New Graham Hancock Archaeological Evidence of Advanced Civilizations

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
a reply to: FHomerK

Lots of us have survival skills. From veterans to hunters and fishermen which are all over my area. The people that would survive any "apocalyptic event", would first have to be lucky enough to be in an area that is not the epicenter of such an event. Second, those people who think they can survive by themselves, or with just their family, will quickly learn that is not what happens in a shtf scenario.

Actually, you can survive just fine in big cities as well. People grow their own food in cities and can pool resources more easily (and there's lots more resources.)

I agree with your main point - we've all got some sort of survival skills (even if it's only lighting a fire with a match) and many of us have books at home that would help us repair and replace and make do.

originally posted by: Anathros

originally posted by: Reverbs
a reply to: FHomerK

its funny the responses in this thread almost all of which miss the mark on what was said. Some are focusing on Graham Hancock. Some on Ancient civilizations. Some on survival.

No Our CULTURE has no way of surviving. Only stories would remain and in one generation your kids are hearing about buildings and ekectricity without ever turning on a light. "Back in my day we were magic." basically.. That won't translate well to ywo or three generations.

The gods will be long dead by then.. Some notion of a Golden Age will remain. Some will tell stories of gods.

Anyway, can you imagine being reincarnated and finding some piece of a car in the jungle and having dejavu.. Like "I know what this is its an engine block."
but having no clue how you know this now you are a shaman or something haha..

I'm saying a country boy will survive anything short of a nuclear holocaust. There's very few of us that panic when the lights go out. We may not all be the professor from Gilligan's Island but most of us will get by.

Down here, we raise our own chickens for eggs, we can hunt, and we keep a garden every year. Lights go out, I won't be watching football but living off the land pretty much is our culture.

you missed the point.


YOU are not culture..

you will live but trying to explain what the imternet was will be imposible.. How many books do you have?

basically this idea of a worldwide culture will be a myth.. you made it up and good for you, you can survive...

thats not the point.

in two generations your great grandkids wont know what roads are for. None of you will write on rocks.. All your paper will melt away. You remember ATS but your great great grandkids will think you are talking about magic.

I dont think you understand this topic.

its not if YOU survive.. Its CULTURE.. our current culture has billions of nodes.. Going from paying money to get on an airplane to surviving in the woods without other people.... It wont take long till you are drawing a vw bus in the dirt and no one has any clue what it means.

youll survive.. but our grand civilization is dead. Not long until you lose all machines.... another few hundred years and we are wearing animal skins..

You cant remember everything.

hence... Maybe we forgot the past.

originally posted by: Byrd

originally posted by: Harte
On the one hand, he's right that if there was an apocalypse, we wouldn't survive as our current culture.
You'd have to be an idiot not to see that.

On the other hand, he only tells lies, mischaracterizations, and half truths when he tries to convince the chronically astonished that he has any evidence at all of ancient advanced but unknown civilizations.

On balance, then, he's basically a con man, though not as bad as several others I could name.

Harte

And he's bad at modeling.

His scenario makes some romantically bad assumptions (the basis of every bad apocalyptic film and book around) = that every single group on Earth is either city-dwelling Americans or they're bush-dwelling primitives. He doesn't account for non-English speaking cultures (nor cultures like New Zealand.)

In his scenario, Earth is hit with the Great Stupidity Field where everyone walks outside and says "man, what just happened?" and then throws away all their tools and the bits and pieces of culture and technology (like, say, flush toilets) and it happens overnight.

So let's say the EMP took out the power grid everywhere. People would be upset, they'd be trying to figure out what was going on, they'd be trying to figure out how to save what food they have and how to get around and find out if friends and/or family are okay. We'd still have our tools and some of us would still report to work. Emergency services would regroup (and probably use bits and pieces from the "Zombie Apocalypse" scenario - municipalities and other agencies run disaster drills once every few years. "Zombie Apocalypse" was a recent one that they've been running.)

Globally it would take decades to get everything patched up, BUT, we would still have manuals, still have materials, still be able to fabricate things we need. We would still have libraries and hundreds of thousands of small home workshops (my husband has a one-man woodwork shop of his own.) In other countries where transportation and culture are different (Germany, for instance), the scenario would play out differently than in the US... as it would in countries that are mainly agricultural based.

Development would be slowed... if that happened, your flying car prototype will be delayed by decades. But we won't go back to knocking rocks together. There'll be new "how to" books, infrastructure changes (which could be good... a forced instant upgrade of the whole system) and many cultural changes.

But it's not going to knock us back to living in trees and fainting when we see sabertoothed cats.

just curious Byrd ,


seeing from you have said :

how many Mass Extinctions that MODERN MAN Went Through and Survived ?

Remember MODERN MAN as what we are Today According to Science : had been walking the earth
for around 250,000 + Years and to some from a recent Discovery of Mass of Spear heads produced like it
was from a factory somewhere in Israel and claimed to be 400,000 years Old and
I think Modern Man Remains were found Also ? sorry just going Memory here ..

so... in between 250,000 to 400,000 Modern MAN Homo Sapiens been on this Planet

and you Lead me to believe Man did not Create an Advancement until the Last 10,000 years ?

For Creativity of Architecture , Medicine , Tool advancement , Etc.

Until 10,000 years ago! ? when Man had the first Written Communicative language ? close to 8,000+ years ago?

yet we have Beautiful Advance artwork in the Caves of France that is claimed to be 40,000 year Old

and a Figurine of a Half Lion Half Man that is also around 40,000 years old .. made from Ivory of a Mammoth ?


So ... what was the Modern Common Man Doing..

for those First 200,000 years ??? In Caves and Animals Skins , Around a Fire , just grunting
with a Just barley Sentient Sense of MIND of the 3 Major Races :
just running with the Hominids and Apes ?

Negro, Caucasian and Mongoloid ?

so back again to the Question

what was those percentages of every living being of Fauna and Flora
being Wiped out ?

I would assume Man was Partially wiped out

Quaternary extinction event
en.wikipedia.org...


yest I know about indigenous ( Natives ) People
living the extreme simple life with only Simple Advancement
from Africa , Asia, Australia
upper Europe and Americas North n South

Im Partial of the The American Group

what i think is

Man just may of advanced enough , just to be knocked down
and start the processes over from every major Die off Event
or Ice Age

just a few searches :

Quaternary glaciation
en.wikipedia.org...

How Human Beings Almost Vanished From Earth In 70,000 B.C.

October 22, 201212:33 PM ET
www.npr.org...

Extinction Events That Almost Wiped Out Humans
io9.gizmodo.com...

Toba catastrophe theory
en.wikipedia.org...

Baffling 400,000-Year-Old Clue to Human Origins
www.nytimes.com...

going too bed ..

Personally and this is an opinion, if we want to survive we can but if we want to evolve then we might want to learn to stop killing stuff for fun, there's nothing that defines a waste than killing for no reason. If you live away from mankind then I can understand you need to live but when you have a freezer full of food and you nip out for a 'bonding' experience and kill an animal for no good reason then for me that shows how little we have evolved, at least the cave men killed to eat and survive.

This is more about the big cat killers etc you have to understand I was never brought up to go hunting therefore I see no point in it as a fun experience. Killing rabbits etc is one thing but endangered species for 'fun'...No....

I personally want to get to the next level forward, not fall back, it would be a shame to have got this far only to destroy it all, some might say that apart from the 'toys' we have we still show how randomly savage we are and how at the highest levels we still fail to work as one and I agree but evolution is in our hands, its a shame we waiver at the big steps.

a reply to: FHomerK

I'll watch it, as it looks interesting and i havent delved into Hancock too much, but i may do more of that now.

I have a book by William Bramley, The Gods of Eden, so if it's anything like his work, i'm sure i'll enjoy it.

a reply to: FHomerK

So, I've got a new video game addiction on the PS4 called Elite Dangerous.

That sentence right there got me reeled in. However I believe that western civilizations should not muddy the waters and history proves that this has happened before as the west have imposed their will upon the Aztecs. Mayans, etc.

IMHO we should use drones to observe these remote tribes for posterity and not interfere, after all look at what the Spanish did. Sentinel Island, Polynesian islands etc are going underwater but even if we intervene with the purest intentions, we are still imposing.

Graham Hancock is no summa cum laude and neither am I, I don't agree with some of his theories but I will say he nailed the fact that ancient south Americans created some monuments that defy belief e.g Machu Picchu or Teotihuacan.

As it stands today, almost nothing of importance for survival skills or our culture is even documented in a manner that would not disintegrate over time (such as books) or require our currently existing technology to access the information (electronic data on computers and computer networks). As an IT professional, I've often thought this was ridiculous.

As a former IT student myself, ancient mathematics is not as complex as scripting which makes their feats more impressive.If X=Y then COC 1,100,000-that is nothing compared what Pythagoras or the the ancients achieved in their time.

a reply to: FHomerK

I find it interesting that most replies to this post are about the survival of the individual. I don't discredit this though in the least. Without the individual we have no masses of survivors and everything will slowly come to a stop.
When I first read the posting, I thought of the scenes from the movie "Time machine" based upon the book by H.G. Wells. The scene where the traveler is shown the "books and historical records of the old ones'. He is told everyone knows they are there but they had long ago forgotten how to use them. So not only do we need some way to preserve our culture and knowledge, we need to provide a means of passing on how to access these records.

Hancock does not support scientific evidence.
He is a journalist. He is selling stories, that's all..
it is very misleading that some sites just claim he is an 'archeologist'.
He is not.

a reply to: EveryUsernameWasTaken
Bear Grylls is the most dangerous boob to listen to. is this picture the one he was drinking his own pee? but they are right most people in us have zero survival skills. i know peoplewith matchlite charcoal a large bottle of lighter fluid and a lighter who after 2 hours of trying to get his grill going gave up. took me less than a minute to get coals going.

a reply to: FHomerKWow, I clicked because I really enjoy Graham Hancock's work and what do I see? A post about Elite Dangerous! Right on Commander! Been playing it on the xbox for a long while and got the pc version a month ago. I love the game, loved it on my BBC B in '84 and the C64 shortly after. Have fun out there.
Sorry for going off topic, just couldn't help myself.

I like L.A.Marzulli and I still cannot believe people think humans moved some of these stones.Some of them would have required hundreds apon hundreds of miles to move them.
This guy was also very interesting to listen to.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Lots of people know how to plant, and harvest vegies like tomatoes, pears, apples, etc. But if you don't know how to hunt you won't survive long without any protein.

Chickens lay eggs and they don't take the many years you wait for the first pear and apple

a reply to: Anathros

My 9 year old daughter can field clean a deer. She's accurate with her bow out to 30 yards and a better riflle shot than some of the men at our deer camp. The best part is she actually enjoys it. Haven't started on the "survival" aspect but I will in time. I think it's just different here in the South. I know most people don't have these opportunities with their children. I've been blessed.

Blessed
Today when we have 10-year-old girls stabbing to death their good friend and constant child violence I can't imagine why a Father would think it good a 9-year-old girl should enjoy killing and gutting a gentle helpless creature.

If you were serious about survival chickens are enough, teach her about eggs.

a reply to: FHomerK

Great job, YouTube! You even found me on ATS!!

Those Recommended Video ads are getting out of hand!!

Nice thread. Graham's point on taking care of our basic needs, for ourselves, is one that I am jumping back into. And trying to inspire others, as I have been. I know and see too many people that work from home, or don't work at all, with not even a potato in a garden box, let alone any sort of survival skills. The Huns would have a field day.

If an event occurred now and shattered the constructs of society it would cause the first World Depression. It would take something drastic, like a solar flare, meteor/s, an ice-age... an economic collapse, war...
Even the most rural of us have some dependency on 'the grid', and many (most) of us are lost without it. We might survive days or months, but years or decades?
It's too easy to think that tomorrow will be the same as today.
I'm sure Africa, and the rest of the world, never expected Europeans, America never expected the Great Depression, the Middle East never expected never ending wars, and no one expects the Spanish Inquisition!

South Africa could go the way of Zimbabwe, even America could see it's ass. And as much as we think we know, we probably wouldn't know until it was too late.

So I'm back in the garden, doing some good things. Got a lot to do, but it's moving along nicely!
Been building up a library of cool stuff over the years, real books too, but mostly on the computer... xD I've planned, for too long, to back it all up on a drive or three and bury it in a protective box xD And I bloody well would, too. Don't want no darn sun rays fritzing my life's work of info collecting! xD

I think one of the problems we have, in modern living, is the work hours. For the average person it's just too much. There's no spare time. All your time is money. And it's never enough. There are so many pointless jobs in the world, successful ones too! xD I worked for one of them for 8 years, selling stuff that's essentially fake and gets thrown away, but it made money out of my hours, and we workers never got a tenth of it. Could have been at home doing something meaningful to my family's lives.

The system is screwed, we know that. Inflation & interest. I mean, come on! hahahaha I know it sound naive, and I'm being a little vague, but it's that simple. The problems are that simple. We're told that's the way it is. But the way it is is literally tearing the world apart, physically, psychologically, morally, spiritually, and taking it's inhabitants on a death ride. And the screwed up thing is we all allow and perpetuate it. If a vampire knocked on our door, we'd tell him to invite his friends.

originally posted by: Reverbs

originally posted by: Anathros

originally posted by: Reverbs
a reply to: FHomerK

its funny the responses in this thread almost all of which miss the mark on what was said. Some are focusing on Graham Hancock. Some on Ancient civilizations. Some on survival.

No Our CULTURE has no way of surviving. Only stories would remain and in one generation your kids are hearing about buildings and ekectricity without ever turning on a light. "Back in my day we were magic." basically.. That won't translate well to ywo or three generations.

The gods will be long dead by then.. Some notion of a Golden Age will remain. Some will tell stories of gods.

Anyway, can you imagine being reincarnated and finding some piece of a car in the jungle and having dejavu.. Like "I know what this is its an engine block."
but having no clue how you know this now you are a shaman or something haha..

I'm saying a country boy will survive anything short of a nuclear holocaust. There's very few of us that panic when the lights go out. We may not all be the professor from Gilligan's Island but most of us will get by.

Down here, we raise our own chickens for eggs, we can hunt, and we keep a garden every year. Lights go out, I won't be watching football but living off the land pretty much is our culture.

you missed the point.


YOU are not culture..

you will live but trying to explain what the imternet was will be imposible.. How many books do you have?

basically this idea of a worldwide culture will be a myth.. you made it up and good for you, you can survive...

thats not the point.

in two generations your great grandkids wont know what roads are for. None of you will write on rocks.. All your paper will melt away. You remember ATS but your great great grandkids will think you are talking about magic.

I dont think you understand this topic.

its not if YOU survive.. Its CULTURE.. our current culture has billions of nodes.. Going from paying money to get on an airplane to surviving in the woods without other people.... It wont take long till you are drawing a vw bus in the dirt and no one has any clue what it means.

youll survive.. but our grand civilization is dead. Not long until you lose all machines.... another few hundred years and we are wearing animal skins..

You cant remember everything.

hence... Maybe we forgot the past.

I get the point. You're assuming that you can't pass on stories to your children and they do the same. While we're all addicted to the internet, it will be replaced with face to face socializing. There will be chalkboards, dry erase boards, paper, pencils, and pens. Cultures do not equate to internet, phones, and electricity. The things that matter like family, friends, and working with your hands is the culture that's being forgotten and needs to be preserved.

originally posted by: Wolfenz
just curious Byrd ,


seeing from you have said :

how many Mass Extinctions that MODERN MAN Went Through and Survived ?

So far, we're surviving the first one.

"Mass Extinction events" aren't a "something clobbers the entire earth" sort of thing. They take place over thousands to millions of years. The extinction of the non-avian dinosaurs actually happened before the big meteor strike. Ice Age extinction took place over thousands of years.

and you Lead me to believe Man did not Create an Advancement until the Last 10,000 years ?

Yep.

You need trade and technology and that means large populations. Your average hunter-gatherer doesn't have the time or the resources to create a functional light bulb and battery. Oh, the materials might be around, but they would first have to research candles and then lanterns and then voltaic piles and then wires and then insulators and then electrical circuits and then clear glass, etc. That's hard to do when your day is spent making weapons and chasing antelope and there's only 40 of you and one of those is your crazy old uncle Harry... and six of you are still toddlers.

Until 10,000 years ago! ? when Man had the first Written Communicative language ? close to 8,000+ years ago?

yet we have Beautiful Advance artwork in the Caves of France that is claimed to be 40,000 year Old

and a Figurine of a Half Lion Half Man that is also around 40,000 years old .. made from Ivory of a Mammoth ?

That's symbolic art with common materials. And I'm not dismissing that but societies were too small and too mobile to develop much technology (for really good metal work you need forges which develops from ovens ... and you don't get that with camp fires.)

(and that gizmodo article is badly written and poorly researched.)

Technology is persistent. Once we develop something (like the plow), the collapse of civilizations and the destruction of a lot of people (Black Death) doesn't mean we forgot that technology or that we had to work our way back up.

originally posted by: Jimjolnir
I know and see too many people that work from home, or don't work at all, with not even a potato in a garden box, let alone any sort of survival skills. The Huns would have a field day.

There's a real emphasis placed on "living off the grid" that will actually work against the survivors.

If everyone's working at producing their own food and taking care of the land, then nobody has time to do things like invent and make good roads or invent electric cars, etc. Human civilization advanced only when the conditions of a "real civilization" were met:

* enough people so that we could specialize (not everyone had to hunt/produce food)
* coordinating government
* domestication of plants and animals
* form of rapid transportation so that contact with other groups could happen and ideas/food/resources could be exchanged.

Without those, you have a bunch of hard working people who are never going to get electrical power or flying cars.

Fingerprints of the gods is one of the most interesting books ever written, IMO.

a reply to: Harte

I admit to being someone who bought into a lot of what he wrote in Fingerprints of the Gods. But I will not apologize for that because it brought me here. So some times having the wrong information leads to enlightenment. There is no doubt his writing on earth crust displacement and flash frozen animals was wrong.
It pains me to see him labeled a conman, even though he profits from it and in many ways you are right. However, he at least is not like the Bosnian Pyramid guy or many others who talk about this topic.

His recent book Magicians of the Gods...dwells a lot on Gobleki Tepe and Gunung Padang. Have you read the new book?
It also talks about the huge cities found in caves and the scabland of the northwest United States. It certainly seems like his younger dryas comet claims are starting to gain some steam.

originally posted by: Byrd

originally posted by: Wolfenz
just curious Byrd ,


seeing from you have said :

how many Mass Extinctions that MODERN MAN Went Through and Survived ?

So far, we're surviving the first one.

"Mass Extinction events" aren't a "something clobbers the entire earth" sort of thing. They take place over thousands to millions of years. The extinction of the non-avian dinosaurs actually happened before the big meteor strike. Ice Age extinction took place over thousands of years.

and you Lead me to believe Man did not Create an Advancement until the Last 10,000 years ?

Yep.

You need trade and technology and that means large populations. Your average hunter-gatherer doesn't have the time or the resources to create a functional light bulb and battery. Oh, the materials might be around, but they would first have to research candles and then lanterns and then voltaic piles and then wires and then insulators and then electrical circuits and then clear glass, etc. That's hard to do when your day is spent making weapons and chasing antelope and there's only 40 of you and one of those is your crazy old uncle Harry... and six of you are still toddlers.

Until 10,000 years ago! ? when Man had the first Written Communicative language ? close to 8,000+ years ago?

yet we have Beautiful Advance artwork in the Caves of France that is claimed to be 40,000 year Old

and a Figurine of a Half Lion Half Man that is also around 40,000 years old .. made from Ivory of a Mammoth ?

That's symbolic art with common materials. And I'm not dismissing that but societies were too small and too mobile to develop much technology (for really good metal work you need forges which develops from ovens ... and you don't get that with camp fires.)

(and that gizmodo article is badly written and poorly researched.)

Technology is persistent. Once we develop something (like the plow), the collapse of civilizations and the destruction of a lot of people (Black Death) doesn't mean we forgot that technology or that we had to work our way back up.

your not getting my point ... of course that s a gimme from your quote

You need trade and technology and that means large populations. Your average hunter-gatherer doesn't have the time or the resources to create a functional light bulb and battery. Oh, the materials might be around, but they would first have to research candles and then lanterns and then voltaic piles and then wires and then insulators and then electrical circuits and then clear glass, etc. That's hard to do when your day is spent making weapons and chasing antelope and there's only 40 of you and one of those is your crazy old uncle Harry... and six of you are still toddlers.

I already know this Bryd but your Leaving out is that 240,000 Years out the 250,000 years

Man has accomplished that within 12,000 years from the present
give or take within of what you have mentioned..

ha , yeah , let alone from the Wright Brothers too Apollo 11 landing on the moon in 66 years Time!


so what was the big creative Game Change ,

I myself is along side Lloyd Pye , Man is Not Built to Adapt to Condition of the Environment Niches
and that where Our Human intellect had too come in ...

something inspired , something got our Curiosity.

of Eureka Fire!! and the Uses from Smelting , Fabricating ,
just about everything had some thing to with Fire ,

but for Lost technology.. as you said we dont have to work our way back up ?

yeah we did , no long ago , Puma Punku Bolivia/Peru and the Giza Pyramids in Egypt for starters
as NO One is for Sure how they were may or how it was Built its all Theory, that lost Technology
as Some think , those Structures are Way older then they actually Are , in the 5,000 too 20,000 stretch.

as you said Toddlers , well, if the Adults were wiped out , and they only knew the very basics of survival
and nothing with technology other then hunting gathering .. that would be a restart..

hell Byrd the Ancient Egyptians had more knowledge of Medicine/Remedies then Modern day
of Cures , example , they found a Cure too kill bacteria that is hard to kill , that infests in the Eye
not sure i think Pink eye and many others , which i can go all day with ,


SO basically we were just Men in Caves hunter gathers for those 240,000 years giver or take ,
and Im not talking about Hominids or Neanderthals HERE! ,, just Homo Sapients as In What we are today


what i should of said , how many times Man had been wiped out from Climate Changes and Diseases

that reminds me Half of the Migrations of Puritans of the new World ( America ) Died in the 1st winter
from the lack of Knowledge of Survival, they learned from the Natives ...Indigenous People of the Land


it hard to believe that MODERN MAN Just Wondered around Hunting and Gathering for 240,000 years

with out advancement or improvements.. IMO..

well .... just maybe the Game Change came too be when something like the Cargo Cult

Events happed 12 thousand years ago,

that made the Spark.


love this Clip : from Chariots of the Gods


who to say it didn't happen around the World