What is a FAIR Health Insurance Premium for a 5700 Deductible.?

America is being used and abused by the worldwide medical/healthcare industry. Seriously.

Most other "1st world" industrial democracies have some kind of single-payer or universal care. This enables the government to negotiate directly with big pharma and the medical device manufacturers. The UK can say, "No, we're not paying $5 per pill of Nexium, GTFO of here". That's millions of customers for Astra Zenica, the makers of Nexium. They don't want to loose that many people.

The healthcare companies (that includes pharma, device makers, ect, ect) all are big corporations. The shareholders all want and expect a certain profit margin.

They can't make that profit margin over seas in other countries, so they jack up the prices in America to make up the difference.

America: Funding the rest of the world's lower medical costs....all because we refuse to organize ourselves and go to a single-payer or universal healthcare system too.

a reply to: carewemust

yes you are correct, that slime ball reid said as much. they wanted single payer but they knew it wouldn't fly. so we got obumacare. with the knowledge it would fail and single payer was the next avenue.

a reply to: carewemust

Agreed.

We have a perfect storm that is coming to an end because costs can not or will not be contained.

If our medical system were any other service in our life, like cable, we would have fired them and switched long ago. But like any other monopoly, you can't. And with no cost controls, guess where prices go (it ain't down).

Also, I'm not a car or a house. I'm a human being.

I buy car or home insurance hedging that I'll never have to actually use it.

You can't say the same with health insurance. Everyone eventually gets sick or has an accident. I can drive around with a dent in my car. I can't exactly go through life with dislocated shoulder that heals improperly.

Lots of things work great in a true "free market", where competition can drive down prices. This assumes, of course, that there is competition and no monopolies.

The problem is, you can always choose to not buy a product. The same isn't true with healthcare.

Well, I guess you can just die and choose to let your family members die instead of selling your house and going bankrupt. I mean, Grandma is old anyway...

If we want to go that route we ought to fully legalize suicide and install suicide booths like in Futurama. Have a medical condition you can't afford? Well you can choose not to have it treated and die, and hell -- we've got handy suicide booths to make it speedier and faster!

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
a reply to: pavil

what does that have to do with forcing me to buy insurance or lose my refund, and owe a couple hundred more.
before obumacare i paid for my own no one else paid one cent of it.

i have no problem helping those that can't help themselves, if asked or i see a need. but to force me to foot part of the bill for someone else is not freedom.

besides i might not like you.😈😈😈

I assume you don't pay taxes or have car or home insurance? Not forcing you to buy insurance, just making sure you pay in full in advance for services and care should you decide not to have the insurance. If you don't want health coverage, then pay up or die. Sorry to be blunt but having those services available only when you need it costs a lot. I mean you want to use the services if you did get sick right? I'm sure you have $16,000 set aside for that one chemo treatment.....now what about the next 7 treatments?

a reply to: kurthall


Great post, Kurthall. Even though we see sick and injured people all around us, we never think that we could be joining them tomorrow. Or like you say, in the case of 30 year old's, they feel that they'll be healthy and live forever that way.

What people don't realize is that if they have assets, or income, both can be partially seized/garnished to pay medical bills. They complain about the high-premiums and deductibles, but that's nothing compared to the $80,000 that you'll pay, one way or the other, for your next surgery and follow-ups.

Also, a whole lot of people wouldn't even buy car insurance, if it wasn't mandated by the (state) government.

a reply to: pavil

in fact i do pay taxes, and have insurance on myself and the better half, all the cars, and house. it has always been a smart move to have insurance, and i have always had it. but i was never forced by the government to buy it or my money taken away for not doing so. that there is not freedom it is socialism and that is not what this country was founded on.

it should be my choice, not the governments.

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

You are required by law -- aka "forced" to have car insurance. There are penalties if you don't have car insurance.

Well, if you want to ever drive the car off your own property.

a reply to: pavil


You don't have to get "really sick" to pay $5,000 Pavil. The average Emergency Room cost right now is $1,233. If you need an MRI for assessing your condition, add in another $3,200.

Check out this list of prices from a "transparent" hospital. Notice that the Operating Room charges like a parking meter!
www.mhsystem.org...

a reply to: Kettu

but in auto insurance they don't take your refund if you don't buy it. you lose the privilege of driving your car.
big difference.

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: WUNK22

Do you think it was a mistake that bush left negotiations out of the medicare prescription drug coverage? It is a cash cow that is lobbied for. In fact medical is the #1 lobbied measured by real dollars.

Seasonal, you raise an interesting point that I've never contemplated. How does it benefit the government to pay more for Senior's prescription drugs? You're hinting that the ability for drug-price negotiations for Medicare Part-D (Prescriptions) was omitted for a reason.

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: the owlbear

And you would have to use the e-room. Hope you don't need meds, cause you are going to have to steal them.

Been without them for two years now.
One would be so beneficial.
Hell, I'd just like an annual check up for $50 and a blood screen for another $50.
Doesn't seem like too much to ask.

A typical doctors wellness visit is $175 for the initial. And then cost of all of the blood work, THEN an additional cost to come back in to said doctor to find out the results of the tests that he/she didn't perform but recommended and they just read to you...for another $75-125 if you're lucky. Total about $600.

Compare that cost from the cheapest ACA plans that have a $3500 deductible before they even start to pay in addition to the premiums for said plan which are nearly $300/month...and that scary tax penalty isn't so scary since the tax penalty at maximum is less than half of the cheapest amount that you will have to pay out of pocket ON TOP OF THE PREMIUMS...

originally posted by: the owlbear

I make $17,000 (clear much less).
I owe student loans.
I'm too poor To pay for health insurance without being homeless.
Unqualified for Medicaid due owing student loans.

If I were to have any major health problem...it would be reflected on all of your bills.
Sorry for what my bankruptcy does for your premiums when I finally need care since I have no access to simple preventative care for cheap thanks to health insurance providers.

At $17,000 a year, you only have to pay 3.5% of your income (which would be $50 a month) for ObamaCare health insurance, with a relatively low deductible.

The PENALTY you would pay on your 2017 taxes for not having health insurance will be $695, which equates to $52 a month.

Your SMART move would be to get the health insurance!

originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: pavil


You don't have to get "really sick" to pay $5,000 Pavil. The average Emergency Room cost right now is $1,233. If you need an MRI for assessing your condition, add in another $3,200.

Check out this list of prices from a "transparent" hospital. Notice that the Operating Room charges like a parking meter!
www.mhsystem.org...

No doubt...... I was just using it as a worst case scenario. Even a minor operation with slight hospitalization can add up super fast. There is Zero incentive to maintain or reduce costs. I don't have the solution but I sure as hell have noticed what doesn't work. The thing is the doctors got in on the game of sucking at the insurance companies/ drug companies/medical equipment companies teats as well as hospitals. multi payer has been a failure in covering everyone and controlling costs. I'm ready to try some other options. This is coming from a conservative. Multi payer had it's chance to work, it hasn't. Time to move on to other options. Yes I get that government control isn't great, neither was the other option we've been trying for so long. As others have stated, many other advanced first world counties are doing healthcare better for it's citizens than America. It's time to reinvent healthcare.

a reply to: Kettu

What many people are having a hard time with, is coming to grips with the fact that our elected officials are putting lobbyists and special interests, ahead of what's best for voters/consumers/taxpayers.

We keep saying what the government COULD DO, but we never do what's necessary to make them get it done on our behalf.

Poor President Trump.. I don't know how he's able to hold his cool when interacting with so many selfish, callous, characters who have ZERO integrity.

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
a reply to: pavil

in fact i do pay taxes, and have insurance on myself and the better half, all the cars, and house. it has always been a smart move to have insurance, and i have always had it. but i was never forced by the government to buy it or my money taken away for not doing so. that there is not freedom it is socialism and that is not what this country was founded on.

it should be my choice, not the governments.

Not what our country was founded on?!? Provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare? Do the blessings of Liberty not include having to be bankrupted should you get really sick? might want to read .....

a reply to: pavil


i have many times.
they didn't force people buy something take or they would take your money from you. and the things you mentioned were for the protection of the Union. the states were independent from the federal government and each and every law had to be ratified by the states. many laws didn't. as it is today

many of the founders saw that this could be a over bearing government and warned that people would use it to control the people.

plus no where in the Constitution does the word socialist state or socialist republic appear.

a reply to: Kettu
I just had to learn about this. For the record, in some states you don't actually have to have car insurance. You can "prove you are financially responsible". For most regular people that means buying insurance but there are other options.

In Indiana you can post a $60k Surety Bond, post a $40k cash deposit with the State Treasurer or get approved as a Self Insurer by the Bureau of Motor Vehicles. I have no idea how that last one goes though.

I would post links but I don't feel like looking for them online. That info came straight from my study book for the property and casualty insurance exam.

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
a reply to: carewemust

yes you are correct, that slime ball reid said as much. they wanted single payer but they knew it wouldn't fly. so we got obumacare. with the knowledge it would fail and single payer was the next avenue.

If Democrats have a system in mind that they think/hope will work, they certainly don't want it to go into effect while their #1 enemy is in the White House. Their desire for Trump's failure is greater than their desire to help Americans. (I just heard that phrase from Eric Trump, being interviewed on Hannity.)

a reply to: pavil

here are a few quotes from the founders.

#1 “A wise and frugal government… shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government.” — Thomas Jefferson, First Inaugural Address, March 4, 1801

#2 “A people… who are possessed of the spirit of commerce, who see and who will pursue their advantages may achieve almost anything.” – George Washington

#3 “Government is instituted to protect property of every sort; as well that which lies in the various rights of individuals, as that which the term particularly expresses. This being the end of government, that alone is a just government which impartially secures to every man whatever is his own.” – James Madison, Essay on Property, 1792

#4 “Banks have done more injury to the religion, morality, tranquility, prosperity, and even wealth of the nation than they can have done or ever will do good.” – John Adams

#5 “To take from one, because it is thought his own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, the guarantee to everyone the free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it.” — Thomas Jefferson, letter to Joseph Milligan, April 6, 1816

#6 “The moment the idea is admitted into society that property is not as sacred as the laws of God, and that there is not a force of law and public justice to protect it, anarchy and tyranny commence. If ‘Thou shalt not covet’ and ‘Thou shalt not steal’ were not commandments of Heaven, they must be made inviolable precepts in every society before it can be civilized or made free.” — John Adams, A Defense of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America, 1787

#7 “I place economy among the first and most important virtues, and public debt as the greatest of dangers to be feared. To preserve our independence, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. If we run into such debts, we must be taxed in our meat and drink, in our necessities and in our comforts, in our labor and in our amusements.” – Thomas Jefferson

#8 “Beware the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry.” – Thomas Paine

#9 “If we can but prevent the government from wasting the labours of the people, under the pretence of taking care of them, they must become happy.” – Thomas Jefferson to Thomas Cooper, November 29, 1802

#10 “All the perplexities, confusion and distress in America arise not from defects in the Constitution or Confederation, not from a want of honor or virtue so much as from downright ignorance of the nature of coin, credit and circulation.” – John Adams, at the Constitutional Convention (1787)

#11 “The principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale.” – Thomas Jefferson

#12 “Liberty must at all hazards be supported. We have a right to it, derived from our Maker. But if we had not, our fathers have earned and bought it for us, at the expense of their ease, their estates, their pleasure, and their blood.” – John Adams, 1765

#13 “If ever again our nation stumbles upon unfunded paper, it shall surely be like death to our body politic. This country will crash.” – George Washington

#14 “I wish it were possible to obtain a single amendment to our Constitution. I would be willing to depend on that alone for the reduction of the administration of our government to the genuine principles of its Constitution; I mean an additional article, taking from the federal government the power of borrowing.” – Thomas Jefferson

#15 “When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.” — Benjamin Franklin