Are solar eclipses proof of God?

originally posted by: mekhanics
a reply to: ChesterJohn

GOD is proving you that the earth is NOT FLAT, so therefore your bs bible is batsh*t bull#.

The Bible doesn't say the earth is flat. It was known that the Earth was spherical from the time of Aristotle, nearly 400 years prior to Christianity. Eratosthenes calculated the actual diameter of the Earth nearly 300 years before Christ.

Prior to the acceptance of more modern Copernican and Newtonian understandings, the default scientific belief of the early Roman Catholic Church was essentially Aristotelean, that the Earth was spherical and not flat.

The Bible does talk specifically about the curvature of the Earth (Isaiah 40:22) and that it floats, supported by invisible forces in space (Job 26:7), which isn't too shoddy for some late bronze age shepherds.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

No. They are proof that we live in a special time during the history of the Earth, Moon, and Sun where eclipses can occur, but the moon is constantly moving away from the Earth so eventually it will be too far away and eclipses won't happen anymore. Furthermore, the orbits aren't perfect. The moon's orbit is slightly slanted in relation to the Earth's, so that is why eclipses don't happen once a month.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Are solar eclipses proof of God?

ABSOLUTELY!

NO DOUBT!

and Lunar Eclipses are Proof ABSOLUTE of the Devil.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: mekhanics
a reply to: ChesterJohn

GOD is proving you that the earth is NOT FLAT, so therefore your bs bible is batsh*t bull#.

The Bible doesn't say the earth is flat. It was known that the Earth was spherical from the time of Aristotle, nearly 400 years prior to Christianity. Eratosthenes calculated the actual diameter of the Earth nearly 300 years before Christ.

Prior to the acceptance of more modern Copernican and Newtonian understandings, the default scientific belief of the early Roman Catholic Church was essentially Aristotelean, that the Earth was spherical and not flat.

The Bible does talk specifically about the curvature of the Earth (Isaiah 40:22) and that it floats, supported by invisible forces in space (Job 26:7), which isn't too shoddy for some late bronze age shepherds.

That's very wrong information you got there... Greeks talked about Earth being a Sphere, and yes Eratosthenes proved it in 240bc something that Pythagoras and others always believed BUT, Early christians and Jews didn't! They hated everything pagan including sciences and philosophy and burned and they destroyed almost 99% of ancient ''pagan'' knowledge literature bringing the dark ages and religious supersticions.THey literaly took the world 1700 years behind in progress!

OF course the bible talks about a flat earth together will all the ignorant understanting of cosmos...
Unlike the wisdom and progress of ancient civilataions like the Egyptians, Romans, Greeks the bible was written by naive dessert nomads that included their poor understanding of cosmos.. THese people had no philosophy, no sciences, no advanced archtecture, no advanced political systems, no astronomy, mathematics.. nothing ... they just stole stories from others that they couldn't really understand while writing down their fake ''history'' and creation...

The Roman church didn't have any schientific beliefs! Just Jewish supersticions They percecuted Greek and Roman Pagan scientists and philosophers.

When I talk about Jewish I mean the religion and not the race, Many Israelites back then were Hellenized pagans, just like Romans!

And no, not all people back then believed in a sphere Earth.. THere were advanced educated people and naive primitive ones!

Lets see the bible; All these verses Describing A Flat Earth Inside A Dome!

Lets start with REv 6.13 which was written ~110ad where they seriously thing of the stars as little shinny objects pinned on the dome!

6.13 and the stars of the sky fell to the earth, like unripe figs dropping from a tree shaken by a great wind.


Job 38:13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?


Job 37:3 He directeth it under the whole heaven, and his lightning unto the ends of the earth.

Job 26:7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing..

Job 9:6 Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble.

Job 28:24 For he looketh to the ends of the earth, and seeth under the whole heaven;

4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

Amos 9:6 (NASB) The One who builds His upper chambers in the heavens And has founded His vaulted dome over the earth,

Isaiah 34:4
And all the host of heaven will wear away, And the sky will be rolled up like a scroll; All their hosts will also wither away As a leaf withers from the vine, Or as one withers from the fig tree.

Samuel 2:8 He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the Lord’s, and he hath set the world upon them.

Samuel 22:16 And the channels of the sea appeared, the foundations of the world were discovered, at the rebuking of the Lord, at the blast of the breath of his nostrils.

Chronicles 16:30 Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.

Job 22:14 (HCSB) Clouds veil Him so that He cannot see, as He walks on the circle of the sky.

Isaiah 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:


Psalm 18:15 Then the channels of waters were seen, and the foundations of the world were discovered at thy rebuke, O Lord, at the blast of the breath of thy nostrils.

Psalm 75:3 The earth and all the inhabitants thereof are dissolved: I bear up the pillars of it. Selah.

Psalm 102:25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.

Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.

Psalm 104:
9 Thou hast set a bound that they may not pass over; that they turn not again to cover the earth.

28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:

29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:

Isaiah 11:12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

Isaiah 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

Isaiah 43:6 I’ll say to the north, ‘Give them up’! and to the south, ‘Don’t keep them back!’ Bring my sons from far away and my daughters from the ends of the earth—
Daniel 4
11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the end of all the earth:

Revelation 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. genesis 1

16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

Psalms 19:

1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.

4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,

6 His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.

Joshua 10:13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.

a reply to: Chromium51

It is the fact that the size of the moon being at the correct distance that when it passes in between the sun it covers it completely.

Did you read the full article?

The moon is a BB you hold in your fingers, your friend has an eight foot beach ball, you ask him to walk down the beach until the beach ball is the same size as the BB it is exactly 400 feet. Now compare the mathematics in the article and it is clear that for it to take place regularly as it does. The odds are something like 1 in 100,000.000,000 with ten thousands zeros after it. Something like that just happening by accident in a big bang situation has even higher odds than that.

The size and distance of the moon and the Sum are so close that when it passes w=between the earth it blocks the sun almost 100%

a reply to: stormcell

yes but their moons do not fully cover the sun.

a reply to: watchitburn

it would takes tens of thousands of years if not more for that to happen. The distance change of the moon is almost indiscernible over the last 5,000 years of men recording it's distance and the changes today since then.

a reply to: HappyFisherman

they still believe the earth is flat!

a reply to: HappyFisherman

source is in the OP. the math is correct.

originally posted by: neo96
Are solar eclipses proof of God?

No.

Solar eclipses are proof of celestial mechanics.

Which just accidentally happened to put the moon at a certain size at the exact distance from the earth so when it passes between the two it blocks out the sun completely. The Odds are pretty much incalculable.

a reply to: mekhanics

hey hold on there buddy.

I never said the earth was flat or ever claimed it was in any of my threads or posts.

So take your tone down a few notches amigo.

a reply to: Monsieur Neary

it wasn't the article Title that intrigued me as much as the math behind it.

a reply to: okrian

will the milkyway be here in 4 billion years?

a reply to: chr0naut

the AV Bible says the sun ran a circuit around the earth. I tried both models of geo-centric and Helio-centric and both models produce the same effect as seen from the earth.

The only way is for us to put our selves or an object for observation in a point in space and know for truth it is not moving, then from there to observe from that still location which one is correct. because the moon moves the earth moves our space craft move and all the universe is moving we cannot tell for certain which one is correct.

So the question still remains unanswered with 1000% accuracy, does the earth with all other planets rotate around the Sun or does the Sun and all the other planets rotate around the earth?

Without an neutral and confirmed completely still un-moving location it will be hard for us to say for sure which model is correct. Helio-centric view is the only view allowed to be taught even though geo-centric view is just as possible according to the models.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

it is also why they vary in location to the earth as they do and the path they take as well.

a reply to: InhaleExhale

a truth is a truth no matter which side you are on for both exist.

originally posted by: Dr1Akula

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: mekhanics
a reply to: ChesterJohn

That's very wrong information you got there... Greeks talked about Earth being a Sphere, and yes Eratosthenes proved it in 240bc something that Pythagoras and others always believed BUT, Early christians and Jews didn't! They hated everything pagan including sciences and philosophy and burned and they destroyed almost 99% of ancient ''pagan'' knowledge literature bringing the dark ages and religious supersticions.THey literaly took the world 1700 years behind in progress!

From a historical perspective, I would disagree.

Flat Earth From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - The Early Christian Church

The Roman church didn't have any schientific beliefs! Just Jewish supersticions They percecuted Greek and Roman Pagan scientists and philosophers.

Modern Science arose from the Universities and Colleges around the world which were pretty much exclusively established and funded by either the Churches or Islam. Although there were dark ages across Feudal Europe, not everywhere in the world went through them.

Please name a single College or University, after the first century and prior to the Reformation, that was notable and secular.

When I talk about Jewish I mean the religion and not the race, Many Israelites back then were Hellenized pagans, just like Romans!

And no, not all people back then believed in a sphere Earth.. THere were advanced educated people and naive primitive ones!

Lets see the bible; All these verses Describing A Flat Earth Inside A Dome!

Lets start with REv 6.13 which was written ~110ad where they seriously thing of the stars as little shinny objects pinned on the dome!

6.13 and the stars of the sky fell to the earth, like unripe figs dropping from a tree shaken by a great wind.

and that means a flat Earth inside a dome? Just no.

Job 38:13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?

You are reading an English translation. A more literal translation says that "He would sieze the extremities of the land and shake". Nothing about a flat Earth under a dome.

Job 37:3 He directeth it under the whole heaven, and his lightning unto the ends of the earth.

Job 26:7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing..

Job 9:6 Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble.

Job 28:24 For he looketh to the ends of the earth, and seeth under the whole heaven;

4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

None of these say anything about a flat Earth or a dome.

Amos 9:6 (NASB) The One who builds His upper chambers in the heavens And has founded His vaulted dome over the earth,

A more literal translation says that He "builds upon the heights of the sky and has founded His binding (Hebrew: aguddah) upon the land".

Isaiah 34:4
And all the host of heaven will wear away, And the sky will be rolled up like a scroll; All their hosts will also wither away As a leaf withers from the vine, Or as one withers from the fig tree.

Obviously metaphor. It uses the word 'like' a scroll.

Samuel 2:8 He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the Lord’s, and he hath set the world upon them.

Samuel 22:16 And the channels of the sea appeared, the foundations of the world were discovered, at the rebuking of the Lord, at the blast of the breath of his nostrils.

Chronicles 16:30 Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.

Job 22:14 (HCSB) Clouds veil Him so that He cannot see, as He walks on the circle of the sky.

Isaiah 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

Psalm 18:15 Then the channels of waters were seen, and the foundations of the world were discovered at thy rebuke, O Lord, at the blast of the breath of thy nostrils.

Psalm 75:3 The earth and all the inhabitants thereof are dissolved: I bear up the pillars of it. Selah.

Psalm 102:25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.

Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.

Psalm 104:
9 Thou hast set a bound that they may not pass over; that they turn not again to cover the earth.

28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:

29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:

Isaiah 11:12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

Isaiah 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

Isaiah 43:6 I’ll say to the north, ‘Give them up’! and to the south, ‘Don’t keep them back!’ Bring my sons from far away and my daughters from the ends of the earth—
Daniel 4
11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the end of all the earth:

Revelation 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. genesis 1

16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

Psalms 19:

1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.

4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,

6 His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.

Joshua 10:13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.

In all that, not a single reference says the Earth is flat. You have filtered your understanding through a sarcastic and incorrect interpretation that someone told you.

Nor do they explicitly say that the heavens are a dome, they merely say the sky stretches overhead. They DO say that the Sun follows a circuit, that the land is round and that God hangs the world on nothing (i.e: the Earth is surrounded by space).

Go figure!

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: chr0naut

the AV Bible says the sun ran a circuit around the earth. I tried both models of geo-centric and Helio-centric and both models produce the same effect as seen from the earth.

The only way is for us to put our selves or an object for observation in a point in space and know for truth it is not moving, then from there to observe from that still location which one is correct. because the moon moves the earth moves our space craft move and all the universe is moving we cannot tell for certain which one is correct.

So the question still remains unanswered with 1000% accuracy, does the earth with all other planets rotate around the Sun or does the Sun and all the other planets rotate around the earth?

Without an neutral and confirmed completely still un-moving location it will be hard for us to say for sure which model is correct. Helio-centric view is the only view allowed to be taught even though geo-centric view is just as possible according to the models.

Relativity and reference frames!

originally posted by: chr0naut

From a historical perspective, I would disagree.

Your link doesn't prove your assertion, and furthermore it's widely known to historians that early christians had to ''fight'' the pagan world view while trying to establish the Jewish (flat earth) one!
That's why at first they used ancient Greek language, way of thinking, values and philosophy, and that's how all gospels were written (originally in ancient Greek) and why the New testament is more sophicticated and far less barbaric than the OT.

Constantine wasn't even a believer, he used Christianity as a tool while trying to establish his empire and wipe out pagans, but the world was still too educated and advanced for adopting Judaic beliefs so they had to use violence! Then the banned everything else and persecuted violently all pagans, they shut down schools( academies), they banned Olympics, together with all festivals and theatre accusing everything to be satanic. They tortured and killed numerous people...
And that scumbag Constantine ( along with other murderers Emperors) was then made Saint by the church!

Modern Science arose from the Universities and Colleges around the world which were pretty much exclusively established and funded by either the Churches or Islam. Although there were dark ages across Feudal Europe, not everywhere in the world went through them.

Total bs, Churches controlled everything that's why. Are u kidding me secular? In christian Theocracies? IT was the worst kind of dictatorship the world had ever shown! There was no other way than to be a monk if you wanted to studdy anything and still under oppression to no disprove the word of god!!! Modern science arose from ancient Greek principles that were suppressed for so many years and rose again with the Reinessence! Every one knows that!

Please name a single College or University, after the first century and prior to the Reformation, that was notable and secular

You are obviously too biased to know anything about history... Christianity was forced in the 4th century ad so until then all academies were secular from the 5th c they were all closed and scientists and philosophers were persecuted violently!
Claiming ''there is no other wisdom greater than that of god''!!!!

and that means a flat Earth inside a dome? Just no.

Exactly what an apologist who's in denial would say

Of course, everything I quoted means a flat Earth inside a dome, do a single research about the cosmological beliefs of ancient Jews and christians and my point will be proved to you, I am not here to educate you. so I won't bother anymore!

You are reading an English translation. A more literal translation says that "He would sieze the extremities of the land and shake". Nothing about a flat Earth under a dome.

Now I am conviced that you are either trolling or seriously in denial to prove your heretic point!

Show me your translation! The original writing comes from Ancient Greek texts and bad news to you I can read them!
Also every single translation refers to the edge of Earth!
Here you go! biblehub.com...

Even the Hebrew one is not the original but translated from ancient Greek! Jews claim the torah would be lost forever if it wasn't the ancient Greeks during the Ptolemaic period to translated to have the Jewish beliefs in their libraries!
The supposed original Jewish doesn't exist now, and all you have in Hebrew is a translation from ancient Greek!

Learn History!

None of these say anything about a flat Earth or a dome.

They say about pillars and foundations, and the edge of the world a Earth being a circle (not sphere) and you dismiss it either way!
You dismiss all dome references as being mistranslations while I proved you are wrong!


OF course, they don't talk about flat Earth, Because a flat Earth was all they knew, they weren't aware of any opposition as to argue and use the world flat! Every time they talked about Earth they meant a flat Earth standing on foundations and pillars with a dome above!
Using your way of thinking, they don't say about a sphere or celestial mechanics either so your own arguments also disprove your claims!s

Educate yourself and don't try to create your own heresy using denial to verses and words that prove you wrong interpreting it in your own illogical way!
On second though believe anything you like and be a heretic all you want. (heretics were burned alive in your beloved dark ages) But don't use your beliefs as arguments to prove anything!

All your assertions were disproved in my last two posts! Again read bible scholars and historians and mythicists works. I am not here to educate you...

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Yeah ... nah. That is deciding the outcome and looking for proof of it. As opposed to looking at the evidence and coming to a conclusion.

If one looks at the author, he's a born again Christian, he may or may not be trained in the mathematics he's flogging off as "proof", I don't know what his Major at Yale was. But even if he can manipulate numbers .... that is not proof. Causation and Correlation are two different things Looking at his ideas, he has no idea what he's doing.