Adding More Gasoline To The Fire: They Just Raised The Antifa Flag!

originally posted by: Abysha


We act as if we don't know they are the enemies? The Nazi party surrendered in 1945, WITHOUT CONDITION. ANY attempt to bring back an enemy that took two nukes to shut up in the first place, is not and attempt to uphold American values.

You mean those A-bombs we dropped on Frankfurt and Munich?

Simply holding Nazi views should be considered treasonous as it is an ideology rooted in breaking everything out nation was build to defend and hold as holy.

You speak as if you want to act even when there isn't a law saying you can't be a Nazi Ect? Are you willing to take matters in you own hands? Damn the laws. You sound like some party from the past but I can't put my finger on it....

.

originally posted by: Abysha
a reply to: Grambler

That is not Charlottesville. If we're doing that, I suppose I could start bringing up random hate crimes and lynchings carried out by the KKK.

We are talking about Charlottesville.

Right you are saying in charloettesville that obviously antifa and others were in the right because nazis and the KKK are evil.

You said the the nazis showing up were automatically the cause of the violence.

I am showing that not always the case.

I could literally make the exact argument you are in reverse.

I could say antifa has a history of bringing weapons and attacking right wing people. Therefore the nazis had to come armed for self defense.

The fact is that if you came bringing weapons, you probably were expecting to cause violence.

The NYT reporter said she saw the left filled with hate and beating downed people with ball bats. Was this self defense too?

Just because we both hate the nazis doesn't mean we can assume they started the violence, or that no one on the other side was guilty as well.

Pointing that out does not make on a nazi defender.

originally posted by: pavil

originally posted by: Abysha


We act as if we don't know they are the enemies? The Nazi party surrendered in 1945, WITHOUT CONDITION. ANY attempt to bring back an enemy that took two nukes to shut up in the first place, is not and attempt to uphold American values.

You mean those A-bombs we dropped on Frankfurt and Munich?

Simply holding Nazi views should be considered treasonous as it is an ideology rooted in breaking everything out nation was build to defend and hold as holy.

You speak as if you want to act even when there isn't a law saying you can't be a Nazi Ect? Are you willing to take matters in you own hands? Damn the laws.......

In hindsight, how does the French Resistance look to us?

In hindsight, how to the ones who acted out (not always legally) against Nazism in the 30's look to us?

Do we criticize them? No. Put some historical context into your filter, here. Yes, they are small in numbers but never in my lifetime has Nazis been defended so openly.

All I know is what we've learned from history. History showed us that non-action does not stop ideologies like the KKK, Nazis, or any other white nationalist group.

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: pavil

originally posted by: Abysha


We act as if we don't know they are the enemies? The Nazi party surrendered in 1945, WITHOUT CONDITION. ANY attempt to bring back an enemy that took two nukes to shut up in the first place, is not and attempt to uphold American values.

You mean those A-bombs we dropped on Frankfurt and Munich?

Simply holding Nazi views should be considered treasonous as it is an ideology rooted in breaking everything out nation was build to defend and hold as holy.

You speak as if you want to act even when there isn't a law saying you can't be a Nazi Ect? Are you willing to take matters in you own hands? Damn the laws.......

In hindsight, how does the French Resistance look to us?

In hindsight, how to the ones who acted out (not always legally) against Nazism in the 30's look to us?

Do we criticize them? No. Put some historical context into your filter, here. Yes, they are small in numbers but never in my lifetime has Nazis been defended so openly.

All I know is what we've learned from history. History showed us that non-action does not stop ideologies like the KKK, Nazis, or any other white nationalist group.

History also shows us that groups that label their opponents as evil and then proceed to act out unlawful violence on them don't end up working to well.

a reply to: Grambler

Ugh... my days of casually tolerating such clear and decisive apologist rhetoric is over. I can't see your side. If we were talking about the Tea Party, I could (and did, back in the day).

But we aren't. I look at this no differently than if ISIS groups marched through downtown Portland with torches, chanting extremist garbage, flying ISIS flags. I doubt this site would be criticizing ANTIFA for throwing bottles at those guys.

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: pavil

originally posted by: Abysha


We act as if we don't know they are the enemies? The Nazi party surrendered in 1945, WITHOUT CONDITION. ANY attempt to bring back an enemy that took two nukes to shut up in the first place, is not and attempt to uphold American values.

You mean those A-bombs we dropped on Frankfurt and Munich?

Simply holding Nazi views should be considered treasonous as it is an ideology rooted in breaking everything out nation was build to defend and hold as holy.

You speak as if you want to act even when there isn't a law saying you can't be a Nazi Ect? Are you willing to take matters in you own hands? Damn the laws.......

In hindsight, how does the French Resistance look to us?

In hindsight, how to the ones who acted out (not always legally) against Nazism in the 30's look to us?

Do we criticize them? No. Put some historical context into your filter, here. Yes, they are small in numbers but never in my lifetime has Nazis been defended so openly.

All I know is what we've learned from history. History showed us that non-action does not stop ideologies like the KKK, Nazis, or any other white nationalist group.

History also shows us that groups that label their opponents as evil and then proceed to act out unlawful violence on them don't end up working to well.

"Label"?! Really? They no more need a label than the sun needs one. There is no moral ambiguity here.

And yes, it took violence to get rid of them the first time. Lots of it. Preventing that sort of foothold in our nation (thus preventing that level of violence) should be paramount to every patriotic American out there.

Why would Beverly Hills Antifa come all the way to Virginia?
Seriously expensive jaunt.
Somebody is putting money in to this (Soros)

a reply to: Abysha

But we aren't. I look at this no differently than if ISIS groups marched through downtown Portland with torches, chanting extremist garbage, flying ISIS flags. I doubt this site would be criticizing ANTIFA for throwing bottles at those guys.

The difference is they would be free to do so, and any violence against them would still be a crime.....

I understand your thought process here, and trust me I think the KKK are despicable human beings, but I just feel that many (because of their belief systems, and no one is immune) are failing to look at this critically

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
The difference is they would be free to do so, and any violence against them would still be a crime.....

I understand your thought process here, and trust me I think the KKK are despicable human beings, but I just feel that many (because of their belief systems, and no one is immune) are failing to look at this critically

I'm not arguing the legality of assault. If I punch a Nazi for standing on the street corner, I should be arrested.

My point is that, had they been ISIS (with a permit and everything), do you think ATS would be saying the fault lay at "many sides"?

Honestly?

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
The difference is they would be free to do so, and any violence against them would still be a crime.....

I understand your thought process here, and trust me I think the KKK are despicable human beings, but I just feel that many (because of their belief systems, and no one is immune) are failing to look at this critically

I'm not arguing the legality of assault. If I punch a Nazi for standing on the street corner, I should be arrested.

My point is that, had they been ISIS (with a permit and everything), do you think ATS would be saying the fault lay at "many sides"?

Honestly?

I would HOPE so, but whose to say, I totally understand where youre coming from.....

Im not a supporter of any of these groups, maybe thats why when I say the fault lays at both sides, its genuine.....I dunno couldnt tell you....

But I dont think thats a wrong assessment either......

I guess I dont understand why either side is upset at holding all sides accountable for their actions....

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
The difference is they would be free to do so, and any violence against them would still be a crime.....

I understand your thought process here, and trust me I think the KKK are despicable human beings, but I just feel that many (because of their belief systems, and no one is immune) are failing to look at this critically

I'm not arguing the legality of assault. If I punch a Nazi for standing on the street corner, I should be arrested.

My point is that, had they been ISIS (with a permit and everything), do you think ATS would be saying the fault lay at "many sides"?

Honestly?

I'm trying to follow this discussion, this part trips me up a little. Your disdain and disgust hinges upon a hypothetical?

If they were American citizens gathered under the law then this poster would not deter nor assault any of them. However, I may counter protest.

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
The difference is they would be free to do so, and any violence against them would still be a crime.....

I understand your thought process here, and trust me I think the KKK are despicable human beings, but I just feel that many (because of their belief systems, and no one is immune) are failing to look at this critically

I'm not arguing the legality of assault. If I punch a Nazi for standing on the street corner, I should be arrested.

My point is that, had they been ISIS (with a permit and everything), do you think ATS would be saying the fault lay at "many sides"?

Honestly?

Yes.

I feel that many of the people you are accusing of being nazi defenders would in fact defend radical Islamist in the exact same way.

We see people like Farrakhan who preach racial hatred and the downfall to america, or ward churchill, and many others who publicly call for the destruction of our country all of the time.

They even get time on television shows.

And if anyone attacked them for their heinous views, that too would be condemned by me and many others.

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
The difference is they would be free to do so, and any violence against them would still be a crime.....

I understand your thought process here, and trust me I think the KKK are despicable human beings, but I just feel that many (because of their belief systems, and no one is immune) are failing to look at this critically

I'm not arguing the legality of assault. If I punch a Nazi for standing on the street corner, I should be arrested.

My point is that, had they been ISIS (with a permit and everything), do you think ATS would be saying the fault lay at "many sides"?

Honestly?

Yes.

I feel that many of the people you are accusing of being nazi defenders would in fact defend radical Islamist in the exact same way.

I don't believe that for a second. I have difficulty believing that you believe that but I'll have to take you at your word; I've known you to be pretty straight-forward in the past so I won't doubt you here.

But, damn... if the double standard we've seen in the past were any indication, this site would be filled with both liberals and conservatives cheering on counter protesters, even violent ones, if they were counter protesting ISIS.

And yes, if I saw an ISIS march down my street... I can't promise I wouldn't huck a bottle or two. I wouldn't cry about my arrest being unjust nor do I think throwing bottles at state enemies should necessarily be legalized but, hey... that ideology is violence. Resisting violence is self defense.

a reply to: Abysha

The French Resistance was during wartime after their country was defeated and occupied. Hardly an apples to apples comparison.

Nazism is appalling, but in our country, we can't silence any group by force when we disagree with it. It's a very troublesome precedent to set. We have laws to deal with violent behavior. Obscene political thought, repugnant though it may be, shouldn't be silenced if there is no direct link to violence. Once you can establish the violence, then by all means go after any group carrying it out. Violence has no place in our political system. History also shows us that silencing political thought is fraught with danger. All it does is make the cockroaches scatter. Forcing repugnant thought underground doesn't work, you have to fight those warped ideals out in the open. Let people seem them for who they truly are.

a reply to: Grambler

The Southern Poverty Law Center is highly critical of Farrakhan and other black separatist groups, they are considered a hate groups alongside skinheads and KKK..

And rightly so.

So, if Sharia law activists came to town, had a rally about how they will enforce it, their opine would be alright? Should not be infringed on? How about ISIS talking about with signs and chants about lopping the heads off of Americans in the middle of town in their protest? For example: Post threads on the topic of Sharia law concerns in the US say otherwise.

originally posted by: dreamingawake
So, if Sharia law activists came to town, had a rally about how they will enforce it, their opine would be alright? Should not be infringed on? How about ISIS talking about with signs and chants about lopping the heads off of Americans in the middle of town in their protest? For example: Post threads on the topic of Sharia law concerns in the US say otherwise.

This situation was literally just talked about in the last page

If this march/protest had been allowed to just happen, without interference, by these few hundred people, then it would have been a non story. But it seems as an outsider, that others were purposefully permitted to interfere and cause trouble where there probably wouldn't have been any. The alleged Nazis would have marched on had their little speeches and rally and gone home. We have had similar incidents here in the UK years ago when the BLP or previously the National Front rallied. There was always the sudden influx of opposing tribes making an appearance and antagonising the BLP, which lead to serious clashes that wouldn't have happened had they been allowed to just get on with it and go home, point made. The second an opposing faction appears, they should be shipped away so this kind of thing can't happen and yet they are allowed to remain and cause mayhem. Wonder why?

I feel for you lot over there, and pray daily this kind of crap doesn't make its way over the pond

originally posted by: Asktheanimals
Why would Beverly Hills Antifa come all the way to Virginia?
Seriously expensive jaunt.
Somebody is putting money in to this (Soros)

its called protesting.
i know some british anti facists that flew over to protest the nazi scum.
you think all the neo-nazis lived within goostepping range?