I left Freemasonry in 2016, and I am happy to discuss the subject.

originally posted by: GoatWizard

I sent a request for demit in writing, per the rules of the jurisdiction.

I am out.

Lucky you.

They let you leave with all those secrets you now know.

I guess that's the big difference between the lodges of various jurisdictions.

It does seem that each lodge can have it's own rules.

a reply to: BigBangWasAnEcho
What do you consider "baby Masons"?

a reply to: gimcrackery
Not really.

a reply to: AMPTAH
Freemasonry is, first and foremost, an initiatic order whose rituals attempt to transform men. The ritualistic initiation is what separates Freemasonry from the other fraternal and philanthropic organizations such as the Kiwanis or the Rotary. Note that I am not trying to denigrate any of those organizations, but Freemasonry is not just a social or philanthropic group.

a reply to: AMPTAH
What jurisdiction doesn't allow it's members to demit?

originally posted by: Hazardous1408
a reply to: Shamrock6

OP is already hanging from a bridge with bricks in his pockets.

My grand father in Hawaii was FM, and for what it's worth, there is no penalty for leaving. However, that being the case, he also mentioned of you did leave, and something happened to you, you're body would never be found.

Lol

originally posted by: FHomerK
It seems to be the norm of late here on ATS, that folks who are safe and cozy behind their internet connections and feel perfectly secure in blatant attacks on others.

Yesterday, I posted a thread response stating that while working as a bartender in the suburbs of Washington D.C. I saw someone confronted by the Secret Service because of statements that they wanted to do harm to the president and or his family. One person in particular chose to say that they disbelieved that the SS would take something seriously, let alone actually come and confront the person accused of saying such a thing?

Are there loons on the internet? Yes. Are there people who want attention? Yes. Are there people who simply enjoy lying through their teeth? Yes.

But dear lord.... there were no grandiose claims made.

ATS, keep this kind of approach up, and you are quickly going to find yourself losing members due to the hostile and provoking mentalities that exist here.

Not entirely true, maybe for uninformed and ignorant folks, for others with specialized skill sets, trolls have electronic addresses, which are easily tracked geographically.

Having said that, best example supporting this fact, go no further than the CIA (remember Snowden?).

originally posted by: SecretSector
My grand father in Hawaii was FM, and for what it's worth, there is no penalty for leaving. However, that being the case, he also mentioned of you did leave, and something happened to you, you're body would never be found.
Lol

Why? If you left Masonry and were no longer part of it, what threat would you be, given that EVERYTHING is online and Googleable?

What super dooper secrets do you think Freemasons possess that are a) not already available online or b) would bring down the organisation should an ex-brother speak of their past?

Even before I joined Freemasonry and was curious and confused by what it was/is, I never thought they/we had any special access to, or were in control of any real power or genuine secrets that if released, would shake the foundations of society.

All that is completely Hollywood. We're just a bunch of guys who like helping others, contributing to the community and charity, and want to be better men. That's it.

originally posted by: noonebutme

originally posted by: SecretSector
My grand father in Hawaii was FM, and for what it's worth, there is no penalty for leaving. However, that being the case, he also mentioned of you did leave, and something happened to you, you're body would never be found.
Lol

Why? If you left Masonry and were no longer part of it, what threat would you be, given that EVERYTHING is online and Googleable?

Now see, there's a lot of contradiction in what you just said.

If everything is online, and googleable, then there would be no need for anyone to join the Freemasons.

Just google FM and learn all the things yourself, and save your self the "dues" and the hassle of "attending meetings" just to hear lectures about the same things that are already online.

About the only things of value that you can learn online is that "Freemasons are required to deceive cowans (e.g. Albert Pike)" and that "Freemasons try to make good men better (Their marketing slogan)"

But, there's no definition of "good", that you can find online, that Freemasons use.

In fact, Freemasons don't even require you to believe in any particular God, so whether yours is the "God of Light" or perhaps the "God of Darkness", that's perfectly fine with masonry.

Evidence therefore must from the "actions of masons" in the world, from time to time, as these things are revealed.

So, for example, Norwegian Freemason Anders Brevik illustrates one reality, that there is "darkness" there in some lodges.

Presumably, there are opposite lodges, where there is much "light", also, since the "darkness" cannot exist with out the "light."

But, how to know, in advance of joining, which lodges are "dark" and which lodges are "light"?

They are too secretive about "what they do" for outsiders to know.

Hence, when you find yourself in the "wrong lodge" for your personality, you obviously must try to do like the OP and "demit".

So, we understand why the OP chose to "get out" of his lodge. But, that still doesn't tell us which lodge he was in, since we don't know which is his God.

originally posted by: GoatWizard
a reply to: Sheye


nor people that publicly took one position on race, but took a very different one in actual practice. could go on all day like this probably, but that is enough.

Over time, I realized that Freemasonry is at odds with my personal spiritual direction.

So, NOT socializing with hypocritical conartists is at odds with your spiritual direction? Hmmm...

a reply to: AMPTAH
So you think that reading something is just as good as first hand experience of going through an initiation? I'll tell you it's not. Freemasonry is something to experience not to be idly read.

About the only things of value that you can learn online is that "Freemasons are required to deceive cowans (e.g. Albert Pike)" and that "Freemasons try to make good men better (Their marketing slogan)"

A few things you should know is that just because Pike wrote something doesn't make it true or factual.

Pike even states the following in the Preface of Morals & Dogma:

"Everyone is entirely free to reject and dissent from whatsoever herein may seem to him to be untrue or unsound."

Members of the Supreme Council said the following about Pike:

"Just because Albert Pike was a brilliant ritualist, an able administrator, and a well-respected Mason doesn't mean all of his opinions are right."

Anti-Masons hold a misguided belief at what constitutes authority in Freemasonry. Since the 18th century, many Masons have published works concerning Freemasonry, writing on various theories and subjects within Freemasonry. Anti-Masons would have others believe that everything a Mason writes is inherently accepted by all of Freemasonry. The problem here is that not everything written by a Mason has been factual, but as Freemasonry is a society dedicated to knowledge and free thought, Grand Lodges have not interfered with what an individual Mason writes. A Grand Lodge is the only entity within Freemasonry that has authority to speak on the symbols, rituals, history, and so on. Without receiving an endorsement from a Grand Lodge, a Masonic author is merely giving his opinion, he does not speak for all Freemasonry. Freemasonry is much more than just the writings of a single Masonic author.

In fact, Freemasons don't even require you to believe in any particular God, so whether yours is the "God of Light" or perhaps the "God of Darkness", that's perfectly fine with masonry.

That's your assumption, but as you are not a Mason it is not for you to say what we think is fine or not.

So, for example, Norwegian Freemason Anders Brevik illustrates one reality, that there is "darkness" there in some lodges.

He was a bad apple that was expelled once he showed the world what he was.

Presumably, there are opposite lodges, where there is much "light", also, since the "darkness" cannot exist with out the "light."

You presume incorrectly.

originally posted by: GoatWizard



There was "antidiluvian" (hope I spelled that right) Masonry before Solomonic Masonry. You can see some remnants in the Third Degree (Third Section), and in a couple Scottish Rite Degrees.

I highlighted that word because it sounded familiar. But Aside from that, you mentioned the king james Bible in one of your posts. I read somewhere that Freemasonry had some codes that unlocked messages within the Bible. Is this true? If so Why?

The other question is, what does the King James Bible have to do with freemasonry? Why is it being used there?

Should I trust the King James knowing the freemasons use it? I am a Christian, following mostly the KJV and somewhat of the book of Enoch. And from what I can see, the God of the King James is not the same "god' of the Roman Catholic church (ISIS) and Islam (also ISIS.)


But if you can answer these questions it would mean alot.

originally posted by: KSigMason

A few things you should know is that just because Pike wrote something doesn't make it true or factual.

I understand that very well. No mason can speak for Freemasonry. And nothing that a Freemason says can be construed as valid for all of masonry. The problem is that non-masons can't differentiate between opinion of one mason and generally accepted views of some other collection of masons. So, he just has to talk to as many Freemasons as he can, to get a more complete picture. All the actions of Freemasons then become important, because this shows the variety and diverse nature of the activities of the craft, despite the attempt by some to claim there is one coherent theme, like making good men better.

Anti-Masons hold a misguided belief at what constitutes authority in Freemasonry.

I would suggest to you, that it is not only anti-masons that have a "misguided belief", but many initiated masons themselves hold "misguided beliefs" about the craft of masonry, hence the main reason that members often "demit" after receiving "more light" on the matter.

That's your assumption, but as you are not a Mason it is not for you to say what we think is fine or not.

I'm not making any assumptions. This is just a logical deduction. If you do not define God for the members, then "by reason alone" we can conclude that any God is acceptable.

He was a bad apple that was expelled once he showed the world what he was.

You say he was a bad apple. The question is why? Is it because of his actions? Or, is it only because he revealed things about the craft that he should not have, which exposed the craft to more public scrutiny than is acceptable for the effective continuation of the craft's secret activities?

a reply to: AMPTAH

Sigh. Ok, yes, the camaraderie, companionship and sense of belonging and contribution to the community - you're right, that isn't 'online' or Googleable.

I was more referring to the texts, rituals and otherwise 'secret' secrets that everyone already knows.

But as KSigMason also mentioned, just because its online, doesn't mean it brings value. You need the context. Again, that isn't secret. All the rituals are searchable and findable with full instructions on how to do them, but unless you do them *with* a group of like minded individuals within the context of the lodge, in my opinion, isn't the same.

Hence why I don't think there are any secret 'secrets' that if exposed, would cause either Freemasonry to fall or society in general.

I think *you* believe there are some hidden agendas for world domination or special esoteric, occult type secrets we know. And, that just isn't true. Would be neat if there were. But if they were -- they too would be online. And yet they are not.

originally posted by: SoulSurfer

originally posted by: GoatWizard



There was "antidiluvian" (hope I spelled that right) Masonry before Solomonic Masonry. You can see some remnants in the Third Degree (Third Section), and in a couple Scottish Rite Degrees.

I highlighted that word because it sounded familiar. But Aside from that, you mentioned the king james Bible in one of your posts. I read somewhere that Freemasonry had some codes that unlocked messages within the Bible. Is this true? If so Why?

The other question is, what does the King James Bible have to do with freemasonry? Why is it being used there?

Should I trust the King James knowing the freemasons use it? I am a Christian, following mostly the KJV and somewhat of the book of Enoch. And from what I can see, the God of the King James is not the same "god' of the Roman Catholic church (ISIS) and Islam (also ISIS.)


But if you can answer these questions it would mean alot.

The Bible is our Rule and guide of faith. We use the stories in it to relay lessons allegorically. It's the basis for all the lessons in Freemasonry and the main reason one must be a man of faith to become a Freemason.(IMHO)

What I have gotten out of our teachings is that God is the same being in all religions, just called by different names. In freemasonry we refer to him as the Great Architect of the Universe, so that brothers of other faiths can meet and not have to argue over which God is right or better. We aren't a religion, but the meetings and degrees do have a religious undertone. I hope that answered your question.

a reply to: GoatWizard

Explain what " the craft is " please


If you are a single mason what does the lodge say about one night stands and drinking

Is your mind "centered " at entered apprentice iniation or when raised a master mason , thanks

a reply to: UpLateWakingUp

Where does the 47th problem tie into everything

What happens when you are raised , is it the start of your selfhood ego great work or the finishing of it , thanks for your time

I would like to ask GoatWizard...

Though you stress the kind of ordinariness of The Masons,
from your own experience at least,
... what small or tiny percentage would you estimate of the current political establishment of both major parties are not members of the Freemasons?

It may not have been so relevant in your type of employment, I don't know, or your lodge may have been not much of the type...
... but were you ever much involved, yourself, in "helping up" other Masonic members in the big wide world, (whatever area of employment or endeavour).

Did you ever receive any such helping hands pulling you up, which you were aware of?

originally posted by: noonebutme
a reply to: AMPTAH

I was more referring to the texts, rituals and otherwise 'secret' secrets that everyone already knows.

But, those things are just the "general ideas" that Freemasonry employs. It's "the application" of those ideas that is the real secret of a Freemason Lodge.

But as KSigMason also mentioned, just because its online, doesn't mean it brings value. You need the context.

Right. Because the rituals are "encrypted" in symbols, that only take on meaning when you see "the application" in the real world.

Hence why I don't think there are any secret 'secrets' that if exposed, would cause either Freemasonry to fall or society in general.

That depends on the lodge, Anders Brevik deliberately "revealed" some very dark operations, so he had to be public-ally "expelled" to restore confidence in the craft. When he was tired of shooting the innocent folks, he called the police and told them "I'm tied of this, I won, come and get me." That means the Freemason Cops were just as culpable, for they knew him, and in his mind, obviously, these cops were his "brothers in the craft" who had to "protect him" by sworn oaths.

I think *you* believe there are some hidden agendas for world domination or special esoteric, occult type secrets we know. And, that just isn't true. Would be neat if there were. But if they were -- they too would be online. And yet they are not.

There are hidden agendas. There are occult type secrets. But, not every lodge, nor every mason knows about these things.

originally posted by: GoatWizard
I spent several years actively involved in Freemasonry, and after considerable time and reflection I decided to permanently leave the Fraternity in 2014.

During my years as a Mason I rarely visited sites like this. I have not been on ATS at all until very recently. I remember this site being a place where talk on the subject occurred regularly. I would like to answer any questions about the subject, engage in meaningful discussion; and possibly expound on what I speculate about the future of Freemasonry (at least in the Southern USA).

At any rate, I joined a fairly large, well established Lodge, some time ago in the Southern USA. I worked my way through the Officer's line and became Master of my Lodge. I worked the entirety of the York, and Scottish RItes, and was actively involved in Degree Teams until the year I became Worshipful Master. It was late in my tenure as Master that has began to have very serious thoughts about leaving permanently, and did in the summer of 2016. After a year of post-departure reflection. I am confident in my decision; and am resolved to begin sharing my experiences, making good where I can.

So... if there is anything pro, con, or whatever, I am happy to respond here.

There is no way that you can have move up to master of a lodge in just a "few" active years, let alone a worshipful master or anything else you claim. The timeline doesn't fit and you were purposefully vague about your timeline and location.

5 pages deep in an "AMA about Freemasons" and you haven't said one thing about freemasonry.

This thread should be outright deleted.

originally posted by: AMPTAH
Right. Because the rituals are "encrypted" in symbols, that only take on meaning when you see "the application" in the real world.

Hmm.. I don't think so. It's more metaphor and allegory which I think can be very subjective. You'll read into what you will as both participant and observer. Sometimes I see it as the journey from birth to death, other times as a way for me to deal with a particular event or situation in my life.

Again, none of that is secret or esoteric.

That depends on the lodge, Anders Brevik deliberately "revealed" some very dark operations, so he had to be public-ally "expelled" to restore confidence in the craft.

And all the child abuser priests are covering up what the Catholic church stands for -- sanctioned child abuse.

Is that a fair statement? Or is that a terrible generalisation made based on the events of a select few disgusting men?

When he was tired of shooting the innocent folks, he called the police and told them "I'm tied of this, I won, come and get me." That means the Freemason Cops were just as culpable, for they knew him, and in his mind, obviously, these cops were his "brothers in the craft" who had to "protect him" by sworn oaths.

Again, that's all assumption on your part. You 100% knew their minds? They 100% knew his and his intentions?

If people reported every one of *my* bad thoughts or verbal outbursts at *this* person or *that* person I'd be in prison. But I, like 99% of society, don't act on them. So you condemning the police for not acting on assumption, instead of fact.

There are hidden agendas. There are occult type secrets. But, not every lodge, nor every mason knows about these things.

Really? You know this for fact? Ok, name 3.

originally posted by: SRPrime

There is no way that you can have move up to master of a lodge in just a "few" active years, let alone a worshipful master or anything else you claim. The timeline doesn't fit and you were purposefully vague about your timeline and location.

Ah! And yet, that's exactly what the Norwegian Freemasons claim about Anders Brevik. Apparently, he attended just 3 meetings at lodge, and those were just to get his "degree", 1st, 2nd, 3rd. It was said, that he too, although a full "Master Mason", was supposedly not active in his lodge. Every mason contradicts every other mason. And this is only possible, if there is "no truth" there in masonry.