Should Christians Support Trump?

a reply to: pthena

Exactly. And when God hands you the means to defend yourself it's not a lack of trust in God to take it .. like you took the food and clothes.

a reply to: windword

You made the statement, you substantiate it, it's not up to me to prove your statement.

Title should be:

"Should and Do Christians vote like lemmings?"

What self respecting liberal even mentions their faith during voting? It's considered bad taste.

It's just one more way for society to judge you, why even give anyone that?

Both faith and voting are personal choices that people with poor social decision making skills get to get together and judge each other and hash out, disregarding your freedoms to make your own choices with social castration rather than respecting any choice you make.

The obvious answer is Trump is like the least Christian person ever, he would have built a hotel over that confederate statue or a resort casino over Mary Magdalene for the right price. Not saying that you should vote against Trump based on, or not, on Christianity, but only that I seriously question peoples ability(OP included) to actually connect Trump in a positive way to Christ, without it purely being propaganda. No offence but you are asking for one reason? Because here is an easy 10:

1. He lacks compassion.
2. He appeals to fear and anger.
3. He is enamored with “greatness” and ego, but has no concern for “goodness” or service.
4. He lies — a lot.
5. He is hostile to women.
6. He speaks about his daughter(And other women) in a disrespectful and sexualized way.
7. He does not attempt to love his enemies, but instead cultivates antagonism.
8. He does not model sacrifice or altruism.
9. He doesn’t seem to care about the poor.
10. His love of money is more apparent than his love of God or others.

Trump would any sooner be on a mat praising Allah if it was part of a business deal. So if the question is truely if a Christian should vote for Trump, over Christian ideals, the obvious answer is no.

There is much more politically at stake, than is considered, for people that rationalize Trump is even a Christian at all, outside of name/title. He's about as Christian as the girl from my Philosophy class is actually Buddhist. He maybe read a thing here or there on the internet and just adopted it for the sake if conformity and identity, not interest.

a reply to: Who2Trust

I don't consider Trump a Christian, then again neither is Hillary, so it's not a factor.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

The topic is

"Should Christians Support Trump?"

Isn't the answer to this is dependent on Trumps morals and traits being relatable to Christians? Because they aren't. At least traditionally.

Traditional politics is why Christians vote for Trump. Not Jesus. The decision is normally mostly about money. This time it's not even questionable.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

You made the statement, you substantiate it, it's not up to me to prove your statement.

What statement? I asked the question "What did Jesus do when his life was at risk? If Jesus isn't meant to be an example for Christians, I don't know who is.

a reply to: windword

Sorry, we are not all sacrifices to cleanse sin. Nowhere in the NT does it say to do what you claim, which is allow someone to rape and murder your family and do not stop it from happening. That's your claim, do nothing. Show the verses.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

And when God hands you the means to defend yourself it's not a lack of trust in God to take it ..

As it is written:

Ephesians 6:10 Finally, be strong in the Lord, and in the strength of his might. 11Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world's rulers of the darkness of this age, and against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13Therefore, put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and, having done all, to stand. 14Stand therefore, having the utility belt of truth buckled around your waist, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15and having fitted your feet with the preparation of the Good News of peace; 16above all, taking up the shield of faith, with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the evil one. 17And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God;

John 18:10 Simon Peter therefore, having a sword, drew it, and struck the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus. 11Jesus therefore said to Peter, "Put the sword into its sheath. The cup which the Father has given me, shall I not surely drink it?"
...
36Jesus answered, "My Kingdom is not of this world. If my Kingdom were of this world, then my servants would fight, that I wouldn't be delivered to the Jews. But now my Kingdom is not from here."

I think I will refer you back to mOjOm's comment:

You should choose whatever you think is best. But no matter what you choose there's no need to try and justify it by invoking the bible. Just do what you think is best.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04


I can't prove a negative. The ball is in your court. Please quote scripture in which Jesus says there are times when it's okay to use weapons against your enemy. Everything Jesus taught says otherwise.

But, you know, there's plenty of fodder for your beliefs in the Old Testament.

a reply to: Who2Trust

There is an organization which I heard of on MSNBC, maybe AMJoy. It came up because it was slated to get a $400,000 grant from the U.S. Government. The Trump proposed budget cut it to $0, like the National Institute for Arts and Humanities, $0.

LIFE AFTER HATE is dedicated to inspiring individuals to a place of compassion and forgiveness for everyone, including themselves.
...
Life After Hate, Inc., a 501(c)(3) U.S. nonprofit, was created in 2011 by former members of the American violent far-right extremist movement. Through powerful stories of transformation and unique insight gleaned from decades of experience, we serve to inspire, educate, guide, and counsel.

Whether working with individuals who wish to leave a life of hate and violence or helping organizations (community, educational, civic, government, etc.) grappling with the causes of intolerance and racism, Life After Hate works to counter the seeds of hate we once planted. Through personal experience and highly unique skill sets, we have developed a sophisticated understanding about what draws individuals to extremist groups and, equally important, why they leave. Compassion is the opposite of judgment and we understand the roles compassion and empathy play in healing individuals and communities.

If I was a Christian President, I would back this group 100%. Hell, if I was any kind of President.

on topic:

If I was a Christian I wouldn't support Trump. Hell, if I was any one, I wouldn't support Trump.

a reply to: pthena

umm you do realize OT scriptures do nto apply to NT gentiles correct? Windoword is also overlooking this as the turn cheek thing was also In the OT and for the hebrews to do.

ALso Loving your neighbor as yourself means you want to treat them as you want to be treated. I want to live without being killed before my natural death. I also expect if I am trying to hurt someone they defend themselves.

NT followers have very few requirements to follow. That is where so many who dis on christians get their ammo from because they dont grasp the OT laws are not applicable to anyone but the Hebrews,and th eNT are to the rest of us.

a reply to: StandingTallForChrist

True Christians stay out of the politics of Satans regime.
Easily provable that we are not to involve ourself.

a reply to: SeaWorthy

Thank you. I will never forget a missionary lady pointing that out to me. How when Jesus was in the wilderness and Satan offered him all the kingdoms of the world for one act of worship.

a reply to: yuppa

umm you do realize OT scriptures do nto apply to NT gentiles correct?

Yes. The sect which I grew up in blurred the distinctions slightly; 10 Commandments and dietary rules and tithes were considered still in effect, but sacrifices and governmental rules not.

10 Commandments are actually a temporal (people out of Egyptian slavery) covenant with the 7th day Sabbath as sign and seal. So not applicable to NT Gentiles, along with the rest.

The posts in this thread seem to indicate that Windword is completely cognizant of the differences between OT and NT.

ALso Loving your neighbor as yourself means you want to treat them as you want to be treated.

And the Jesus of the Gospels extended neighbors to extend to Samaritans. I don't think that the Gospel Jesus cared about Gentiles. That ending to Matthew is regarded as a late addition. The Apostle Paul invited Gentiles in through Abraham's seed, Jesus. (see Galatians).

I want to live without being killed before my natural death. I also expect if I am trying to hurt someone they defend themselves.

Secular law allows that.

NT followers have very few requirements to follow. That is where so many who dis on christians get their ammo from because they dont grasp the OT laws are not applicable to anyone but the Hebrews,and th eNT are to the rest of us.

There are people who dis all Christians. There are people who dis on Christians when they see Christians spewing OT stuff. There are people who expose Christian hypocrisy. Christians are not all the same, and neither are the critics of Christianity.

I personally can't afford to hate on Christianity. I am pro peace, pro humility, pro generosity, precisely because of the kind of Christianity I learned in my first 33 years of life. Now I'm a heathen. I like to think of my ethics as Christian ethics, because they really haven't changed radically.

a reply to: StandingTallForChrist

My Christian friends here is your chance to support your president. He's going to increase troops in Afghanistan by 7000. Tell your sons and daughters to sign up.

a reply to: pthena

Thank you for the well written post. Yeah i kind of get the feeling ole windy is just trolling some of us.

Whats your OP on matthew regarding the punishment of hell btw? soem of us have read that only during the judgement hell will be opened up. So this is the second death right? But heres a confusing thing. Even Death will be tossed into the Lake of fire and die and be no more. SO how is that eternal punishment? Well other than ceasing to exist.

Shoot even Satan is to be reduced to Ash right?

a reply to: yuppa


I'm not trolling. The Old Testament supports your thinking, Jesus and the New testament, not so much. If you must resort to going old school on your enemies, cite the Old Testament for your justification and then blame Jesus for saying "Not one jot of the law shall change until Heaven and Earth pass away.

a reply to: yuppa

Whats your OP on matthew regarding the punishment of hell btw?

Matt 25:34 Then the King will tell those on his right hand, 'Come, blessed of my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; 35for I was hungry, and you gave me food to eat. I was thirsty, and you gave me drink. I was a stranger, and you took me in. 36I was naked, and you clothed me. I was sick, and you visited me. I was in prison, and you came to me.' 37"Then the righteous will answer him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry, and feed you; or thirsty, and give you a drink? 38When did we see you as a stranger, and take you in; or naked, and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick, or in prison, and come to you?' 40"The King will answer them, 'Most certainly I tell you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.'

41Then he will say also to those on the left hand, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels; 42for I was hungry, and you didn't give me food to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me no drink; 43I was a stranger, and you didn't take me in; naked, and you didn't clothe me; sick, and in prison, and you didn't visit me.' 44"Then they will also answer, saying, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and didn't help you?' 45"Then he will answer them, saying, 'Most certainly I tell you, inasmuch as you didn't do it to one of the least of these, you didn't do it to me.' 46These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

One day I realized that I didn't know anything about eternity, or what personal immortality was. Those are things which seem to be the mystery part of Christianity. Not comprehendible, like the Christian God.

However, homeless and hungry strangers I do understand.
----------
The Tree by Ezra Pound

I stood still and was a tree amid the wood,
Knowing the truth of things unseen before;
Of Daphne and the laurel bow
And that god-feasting couple old
that grew elm-oak amid the wold.
'Twas not until the gods had been
Kindly entreated, and been brought within
Unto the hearth of their heart's home
That they might do this wonder thing;
Nathless I have been a tree amid the wood
And many a new thing understood
That was rank folly to my head before.
---------

Baucis and Philemon
In Ovid's moralizing fable which stands on the periphery of Greek mythology and Roman mythology, Baucis and Philemon were an old married couple in the region of Tyana, which Ovid places in Phrygia, and the only ones in their town to welcome disguised gods Zeus and Hermes (in Roman mythology, Jupiter and Mercury respectively), thus embodying the pious exercise of hospitality, the ritualized guest-friendship termed xenia, or theoxenia when a god was involved.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: yuppa


I'm not trolling. The Old Testament supports your thinking, Jesus and the New testament, not so much. If you must resort to going old school on your enemies, cite the Old Testament for your justification and then blame Jesus for saying "Not one jot of the law shall change until Heaven and Earth pass away.

YEah i remember Jesus saying that,but you must remember who he was talking to as well. HE was talking to the hebrews. the OT covenant applies to his chosen people. the NT belongs to the rest who beleive in him.

@pthena. NIce. And eternal punishment in my OP means permanent. and dying is ceasing to be and returning to dust. so being burnt up to ash is as permanent as a body gets.

a reply to: yuppa

@pthena. NIce. And eternal punishment in my OP means permanent. and dying is ceasing to be and returning to dust. so being burnt up to ash is as permanent as a body gets.

That makes cremation sound bad. Shallow grave(less than 6ft) coffin-less burials aren't legal in my state. Ashes aren't permanently ashes. They contain useful minerals for further nourishment and growth of other life. Ashes aren't wasted unless they are kept in urns.

One place in the OT, the end of the wicked is dead bodies laying around as worm food forever for the righteous to gaze upon forever. Another place has ashes under the feet of the righteous forever. Seems rather a waste. Grass and trees and flowers would definitely look better and less soiling for the feet of the blessed.