*Hunting the Fast Movers*... back to the past!

originally posted by: Jukiodone
a reply to: BASSPLYR

www.google.com...

Filed in 2006.
Could have been around for a lot longer.

China are recently claiming similar feats.

If you thought about it as a potential consideration in lets say ...1990..... that gives you 27 years to come up with some countermeasures if the Chinese are not overstating current capability.

Don't confuse quantum illumination and gravimetry. I will confidently make the blanket statement that no human anywhere has any means of "masking" mass, detecting the gravitational pull of an aircraft in flight, creating an antigravity effect, or sourcing a measurable gravitational field in the lab.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: andy06shake

Pulse jet engines are awesome, for cruise missiles and small platforms. They've never been able to get over about Mach 2, even with a large scale testbed.

What large scale testbed was flying at Mach 2 with a pulse jet?

a reply to: andy06shake

GOOD ON YOU after THE US sacked that sweet TSR bird by our 'games" I can TELL why.

a reply to: wirehead

It didn't have a name. They built a scale demonstrator, like 1/2 scale or something like that and plugged a pulse jet into it.

originally posted by: wirehead

Don't confuse quantum illumination and gravimetry.

I'm not.
The article is describing the same gravimetric radar technology as the patent.
Whether it exists or not is debatable.

originally posted by: wirehead

I will confidently make the blanket statement that no human anywhere has any means of "masking" mass, detecting the gravitational pull of an aircraft in flight, creating an antigravity effect, or sourcing a measurable gravitational field in the lab.

I agree that it is unlikely on : Anti Gravity.

In the spirit of blanket statements; on the rest you are probably wrong.

Here's a video of a Head of Department at Porton Down on a BBC doc. demonstrating his "Quantum Gravity Radiometer" which seems to detect mass at a distance using gravimetric perturbation of atoms as a sensor.



youtu.be... if the link timestamp is not working.

Dont know anything about this guy - but I have a sneaky suspicion that if he is giving open interviews in what looks like a pretty underfunded, university level lab- others may have already explored it more thoroughly.

a reply to: cavtrooper7

I don't quite follow buddy, whats good on me? And whats a "TSR bird by our 'games" and what can you tell and why?

Do you mean Tactical Search and Rescue?

Might be me, i'm a bit hung over, just not quite understanding what you mean.

a reply to: Jukiodone

Even the company Siemens sells gravametric detectors for measuring weights without touching the material. Works on fluids. Solids etc.

If you cant see, hear or detect a moving object even with radar. The next logical step is to , by using triangulation with gravametric sensors, to detect the aircrafts mass pertubance against the background (sp) as it travels.

The guys who work on this stuff are really really clever. Bet they found a way to do that.

As for anti gravity. Should it even be called anti gravity or something else. Guys in labs are using superconductors to lower the mass of electrons. Not a lot but enough to technically reduce the mass. It is a type of mass reduction.

Finally i invite anybody, if they know where to go to watch these things , to hang out in antelope valley and tell me they havent figured sonething out along those lines after witnessing the manuevers they can do. Not all of those lights zipping around are optical illusions (some are-ecm etc) but some are physical vehicles. Explain how, after witnessing one do as standard trick for them, they can decend thousand of feet in a blink to a dead stop hover for 45 minutes then shoot off from a standstill and cover several miles in less than a second. Think im making that up. Go see em for your self.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

Hi Bass, to carry out those manoeuvres I am guessing they would be unmanned ? And what on earth is powering them to move so fast. I would love to take a trip out and have a look. Nothing exciting like that where I live

a reply to: nelloh62

Dont know if theyre manned or not. But i dont think theyre AI operated. They make mistakes. It looks like theyre training new pilots for them or something. One will go up do a series of manuevers like its going through an obstacle course. Then it will sit off and hover while a second one will try and do the same manuevers as the first. But it will look clumsy in its attempts as if that pilot is still learning the ropes.

Also it would appear that they have about a squadron sized force of them. Ive seen six at once. The other 4 will just hover overhead as if watching or waiting their turn. Who knows whats really going on though.

Anyways. In two months im moving to a place with even less going on than you nelloh. Ill also have poor internet so i wont be on ats much after then. And i certainly wobt be seeing nor reporting any anomalies in the sky. Thats an era in my life thats almost over. Moving on to see if i can be a family man. The biggest challange of my life and certainly the scariest.
Those who want to keep in touch with me after then already have my personal info or know how to go about requesting it.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

yep, the dancing lights are very interesting.

a reply to: punkinworks10

Theres whole communities in that valley that know about them. Have hushed conversations about them. And to their credit also protect them by not discussing with outsiders.

But damn the manuevers these things can do. Happy knowing their ours. Sucks to be our enemies. Real question is whats their mission.

a reply to: punkinworks10

Did you get to see them close up ? If so, did they make any noise, i.e like a jet whine or prop noise

a reply to: nelloh62
Although not directed at me:

One hovered at about 1000 foot alt. Over a service road by the aquaduct near taft where our truck was parked. Watched it for several minutes. No noise.

originally posted by: BASSPLYRGuys in labs are using superconductors to lower the mass of electrons. Not a lot but enough to technically reduce the mass. It is a type of mass reduction.

Gonna need to see a reference for that one. If gravity couples different to macroscopic quantum phenomena, that's 100% a game changer in the study of physics and for unification theories. It would be setting the physics world alight.

originally posted by: Jukiodone
youtu.be... if the link timestamp is not working.

I will try to watch this when I have time, but I'll be sifting through an hour long program to try to find the specific experimental setup and claims. It'd save a lot of time if there was any sort of link to the people, lab, experiments, papers involved.

a reply to: andy06shake
www.dailykos.com...
There Ya go...

a reply to: nelloh62

I saw the dancing lights over the central valley 10 years ago.
Here is the kicker, I saw them just after seeing, the bright white steady state light I've seen and posted about on several occasions.
The white lightm as usual approached from the west, passed over town, at an altitude of less than 14k, i could see the silohette of the sierra behind it, then it "winked out". A few minutes later, I noticed what appeared to be a star moving, so I watched as it and a couple other points of light started to "dance". They did rotating figure eights about a fixed point, that was moving. Its really hard to put into words, but imagine a couple points of light chasing each other in mobius strip sort of pattern. Now imagine that mobius strip rotating in 3 dimensions about the point where the paths cross. Now imagine several pairs of lights doing this, with each path rotating about a common point. The closest thing I can reate it to is an animation of several atoms sharing electrons.
So they did this dance for more than a few seconds, eventually flinging one light out of the group at a fairly high rate,then they did a "starburst" and all flew off in different directions.
I got the sense they were at a farily high altitude, because there was other aircraft in the air at all levels.
Ive seen sngle and paired lights doing stuff no aerodynamic craft could possibly do, like right angle turns and reverseing direction without turning.
From the stuff I've seen and from some obscure articles and a discussion with a former math professor, an f'ng genius who considered theoretical physics just a day to day application of the math, I'm certain we have the ability to negate either mass or inertia, to allow for such manuvers.

a reply to: Jukiodone

By reading between the lines of the pop science articles I could find, it sounds like they're talking about using a Bose-Einstein condensate interferometer to perform gravimetry. I managed to find, e.g.,

Cold-atom gravimetry with a Bose-Einstein condensate
journals.aps.org...

They demonstrate the viability of using BEC interferometry for gravimetry. This isn't even the state of the art these days, I've heard people can do BEC on a chip now.

Now, gravimetry as it's commonly used refers to measuring the gravity of the Earth, specifically its subtle variations from place to place. This is important because it underscores my main point: you need something about as massive as the entire Earth (~6 * 10^24 kg) to start detecting its gravitational field in a lab.

The Greenglow people are talking about using gravimetry to circumvent stealth, i.e., detect the gravitational field of an airplane in flight. (I'm still not sure if they claimed success, or failure, or it was all on the drawing board, or what, since I'm still trying to find info on it)

It's quite easy to do a back of the envelope calculation to see what sort of precision we're talking about here.

Let's say you have a BEC of a couple thousand Rubidium atoms, since that's pretty standard.
For the target, let's say a fully-loaded 747 flying only 100 meters over your head (in real life, I hope you wouldn't need a quantum gravimetric detector to detect this!). That should make our estimate even more conservative.

The question is, what sort of gravitational force does the 747 exert on your BEC? Well it would be on the order of 10^-31 Newtons.

Of course, the BEC isn't that massive, so maybe the effect of that small force would be big enough to be noticeable. The BEC would accelerate on the order of 2 * 10^-9 m s^-2. It would accelerate to two nanometers per second after one second of integration time.

To my mind, maybe that's not immediately prohibitive, but it sounds quite small. The question is, how precise are BEC interferometers, typically? The trick is to translate that acceleration into a phase shift relative to a control beam (that's another can of worms, how do you keep one beam unaffected), and then figure out the strength of the interference fringes. That's something I'm working on calculating now. Hard to say, but it might be on the edges of what is possible.

On the other hand, there's a very good reason why gravitational forces between objects in a laboratory have not been measured: gravity is very very very very very weak, as we see here.

There's a much bigger problem though, in my opinion: gravity is sourced by everything. The signal (a measly 10^-31 Newtons) would be swamped by the gravity of the changing atmospheric weather patterns, minute variations in the flow of underground rivers, trucks driving past on the highway, the scientist in the room walking closer or farther away, etc.
If your apparatus is precise enough to detect a 747 at 100 meters, then by necessity it's going to be affected by whether you're wearing your heavier socks today, or forgot to brush your teeth. It'll be affected by the janitor forgetting to take the trash out of the 3rd floor men's bathroom last night. It has to be, otherwise you won't see #!

Anyway this is very interesting, thanks for bringing it up. I'm going to keep digging. My apologies if this is all obvious to you.

a reply to: wirehead

Wirehead,
The University of Califonia-Humbolt is currently conducting experiments to measure quantum gavity effects on macro scale objects.

They are suspending two small spheres, each 1mm in dia, from some sort of nano fiber in a vacuum chamber. When the two spheres are moved very close to each other, some aspect of quantum gravity is supposed to induce a rotation in the spheres proportional to the strength of the macro gravity field.
As they move the spheres close to each other, to submicron distances, they can measure the torsion in the fiber in some way and detect impossibly small angular displacements.
The angle was described as such,
If you take the same sphere used in the experiment, place it in los angeles and look at it from the Humbolt campus(600+miles away), the angle subtended by the sphere represents the amount of torsional diplacement they are able to detect.
Its in like pico degrees.

Sent you a Pm Bass
Keep shiney side up mate..