut feeling that such important decisions shouldn't be left the mind of a child who hasn't yet, or has just, reached the age of reason. I further dislike the fact that it has to be shoved down the throats of all the other children who probably have no idea what the term gender even means.

I have to point out that my middle daughter, who is 22 years old, has a best friend who is a man transitioning to a woman. (I don't mean to be rude if that's the wrong way to say that). She's a good kid and welcome in my house anytime. I wish her and all such similarly situated people the best of luck. (This is my open-minded cred disclaimer I suppose.)

a reply to: TobyFlenderson

The only problem is that people keep claiming that they are shoving down throats.
Can we continue this discussion later tomorrow? It's a good discussion. I'm watching Survival Lilly right now.
Good night.

a reply to: Deaf Alien

Of course, good night and thanks for the enlightening discussion.

originally posted by: TobyFlenderson
a reply to: Deaf Alien

I don't have an agenda either, other than my own visceral gut feeling that such important decisions shouldn't be left the mind of a child who hasn't yet, or has just, reached the age of reason. I further dislike the fact that it has to be shoved down the throats of all the other children who probably have no idea what the term gender even means.

I have to point out that my middle daughter, who is 22 years old, has a best friend who is a man transitioning to a woman. (I don't mean to be rude if that's the wrong way to say that). She's a good kid and welcome in my house anytime. I wish her and all such similarly situated people the best of luck. (This is my open-minded cred disclaimer I suppose.)

A lot of people who feel the way you do know and support trans people. But instead we are all labeled haters and bigots because that's just the easy way out.

a reply to: face23785

Agreed. It's the age old story, if you don't agree with me you're a heretic and should be burned at the stake. Both sides of the political spectrum are guilty of this at times.

When it comes to issues that are not proven, that are based upon your world view more than upon facts and circumstances, we all have to relax and realize that reasonable people can disagree.

I heard a good quote today, we should always be checking our own BS, Belief System.

As humans, we are quite frequently wrong.

originally posted by: TobyFlenderson
a reply to: kaylaluv


Can you at least admit that the dysphoria could be symptom of underlying physical or emotional problems that could be otherwise corrected if it were better understood?

Of course there may be something else going on. That's why therapy is so SO important. An experienced therapist can usually pinpoint any other issue fairly quickly. A therapist with lots of gender dysphoria experience who has seen it many times, knows what to look for, and is aware of other potential issues. No way should parents be allowing their children to do any transitioning without a professional therapist.