Here’s What Happens When Male Marines Go Up Against Mixed-Gender

a reply to: roguetechie

Never knew that about the Cole.

a reply to: SudoNim

No, because it's not his opinion it's 100% fact and even the rigged jokes of studies they're doing to justify all this shows substantial performance deficits in mixed units!

The "feminists" and their allies just insist that It's not ENOUGH OF A DECREASE to "deny women the same opportunities"...

Maybe you should actually know something about the actual state of a situation and the facts before accusing others of not having them.

a reply to: SudoNim

Wow, what a joke of a post from a joke of a poster...

P.s. sunshine...

Bullets give no f***s about your social justice warrior "right thinking"... Neither does the enemy!

How dare you have the audacity to think your little theories and social justice are more important than the lives of actual soldiers!

ITT

"A penis means more accuracy with a gun."

Good to know if they have a vagina bullets no longer inflict damage.

Oh wait, that's not what I read...

a reply to: SudoNim

You have no point whatsoever and have now shown you're low information stereotype believing true colors with your screed about black soldiers (no such thing as African Americans, you're an American or you're not PERIOD... just fyi)

First off "performance" wrt military service and testing etc is based on a battery of mental physical psychological and other testing the scores of which are ALL IMPORTANT!

If you can't measure up in EACH AND EVERY ONE you are a liability and a danger to your fellow service members.

The fallacy here is that military service should somehow be open to all individuals regardless of their actual fitness to serve... And you call Americans backwards?

a reply to: roguetechie

The standard to serve being ubiquitous is discrimination. Like reading laws for blacks to vote.

If they are large put then in the front line. They will need to carry downed soldiers. If they are small utilize them as spies and scouts. If they are disabled, place then on intelligence at a computer. This is the American way, not what you described.

a reply to: Aegeus

Honestly, i would totally be cool with say an all female submarine crew... I am certain that they could even outperform male crews assuming they were held to the same high standards naval nuclear career track individuals are held to now!

There are some other areas women absolutely excel in too...

I had a few female friends who were all RN's and served in the same combat medic unit in iraq on several deployments.... These tiny very attractive women had videos and pictures from Iraq that would blow your mind!

(Example: my friend M we'll call her has video of her blackhawk coming into a medevac hard and fast with bullets rpgs and etc still very much flying and her hanging out the door with a second belt fed hanging on an improvised strap LEANED AROUND THE DOOR GUNNER methodically pounding bursts and screaming profanities at the enemy for the entire approach! You see her hop out, scurry between covers as bullets thwack all around her and she's throwing back bursts from an m4 JUST TO GET TO THE WOUNDED GUY! To say the least, she is a certified titanium balled badass ten times over... Asked her if she'd ever go infantry armored cav or etc ONCE! She quietly set her drink down smacked me in the back of the head and said "why would i do that? I love our troops, I'd die for them! Put me in a unit with them though, and I'd get them killed!")

That and other conversations like it told me everything i needed to know about this subject... (I still did my research anyway though!)

These beautiful wonderful courageous and completely badass women universally reviled the idea of this as stupid, selfish, and dangerous!

I'll trust them over hillary ray mabus and ivory tower egg heads any day

a reply to: CarlsBad

The American way?

Oh that thing our military fights and dies to protect... That American way?

There are just plain some things that are too important to mandate "fair play"... National survival is one of them!

If you can't see that then you're blind.

P.s. you have no idea what "scouts and spies" do, what that entails, how they do it, or the physical requirements thereof... That's extraordinarily obvious from your hilariously ignorant and completely delusional suggestion that women should be made "scouts and spies".

So answer me this, why should your opinion or input be tsken seriously when you're so arrogant disrespectful and ignorant you haven't even bothered to do some very basic homework to find out what the "scouts and spies" jobs in the modern military entail before imperiously decreeing women should be given them?!

See that's a huge part of the problem with this entire subject, those insisting women can and should be given these jobs and that men are just inferior, scared of being outperformed, misogynistic, and etc are inevitably people who have zero respect for or understanding of the military, those who serve, or what service entails!

You are ignorant arrogant self absorbed dismissive of the cost in lives and injuries your little experiment will cause, and then you wonder why you're hated reviled ignored and etc...

You also wonder why people are leaving the military rather than be subjected to potentially being killed endless lectures and powerpoints etc about how they're bad evil mean misogynistic idiots and aren't allowed to object or even ask questions about anything....

You are hateful spiteful spineless worthless feckless and fearful tiny little people who have no respect for anyone including yourselves

a reply to: pavil

It was bad man....

The whole incident and the way it was whitewashed ... I'll just say the current controversial stuff and etc woulda never ever ever got where it is now if the Navy hadn't been terrified to take the steps that should have been taken in the wake of the Cole bombing!

Honestly between that and the way the Navy has methodically and deliberately went out of it's way to essentially break, run to destruction, or otherwise destroy our current inventory of warships aircraft and etc in a temper tantrum over the funding situation the last 10 years....

I have no faith in their ability to actually defeat a real competent and determined foe, and bitterly begrudge nearly every dollar in funding the navy currently receives!

Note: If you're not an admiral, not a paper pusher by choice, have dolphins on your collar, are a riverine, and or several other entire groups as well as dedicated and patriotic individuals serving in the navy..... It's not you guys I'm mad at!

I'm mad because you guys are being disrespected, your lives risked, and your ability to do your jobs compromised by the people actively sabotaging the Navy.

a reply to: roguetechie

Many here have the same fears that existed when blacks were allowed to serve. There were the same arguments being made. In my experience women have shown themselves capable of handling combat. In fact a female door gunner once saved our as''s when we called for medical evac. Haji had us pinned down from 2 direction's and we were hiding in a local village. This crew came in and she tore up their southern flank. Not only did we get to evac out two wounded soldiers but she cleared an escape path for my unit.

We were able to bug out with limited resistance and even managed to take out most of the remaining talibhan as they attempted to chase us up a ridge line. Without her help we would have been fubar. So to say they can't is just silly some if the most fearless medics I met were female. I've seen them in the middle of a fire fight in the open treating wounded because they were not going to let a soldier die. I'll day sometimes a woman's compassion is just what's needed on a battlefield. I'll even admit the first ten years I was in I would habe made the same arguments as many here. But after 15 as active and another 10 in reserves I have seen beyond any doubt the advantages far out weigh the risks.

originally posted by: FHomerK
a reply to: toysforadults

Now now....

All of that has changed. Emotions override reality. We ARE ALL THE SAME.

Welcome to the snowflake era. You get trophies for being on the team, without winning, without even showing up.

a reply to: dragonridr

That's all great. Of course there are many individual acts of heroism by females on ops. My unit RAP had a female medic who had the MC a few years ago for actions under fire in Iraq. We have had plenty of decent chick medics attached, and they brought useful skills to the party. However they don't have to do the same training that an infantry bod does to prepare them.

Infantry guys have to patrol long distances carrying over half their body weight, be able to sprint carrying that weight, go over obstacles and drag themselves through buildings wearing 30lb of body armour and kit, fighting all the way. They have to drag casualties who are also wearing that kit through buildings and ditches. If someone goes down it usually won't be the medic carrying them, it will be the other patrol members. The medic just treats. The females will have to patrol, but will sit with the platoon sergeants group until the fighting is done.

In my experience on ops the females always carry less weight on patrol. They aren't given section ammo, mortar bombs, patrol radios, batteries, ECM or any of the other heavy kit that is spread among the patrol. I have worked with some who will refuse to carry patrol kit but will try to fob some of the medic bergan on the guys as it is too heavy. I have never had a male medic try that. Despite this they invariably need help crossing obstacles or pulling themselves out of drainage ditches we use for cover.

Don't get me wrong, they were useful if someone got injured and they would be handy for dealing with local women. I was happy enough to have them for their skills. They just couldn't perform at the same physical level as the guys.

a reply to: dragonridr

Frankly and succinctly you've either failed to read and comprehend what I've said or you're plain wrong...

It is not anything close to the same situation as with black soldiers, but nice try on the bigot/misogynistic insinuations there chief...

I've listed extremely specific verifiable consistently similar findings across a great number of peer reviewed publications which i have not cited, instead choosing to make the ultimate in damning real world citations/indictments... The USS Cole

I know some truly great female soldiers, that were i to pick a team to fight my way through the lobby of hell with they'd damn sure be a part of!

That actually changes absolutely nothing... They're actually the ones who explained to me what a colossally stupid idea all this is... Just fyi

In other words, the baddest broads i know who have personally spit on their hands and dropped bodies in windrows.... They universally see this as a terrible idea.

Pardon me if i hold their professional evaluations, the mountains of studies, and the real world evidence in higher regard than your anecdotes.

a reply to: PaddyInf

Exactly!

My female friends all went in as medical personnel... They also ALL FOUGHT when they needed to!

But i guess physics biology biomechanics group dynamics gender relations primate mating habits evolution has hard coded in and all that other bulls*** doesn't matter now because...

Gurl Powa?

a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

I was thinking primarily on marksmanship as I got mentally hung up on that one point. You are correct, the outcome isn't difficult to fathom.

a reply to: SudoNim

NO other option that YOU can think up you mean,(VERY sad ,a COMPLETE absence of logic when it comes to human development ,history and EVEN basic PSYCHOLOGY,but I guess they think it's REAL so ...)
More left wing "USEFUL IDIOT" Marxist, devotion in play for all to see,so they can take down US warriors by shunning them because we kill.
MAN, I am SO sick of HOMOPHOBIC civilians explaining their emotional opinions.
ESPECIALLY when it comes to a field SO ALIEN ,all they can do is bleat their philosophy from YOGA class.

originally posted by: ketsuko
The simple answer is to set the standards for what they need to be on all skills and for all physical feats and take anyone who can pass.If you find a woman who can do it, then let her in, but you likely won't find very many.

Thanks Ketsuko, best answer so far, hence the large number of stars. (Shows that crowd consensus here at ATS works!)

Obviously, don't discriminate based on race or gender, the test is opened to all, let the best person win.

My one additional suggestion is to actively recruit all types of people. Don't try to recruit one specific class of people, such as men only. Make entry into the contest open, and attractive to everyone.

Threads like this don't help things much, if they discourage people from trying to compete.