Charlottesville Driver Innocent?

So I have been following this Charlottesville incident casually. I try not to get too emotional about current events as I always find often times the situation may not be as it initially seems or what is being reported. I try to do my own analyses instead of just being spoon fed whatever is being parroted by the media given their inherent biases. I took this approach with a lot of cases that got both media and social media attention, namely the cases such as Travyon Martin, Freddy Gray, and other cases. As in practically all of those cases, the situation was not as initially presented.

A few things before I even begin:

1) In no way am I supporting Nazi, white nationalists beliefs. For the record, I think they are basement dwelling scum bags.
2) In no way am I justifying the young lady killed or the other injured victims

Just looking to have a reasoned discussion. As we saw in the other cases, the supposed perpetrators were found innocent after all the facts were presented in a court of law and the hysteria calmed down. I am wondering if we will see the same thing in this case.

We do know that both sides were involved. This is not a case of peaceful left wing protesters as being presented, just as Trayvon was not a 90lb kid drinking tea and eating skittles.

The media has presented this as a case of a guy intentionally mowing down left wing protesters, but is that really what happened? Is this a situation where a guy may have felt threatened and responded as many people would do in such a situation? We have to be mature about this and set aside the nazi beliefs. Regardless if one is a Nazi or BLM supporter, if you are surrounded by the opposition, it may lead you to do things in the name of self-preservation. Your beliefs are irrelevant if you think your life is at stake. In the videos I have scene, it seems like this guy was surrounded and he was attacked BEFORE he ran into the crowd.

If you recall, an incident happened in NYC two years ago where a young investment banker ran over a bunch of motorcyclists. When the story first came out, it was presented with the motorcyclists being innocent victims just out enjoying a weekend ride.

When I first heard the incident, it didn't sound reasonable. Why would some guy just randomly run over a bunch of bikers. What actually happened was that the motorcyclist were a bunch of squids/hooligans doing stunts on the FDR illegally shutting down traffic. A bunch of the motorcyclist surrounded the guy in his car (wife and infant inside) and threatened him. Being he was in a Range Rover, the driver decided to test out his 4x4 capabilities in light of being surrounded by dozens of thugged out bikers. He ran a bunch over. No one died, but one biker was paralyzed IIRC.

Here is the video for those who may not have seen it. In this case, no charges were filed against the driver of the car (skip to 45 seconds to see the Range Rover in action) because I think most reasonable people felt the guy was justified. However, in this case, the guy is not a Nazi. The question though is does that even matter? Why is the guy in the video "innocent" but the Charlottesville driver not? Are these not two similar situations except for the beliefs of the driver?



Those saying he had nothing to fear. Really? Some of you may be too young to remember Reginald Denny during the Rodney King LA riots, but I recall watching it on live TV. Reginald was a white truck driver who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. The thugs, I mean activist protesters, were rioting and Mr. Denny happened to go down the wrong street. He was pulled out of his truck and nearly beaten to death on live television. I wonder what would have been the reaction had he just mowed down the protesters instead?



It will be interesting to see how this shakes out. While I think this guys beliefs are absurd, I do question whether this was actually an intentional act or an unfortunate incident instigated by protesters getting out of line on both sides.

I can guarantee this guy's defense attorney will be presenting evidence to show the driver's life was threatened. It may or may not work in court. However, I am not really buying this guy just decided to randomly run down protesters until presented evidence to show the contrary.

originally posted by: Edumakated
Just looking to have a reasoned discussion. As we saw in the other cases, the supposed perpetrators were found innocent after all the facts were presented in a court of law and the hysteria calmed down. I am wondering if we will see the same thing in this case.

When you are in a car, and you hit someone from behind, it's always the person from behind's fault. I think the same thing may be true with a car hitting a person. If your front bumper hits someone hard enough to kill them you may be in trouble. I'm just trying to have a "reasoned" discussion.

a reply to: Edumakated

How can you declare this guy innocent without any presented evidence showing that is the case? No one cares about your feelings on the matter. Present actual evidence.
What We Know About James Alex Fields, Driver Charged in Charlottesville Killing
Instead of just deciding that this guy is innocent just because you cannot fathom why someone would intentionally drive a car into a crowd of people, how about researching the facts on the ground?

I can guarantee this guy's defense attorney will be presenting evidence to show the driver's life was threatened.

Gee, ya think?

However, I am not really buying this guy just decided to randomly run down protesters until presented evidence to show the contrary.

That's what investigations are for.

Personally, I think the video taken from behind that shows him not braking and driving in a straight line towards the crowd is going to be the biggest obstacle for his defense. If he was scared of something that happened why would he drive towards a mass of people down the street instead of backing up away from them when the street was relatively sparsely populated?

a reply to: Shamrock6

It doesn't help that he tried to flee the scene afterwards too. One of his charges is a Hit and Run charge.

a reply to: Edumakated



Look, the guy paused and thought about what he did, from afar. He sat there for a few seconds, and then hit the gas. He premeditated for a moment, before he did what he did.

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: Edumakated
Just looking to have a reasoned discussion. As we saw in the other cases, the supposed perpetrators were found innocent after all the facts were presented in a court of law and the hysteria calmed down. I am wondering if we will see the same thing in this case.

When you are in a car, and you hit someone from behind, it's always the person from behind's fault. I think the same thing may be true with a car hitting a person. If your front bumper hits someone hard enough to kill them you may be in trouble. I'm just trying to have a "reasoned" discussion.

Unfortunately, not a lot of "reasoning" in your post. You are right in situations where it is a normal traffic incident. Even in those cases, the driver is not always found guilty of following too close. I know from experience as I rear ended someone after a drunk driver took a car out in front of me on highway. Police officer wrote ticket to me for driving too close, but judge saw there was nothing I could do in the situation.

But alas, that is not really what is being discussed here. This has nothing to do with traffic, but someone potentially feeling threatened while in a vehicle.

The question is simple, if you are surrounded by a mob and they being to attack you, are you within your rights to run them over? Stay focused.... if not, why was the guy in the first video I presented considered innocent?

I mean, I really hope you are capable of seeing the difference.

Is there anywhere decent someone knows of that has all of the videos posted of this incident?
I've only seen two videos and neither show much.

Great points made in the OP. I too will reserve judgment on this particular topic.

Curious that you feel the need for these disclaimers

1) In no way am I supporting Nazi, white nationalists beliefs. For the record, I think they are basement dwelling scum bags. 2) In no way am I justifying the young lady killed or the other injured victims

Usually, I don't have to make disclaimers like that unless I think that my opinion is going to somehow suggest that those things are in fact true.

The lady doth protest too much, methinks

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Shamrock6

It doesn't help that he tried to flee the scene afterwards too. One of his charges is a Hit and Run charge.

Range rover in video I presented above fled the scene too. You don't want to hang around when surrounded by a mob...

originally posted by: kruphix
Curious that you feel the need for these disclaimers

1) In no way am I supporting Nazi, white nationalists beliefs. For the record, I think they are basement dwelling scum bags. 2) In no way am I justifying the young lady killed or the other injured victims

Usually, I don't have to make disclaimers like that unless I think that my opinion is going to somehow suggest that those things are in fact true.

The lady doth protest too much, methinks

Nope, it is just because some of you are incapable of discussing anything without making accusations that one supports white nationalist. I'm black by the way.

a reply to: Edumakated

I don't care about that video. That video is 100% irrelevant to what went down on Saturday. So forget about it. You cannot prove or disprove this guy's guilt with those videos and you are just making yourself look like a nazi apologist by reaching like you are doing. If you were sincere about disproving this guy's guilt, you'd get a real argument complete with evidence. Right now it looks like you have no clue what happened on Saturday and just want to declare him innocent just because.

a reply to: Edumakated

You don't want to hang around when surrounded by a mob...

Especially not after you've just plowed into said mob, amirite?

a reply to: Shamrock6

In the court of public opinion people are the right will claim Alex Fields is the victim which I find pretty disgusting.

How was the driver's life threatened is going to be purely a subjective judgment. Where there any car window's broken? Did anyone shoot bullets into the car? This is going to be a cluster eff for media madness. Good for the ratings. The outlets will make tons of money.

They charged Fields with second degree murder. Those Charlotte DAs are NOT fooling around!!

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Edumakated

How can you declare this guy innocent without any presented evidence showing that is the case? No one cares about your feelings on the matter. Present actual evidence.
What We Know About James Alex Fields, Driver Charged in Charlottesville Killing
Instead of just deciding that this guy is innocent just because you cannot fathom why someone would intentionally drive a car into a crowd of people, how about researching the facts on the ground?

I don't think the OP meant to declare him innocent. The "?" doesn't show up in the title in the recent threads list-view.

The title is "Charlottesville Driver Innocent?"

NOT "Charlottesville Driver Innocent."

originally posted by: kruphix
Curious that you feel the need for these disclaimers

1) In no way am I supporting Nazi, white nationalists beliefs. For the record, I think they are basement dwelling scum bags. 2) In no way am I justifying the young lady killed or the other injured victims

Usually, I don't have to make disclaimers like that unless I think that my opinion is going to somehow suggest that those things are in fact true.

The lady doth protest too much, methinks

How ironic because the member put the disclaimer there to avoid getting labeled as only a precaution. Of course you immediately jumped to conclusions and proved that the OP had a pretty good reason to do so. Damn i love irony.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: Edumakated
Just looking to have a reasoned discussion. As we saw in the other cases, the supposed perpetrators were found innocent after all the facts were presented in a court of law and the hysteria calmed down. I am wondering if we will see the same thing in this case.

When you are in a car, and you hit someone from behind, it's always the person from behind's fault. I think the same thing may be true with a car hitting a person. If your front bumper hits someone hard enough to kill them you may be in trouble. I'm just trying to have a "reasoned" discussion.

Unfortunately, not a lot of "reasoning" in your post. You are right in situations where it is a normal traffic incident. Even in those cases, the driver is not always found guilty of following too close. I know from experience as I rear ended someone after a drunk driver took a car out in front of me on highway. Police officer wrote ticket to me for driving too close, but judge saw there was nothing I could do in the situation.

But alas, that is not really what is being discussed here. This has nothing to do with traffic, but someone potentially feeling threatened while in a vehicle.

The question is simple, if you are surrounded by a mob and they being to attack you, are you within your rights to run them over? Stay focused.... if not, why was the guy in the first video I presented considered innocent?

I mean, I really hope you are capable of seeing the difference.

I'd say in this situation if they were trying to gain access to your vehicle you should have the right to run them over. They're breaking the law blocking the roadways anyways.

So

You say the guy is innocent. You post a couple videos of cars hitting people as evidence. Yet none of them are the actual event? Numerous videos everywhere of what happened, and you post none of them???? Why?

a reply to: MotherMayEye

So instead of making a declaration, he is making a tabloid piece by asking a question he cannot prove or answer. That is SOOO much better.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Edumakated

I don't care about that video. That video is 100% irrelevant to what went down on Saturday. So forget about it. You cannot prove or disprove this guy's guilt with those videos and you are just making yourself look like a nazi apologist by reaching like you are doing. If you were sincere about proving this guy's guilt, you'd get a real argument complete with evidence.

How is it irrelevant other than the beliefs of the driver? So are you claiming that rednecks don't fear for their lives?

What if the roles were reversed? So the driver is a BLM/Antifa protester and he gets caught in a mob of Nazi sympathizers? He decided, screw it, I am going to mow these guys down to get away. Does your opinion change?

I know having logical discussions for some of you is difficult. It hurts your brain.

Thanks for proving my point about why I put the disclaimers too...