Documentary Shows what they claim to be F-117 comp

a reply to: SpeedFanatic
Yeah dunno, i'm leaning more towards Boeing. McDonnells XST entry lines up nicely but there is one catch: The ATA competition and the A-12 production desaster.
McDonnell Douglas teamed up with General Dynamics during the competition (their entrys were very similar) but severely struggeled reducing the RCS to the desired levels prior to production. They even tried to get info from F-117 program but that didnt happen.
So i dont really see how McDonnell Douglas would be able to screw up royally with the Avenger but somehow get the Companion perfectly right.
It's not impossible of course, just unlikely IMO. As far as i know (i should research this further) General Dynamics was the driving force behind the A-12 program and maybe McDonnell Douglas relied heavily on Teledyne Ryan for the Companion.
So who knows.

Another thought about Kosovo: The Companion wasnt used as an ECM platform from the get go.
Maybe they missed Allied Force because they were in the process of adapting the aircraft for the SparkVark mission. The last EF-111s were retired in 1998...
Or maybe they actually adapted them only after they recognized the shortcomings during Allied Force...

funny how we muse on the companion every few years.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Beats trying to figure out the Black Triangles..

a reply to: grey580

i have my own lol, i guess the name of the project is somewhere in that thread


as to the shape im going with a faceted 'C' looking craft with strange humps on it

a reply to: penroc3

I remember finding these at one point in time when looking aorund the web for the companion.

But doubt they were anything of interest.

originally posted by: penroc3
a reply to: grey580

i have my own lol, i guess the name of the project is somewhere in that thread

Yeah thats a fun one. We should revisit the name thing at some point…
www.abovetopsecret.com...

This one is fun too…
www.abovetopsecret.com...

or this conversation
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www.abovetopsecret.com...

or this
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www.abovetopsecret.com...
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www.abovetopsecret.com...

@grey580
First on is Boeing 988-122. Concept design prior to JSF
probably related:
ntrs.nasa.gov... page 15

Looks very much like Wichita though.

the SOFTA pciture from this thread? www.abovetopsecret.com...

interesting rabbbit hole

To me the the companion would possibly hold an EW prefix...

a reply to: Blackfinger

Not necessarily. Best way to hide it is put it under somewhere you wouldn't look. There is a reason the F-117 got a fighter designation.

a reply to: Zaphod58

i know someone who saw a faceted C, and it was all jaggy and pointed at the ends. And it also looked like it had to hemispheres on each bend of the C, it almost looked like it could fold up like a pocket knife.

it's description reminded me of the F-117, and the timing of it seems about right, early 90's.


obviously not a perfect C but that is the best way i can describe it, where it was faceted that is where it would make the lines of the C

a reply to: mightmight

The SOFTA Delta drawings are probably fake (a creation of Schratt/his illustrator buddy?) however the program was real with one demonstrator possibly built.
The real scaled composite designs are here: stargazer2006.online.fr...

Although hardly conventional- the designs heavily rely upon tilt rotor/external rotor operations- not dissimilar to what we see nowadays in VTOL troop transport designs....which lessens the chance of a Schratt type stealth VTOL Delta existing (ast least for this mission role).

Didnt it start off as Senior Citizen Rutans design?

a reply to: Blackfinger

or RQ...might not need to be manned now.

a reply to: Jukiodone

Of all the Burt Rutan design #posting that's going on in those concept three-views, I the one that cracks me up the most is still the B-2 knockoff using Fulton Gear to drop and recover it's troops in space capsules.

It's pretty clear that he smokes the Roger Dean-tier stuff.

i see the muthers at night.....the new b2....triangles and with thermal......i see crazy stuff....like why are some haulin it....some even faster than that.....they give the feeling of slipperyness as you eyes try lock on but they slipped forward....b2 cousin did that.....and then....the same shape will be up there say 55,000 AGL or more i guess/....just sitting still.....and the night sky is full of bats.....big ones...medium and the little cute ones

i can follow them.....the craft.... in east Texas a plenty....here in north Texas at home, they just get on through....i think drones are driving by Sherman Texas for tests...im working on how high they are.....they must be drones due to apparent size

the new b2 has a different trailing edge

da bats....the big ones are royal i swear....they dive at each other like playing....im talking way up there..1500 feet...when they dive they hold their form rigid for the drop....like 4 seconds ....they near another and dance sometimes, you know twirl a little

a reply to: penroc3

When you say faceted "C shaped" aircraft, would you be describing something that looks like this:

fantastic-plastic.com...

There was a patent floating around on the web for an even pointier, more-pterodactyl-like design similar to this.

-Hans

So I've read through this thread and I'm reading one of the threads that was linked from a few years ago. I'm still not clear what exactly this "Companion" is supposed to be? From what I'm reading, there's no concrete info on it and I get that. Can anyone explain, to someone whose never heard of this thing, the basic background why ya'll think this thing exists and what it's supposed to do? What I've gathered, perhaps incorrectly, is it's supposed to supplement some capability the F-117 lacked or just didn't do well enough. I'm aware of this kind of need for certain types of missions, for example a fighter escort on a bomber mission. But it was my understanding the the F-117 and the B-2 relied on their stealth and didn't usually have fighter escorts because the fighters, not being stealthy enough, would just reveal it's position.

Just to be clear, I am perfectly willing to do some reading. However, keep in mind I don't know anything about this thing. So if you link me to a 20-page thread and tell me "start here", that's not helpful because I don't know which posts in that thread are accurate and which posts are from well-informed members. I don't expect something like an encyclopedia page on it either. I dunno, whatever you guys can do haha I'm just a little confused what this thing is/does.

a reply to: face23785

The F-117 was as basic as it gets. Navigation system, FLIR/DLIR, and possibly self lasing capability. It was great at getting in unseen, and hitting its targets, but that was all it could do. It had no self defense systems, of any kind, besides its stealth. It was incapable of SEAD/DEAD or anything else.

a reply to: face23785

->

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Northernhollow

It started as an escort for the F-117 but expanded into the Spark Vark mission after it went away.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Lots ideas have been kicked around.

The F-117 is no full aspect stealth fighter, its optimized against specific frequencies and thus didnt do that well against others (xband vs lband specifically).
As an escort the companion could protect the F-117 against such threats, performing SEAD/DEAD or (later) jamming / direct electronic attack.
As Zaphod said in the quote, it replaced the EF-111 as a first hour support platform at some point during the Nineties, it was probably among the first platforms to have a Suter style capability and stuff like that.

As for what it did initally back in the day - maybe just carrying two AGM-88s downrange, but many if not most think it had some kind of ISR mission as well. This would entail going in first, loitering over the battlefield picking up targets and (somehow) handing them off to the F-117 (or mabye just guiding the bombs themselves). Think of it kinda like a spotter-sniper team. Some have argued that this wouldnt be neccessary since the F-117 is fully capable of picking up targets and guiding its weapons using its own FLIR/DILR system.
I dont think its so easy however, especially when we are talking about mobile or hidden targets in heavily defended areas.
Some time ago i found this piece on the net which sounds very convincing:

Yes the F-117 can self designate. But at the time of the Gulf War (with the original IRADS kit), it was said by some that the narrow 'handover' window between the FLIR (which acquired the target) and the DLIR imposed enormous restrictions on attack profiles (the aircraft had to be flown virtually straight and level for an extended period, with a precisely flown and timed shallow dive mid-way), while co-operative designation between F-117s was impossible for much the same reasons. The replacement kit apparently had wider look angles, removing this limitation. But hence the speculation about third-party targeting for the -117 in some circs.

Looking at what they tried to do with the B-2/QUARZ combo i think its pretty logicial they would want something similar for the tactical realm as well.

Anyway, dont think the companion ever had an AtA capability, simply because i'm sure it was never designated as a fighter. At least initally.
Wouldnt be surprised if it carried heat seakers at some point though.

Is it simply possible that the "Companion" is Tacit Blue? Was it a one off or was it produced in larger numbers than suggested?

There is also that lingering photo of a ufo over Tehran that looks exactly like Tacit blue...... From the late 70's it contradicts the official history of Tacit Blue but still

a reply to: FredT

It's not a one off, or Tacit Blue. It was built in smaller numbers than the F-117s, but there is more than one.