Special Counsel Mueller Impanels Washington Grand Jury in Russia Probe

originally posted by: Xcathdra
So it gets leaked that a grand jury is impaneled and who its looking at yet nothing leaks with info to put it into proper context.

Is a Grand Jury the same thing as a jury that you pick in any city or town? If so, it takes time.

originally posted by: DanteGaland
Grand Jurries indict 99.99% of the time
Source

SO...you CAN technically claim that this WON'T lead to an indictment...

But the stats say it probably will...

Indictment of?

a reply to: ketsuko

I'll go out on a limb and say that whatever case is being made, it's not especially strong. That is the readon for the grand jury. Otherwise, why not just charge them with crimes? Just charge their butts, show your evidence before a district magistrate judge, and basically have them on the run from the get go. Have the case bound over for trial at the preliminary and start making deals. This is a moment of weakness that Mueller is showing here.

a reply to: Arizonaguy

Understand how and why grand juries exists.

The TL;DR is, any federal felony crime but be presented before a grand jury for indictment.

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: Xcathdra

The source could literally be one of the fifty or so people who got a letter to show up.

sure.. or a member of Mueller's team.

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Xcathdra
So it gets leaked that a grand jury is impaneled and who its looking at yet nothing leaks with info to put it into proper context.

We must wait to the end to get absolute context.

Be patient and do not dismiss until that context is provided.

I know i know...

a reply to: Xcathdra

Finally this buffoon and disgrace in chief will be brought to justice.

a reply to: Xcathdra

True. Just bringing the point that "official" sources is very vague. If it is in fact one from Muellers staff, and is found out, the whole council should be abolished.

a reply to: JinMI

You can, and often times are charged with Federal crimes without an indictment. Re-read your Constitution. No person shall face trial except by grand jury indictment OR preliminary hearing.

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: Xcathdra
So it gets leaked that a grand jury is impaneled and who its looking at yet nothing leaks with info to put it into proper context.

Is a Grand Jury the same thing as a jury that you pick in any city or town? If so, it takes time.

No. It's not the same. That is why it's not just a simple process as some would like to have.

The GJ allows more people to be involved in the investigative process and the decision to prosecute.

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: Xcathdra
So it gets leaked that a grand jury is impaneled and who its looking at yet nothing leaks with info to put it into proper context.

Is a Grand Jury the same thing as a jury that you pick in any city or town? If so, it takes time.

Same concept but different areas of responsibility. A grand jury for the Mueller probe can issue subpoenas and can place people under oath to testify before them. A grand jury at the federal level is mainly investigatory. Since Mueller doesnt have the authority to place people under oath or issue subpoenas, he uses the grand jury to do that.

A grand jury like this is run by the prosecutor who can restrict what material the members hear. The accused do not get to present a defense to a grand jury and since you dont need 100% agreement in order to indict, its easy to get an indictment.

If indictments are issued they can be challenged in court to a judge.

Our grand jury system is old common law and last I checked only 2 countries on the planet use a grand jury like we do here in the states - Liberia is the other country and since that country was founded by freed slaves from the US there was some carry over.

Its one of the last vestiges of common law.

originally posted by: Arizonaguy
a reply to: ketsuko

I'll go out on a limb and say that whatever case is being made, it's not especially strong. That is the readon for the grand jury. Otherwise, why not just charge them with crimes? Just charge their butts, show your evidence before a district magistrate judge, and basically have them on the run from the get go. Have the case bound over for trial at the preliminary and start making deals. This is a moment of weakness that Mueller is showing here.

If there was anything pertinent whatsoever, it would have surely leaked during the campaign or by now. Remember there's Intel operatives involved and leaking on a daily basis. This is the most politically motivated expensive fishing expedition ever done in history of the US. They are out to destroy Trump and families political careers and nothing more. Its filled with Clinton friendly and anti Trump lawyers. They are going to investigate unrelated business deals that have nothing to do with the campaign. Thus is why I'm so cynical about our govt.

originally posted by: richapau
a reply to: Xcathdra

Finally this buffoon and disgrace in chief will be brought to justice.

Provided Mueller is investigating Clinton. Losing an election AND being brought to justice would be the cherry on the parfait.

a reply to: Arizonaguy
Keyword: Felony

Preliminary does not indicate indictment, only the grand jury can do that in federal felony cases. So at least, there is a felony charge being looked at.

ETA: Also, GJ can use their power (or in the name of) do discover, subpoena and question new witnesses to gain more evidence/information.

originally posted by: richapau
a reply to: Xcathdra

Finally this buffoon and disgrace in chief will be brought to justice.

Brought to justice for what exactly?

Being on a grand Jury once( wouldn’t recommend it) I know that it is a legal lynch mob.


I asked the prosecutors WHY they constantly referred to the people under investigation as defendants BEFORE they were indicted.

They actually, while I was there, stopped doing it.

After I walked out of the place, being disgusted, I'm sure they went back to doing it.

A lot of people better get lawyers fast

a reply to: Xcathdra

These are good points and also demonstrate the farce investigation performed by Comey. No transcripts of interviews, no audio, no videos and definitely no memos. He allowed evidence to be destroyed and granted immunity left and right to relevant witnesses. And this is why I'm cynical.

a reply to: Willtell

Subject or target are the proper terms in my experience.

A legal lynch mob wouldn't be an accurate representation. Given the fact that they can't convict anyone.

Majority agreement monkeys may be a better description. As stated numerous times, the prosecutor(s) get to frame the case. Target or subject defense is null and any exculpatory evidence they find only needs to be provided to the defense counsel.

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: Arizonaguy

Understand how and why grand juries exists.

The TL;DR is, any federal felony crime but be presented before a grand jury for indictment.

PARTLY...

A grand jury is an INVESTIGATIVE panel that uses the power of subpoena to DETERMINE whether or not to bring charges.

And as I SAID...in Fed cases, 99.99% of the time charges ARE brought.