I left Freemasonry in 2016, and I am happy to discuss the subject.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Lol
Euclid's 47th problem...
It's surprising how many brothers now days don't recognize what this Mason symbol represents or its operative function.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
You sound like a bitter little man (?) who just cant seem to find his way in life and is all jelly of other people who may be better off, regardless of how they got there. Maybe your church can throw you a can or two of Alpo if you sit through a few insufferable sermons.

Hey, I'm just your average guy. No better off, nor worse off, than the average person. I am that I am. I need be no one else but me. I know where I came from, and I know where I'm going. I need no guiding light. I think you're pissed that I seem to know all about Freemasonry, and yet, I haven't claimed to be a Mason, and you clearly know nothing, and are pretending some relation to real Masons.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

It's hard work, but it looks nice when a project is complete. Especially when they use decorative brick.

You all get some pretty cool jewelry too. Do you all have private jeweler?

a reply to: AMPTAH

You may have done your Google research, may have read every Mackey and Pike book published, but until you've experienced the degree work and rituals first hand... you don't know all about Freemasonry. There is certain wisdom imparted through interaction not conveyed through written or spoken instruction.
A man begins his Masonic journey at heart long before he petitions a lodge.

I haven't a clue what your beef is with the oldest and most prestigious fraternity in existence but I'm fairly certain it's unfounded.

originally posted by: klikmaus
a reply to: AMPTAH

Masonic lodges not accepting a candidate strictly on financial grounds is erroneous. A man is judged by his internal character not his achievements in life when the ballot box is passed around.
However... all lodges have their own by-laws that govern that particular lodge. It's entirely possible for some lodges to have some form of "minimum income" requirement for admission. I doubt it but it could be possible. I am a Traveling Man but it would be next to impossible to visit every single chartered lodge in America to find out.

My own Masonic journey story validates this--- when I petitioned my lodge for the degrees my income was below poverty level. Even now I'm not much better off. And no.... visions of better jobs and better pay is NOT what drew me to Masonry, nor any other TRUE Brother I've met. It's fellowship, community organization, tradition, brotherhood, good food, and getting to wear a cool ring.

I almost forgot the BEST benefit of being a Mason... driving conspiracy theorists bat# crazy!

Oh, brother, they were nucking futs, long before any of this.

a reply to: SoulSurfer

SoulSurfer, certain parts of ritual quoted from the Bible directly. The Bible on the alter in my Lodge is a Masonic King James (a large King James made for alters). It is not a Catholic, Jerusalem, or any other. Ritual is intertwined with the Bible. It points to the Bible (often just called Scriptures, Holy Writ, etc). There would basically be no ritual without a base of Scripture.

You will also find some Shakespeare, like "from whose bourne no traveller returns (2nd degree working tools lecture/ Hamlet).

What does the Bible have to do with Freemasonry? Nothing
What does Freemasonry have to do with the Bible? One heck of a lot!

Recall the King James was "written" in 1600's.

originally posted by: UpLateWakingUp
a reply to: GoatWizard

Explain what " the craft is " please


If you are a single mason what does the lodge say about one night stands and drinking

Is your mind "centered " at entered apprentice iniation or when raised a master mason , thanks

The Craft is a Body of Masons.

There is no "the lodge" there are thousands. inquire from one what you want to know. I don't speak for any one of them anymore.

A person is hoodwinked in the first degree and will stay that way until he realizes it for himself. Centered mind? Surely not, not even for a single breath.

a reply to: GoatWizard

Goatwizard---

Good catch on the Hamlet monolog! None of my current lodge brothers knew about this connection when I brought it up, not even the Texas district 8 instructor.

Shakespeare's works are chock full of Masonic analogies and direct takes from Masonic ritual.

Network dude.... LMAO
My nickname since high school has been "Wingnut" so yeah, at least in my case being "nuking futs" is well founded

originally posted by: bw1000
I would like to ask GoatWizard...

Though you stress the kind of ordinariness of The Masons,
from your own experience at least,
... what small or tiny percentage would you estimate of the current political establishment of both major parties are not members of the Freemasons?

It may not have been so relevant in your type of employment, I don't know, or your lodge may have been not much of the type...
... but were you ever much involved, yourself, in "helping up" other Masonic members in the big wide world, (whatever area of employment or endeavour).

Did you ever receive any such helping hands pulling you up, which you were aware of?

It's networking basically. Unfair or unjust favoritism? Unfortunately sometimes that is the case.

World domination? Not hardly. I have known a few 33rds. It is just a Masonic Honor, that's all. Those clowns are not even running City Counsel!

originally posted by: klikmaus
until you've experienced the degree work and rituals first hand... you don't know all about Freemasonry. There is certain wisdom imparted through interaction not conveyed through written or spoken instruction.

Yes, but all of life works this way.

The Grand Architect of the Universe was clever enough to provide instruction through every interaction humans have with each other. We are learning all the time. From waking breath, to nightly sleep, from birth to death. All is instruction.

To separate out some men, and tell them that "these special rituals" will teach them more than they'll learn through God's own natural instruction seems to me a bit deceptive.

For if God thought that these things would add value to a man's life, he would have made is so for us all.

So, first, Freemasonry requires a man believe in the supreme being, then it informs him that the supreme being left out some part of his instruction, and to get that special light, he must seek it within the Lodge.

Doesn't that seem a bit of a paradox?

I can understand "atheists" claiming that special rituals in their Lodge would take a man further in life, for God can't do that, if HE doesn't exist.

But, to whom should we turn, if there is a God? Some other men?

a reply to: AMPTAH

In my humble experience and perspective, it seems that individuals who gain knowledge from instructions instead of action are posing as enlightened. I have looked through some documents of these societies harboring this secret information, and didn't learn a damn thing. In fact I feel very confident I could tell them much. The difference is real knowledge leads to the conclusion that to tell it is pointless anyway, because it can only be lived.

These truths cannot be learned or taught, they can only be lived in practice in my opinion. Knowledge that is intuited is so much more powerful than knowledge that is accepted. It is the difference between listening and hearing.

a reply to: AMPTAH

"To separate out some men, and tell them that "these special rituals" will teach them more than they'll learn through God's own natural instruction seems to me a bit deceptive."

That's almost understandable. However keep in mind the majority of Masonic ritual is deeply rooted in biblical testament.
Even in Church conflict arises between members of the congregation over individual religious and political ideologies. Masonry is a means to bring these together, overlook differences and work together making the world around us better while improving our own inner selves by following the lessons contained in the Sacred Book of Law.
This is why politics and religion are the only two topics specifically banned from being discussed in lodge.

originally posted by: norhoc
a reply to: GoatWizard


I think most people would be bummed to find out how boring and mundane freemasonry is. They want to believe in these grand conspiracies where masons are an all knowing secret society that has all the secrets of past and present at hand, when,in reality, it is just a bunch of guys hanging out.

Agreed. There is some favoritism in getting jobs, maybe some political stuff; but yea; very mundane stuff. The wackos have Masons barbecuing babies! none of that trash has any truth to it. There are a few notoriously bad people in all walks of life.

Most Masons I have met have basic goodness. Quite a few misguided; but basically good.

I'll say this again. I have no axes to grind with anyone. When I left Freemasonry, I knew it meant saying goodbye to some good people. That was actually the most difficult thing about my decision.

Thank you for your clarity.

originally posted by: SRPrime

originally posted by: GoatWizard
I spent several years actively involved in Freemasonry, and after considerable time and reflection I decided to permanently leave the Fraternity in 2014.

During my years as a Mason I rarely visited sites like this. I have not been on ATS at all until very recently. I remember this site being a place where talk on the subject occurred regularly. I would like to answer any questions about the subject, engage in meaningful discussion; and possibly expound on what I speculate about the future of Freemasonry (at least in the Southern USA).

At any rate, I joined a fairly large, well established Lodge, some time ago in the Southern USA. I worked my way through the Officer's line and became Master of my Lodge. I worked the entirety of the York, and Scottish RItes, and was actively involved in Degree Teams until the year I became Worshipful Master. It was late in my tenure as Master that has began to have very serious thoughts about leaving permanently, and did in the summer of 2016. After a year of post-departure reflection. I am confident in my decision; and am resolved to begin sharing my experiences, making good where I can.

So... if there is anything pro, con, or whatever, I am happy to respond here.

There is no way that you can have move up to master of a lodge in just a "few" active years, let alone a worshipful master or anything else you claim. The timeline doesn't fit and you were purposefully vague about your timeline and location.

5 pages deep in an "AMA about Freemasons" and you haven't said one thing about freemasonry.

This thread should be outright deleted.

I am purposefully vague, you are correct. I was a Mason for several years, and moved through the line like anyone. I started as a Steward, and moved through the chairs. I never mentioned when I joined the Fraternity, and I won't. Nobody here needs to know that. I only mentioned the years that are relevant to this thread.

originally posted by: sputniksteve
These truths cannot be learned or taught, they can only be lived in practice ..

No truths are learned from texts or taught in lectures.

Everything requires "prior exposure to experience."

When you read some text, or hear some lecture, all it does is "awaken" your "memory" , and it requires you have previous experience to grasp the concepts, because we all "understand" through "analogy".

So, some individuals may seem to learn from texts alone, or by just hearing the lecturer say something specific, but all it really means is that in some distant past experience, maybe a past incarnation, that person "now understanding" had contact with the necessary things to draw upon as analogy to compose his current understanding.

Since these ancient souls are always around, walking among us, it is never useless to write or say things that can "jog" their memories.

They need not have "new" exposure to experiences, once again, to recall their previous knowledge. So, there is still value in teaching what you know, the right ears will hear and understand the work.

a reply to: AMPTAH

I respectively disagree in practice, but I don't begrudge anyone trying.

I would also like to clarify that I believe sharing ideas is wonderful and should always be done regardless, it is proselytizing that brings with it too much risk for the reward. Any time that sharing is done in a large regular group with leaders and positions someone is proselytizing at some point. Even then it isn't like the risk is great, but the likely hood of the scales being balanced at the end is small.

I hope that makes sense and is concise.

a reply to: AMPTAH
I have found that Freemasonry has only strengthened my faith.

a reply to: AMPTAH
One can go to church and Lodge.

And you're trying to compare apples to oranges by comparing Lodge to church.

No eagle will be found diving under the water for weeds and fish.

FYI, the osprey dives into the water to get fish.

a reply to: AMPTAH
It's not for you to say who are "real Masons" and "pretenders."

People join masonry for one main reason, to get a better job.

Incorrect. The job I have I got from my time in the military which I joined before becoming a Mason.

Nothing spiritual aimed for, just plain old "help me" get ahead.

Incorrect again.

a reply to: stonerwilliam
I have.

a reply to: UpLateWakingUp
No worries.

a reply to: AMPTAH
Freemasonry doesn't discriminate on one's income. You have to be able to pay the initiation fees and annual dues, but we don't ask how much one makes in a given year.

You're again trying to compare apples to oranges.

So, we expect that most masons had "some job" before joining up. They just want a "better job."

That's not for you to say.

a reply to: AMPTAH
False.

a reply to: AMPTAH
But then he would have missed out on the experience.

a reply to: AMPTAH
And yet we initiated a guy who lost his leg in an accident. And my Lodge falls under the Grand Lodge AF&AM of Idaho and which is a recognized Grand Lodge.

When you become a true mason, you'll actually know all these things.

Well as you are not a Mason it is not for you to call some "true masons" and others "pretenders."

a reply to: AMPTAH
Actually he is a real Freemason. He belongs to a Lodge under the Grand Lodge F&AM of New Jersey which is the recognized Grand Lodge in that state.

You clearly are talking out of your fourth point of contact.

originally posted by: AMPTAH
Look. All you are saying, is that you are not a real Freemason.

Says the non-Mason. The irony is supremely delicious.

Your lodge may use the term "Freemason", but if you're not following the Landmarks of Freemasonry, you guys are really just a club or fraternity of men who like to gather together on Weekends for barbecue.

See, if you were an actually Mason and not some character on the internet pretending he knows things you would be aware that there is something called 'dispensation' which the Grand Master or District Deputy Grand Master can grant to a lodge for specific purposes, among those is what I listed above. Educate yourself before you flap your gob.

Why do you feel the need to call yourselves "Freemasons" ?

That's the only thing that is puzzling here.

Mostly to annoy religious nuts who think we should go to church and listen to sermons.

originally posted by: klikmaus
Lol
Euclid's 47th problem...
It's surprising how many brothers now days don't recognize what this Mason symbol represents or its operative function.

Oh, I'm sure a certain someone in this thread would be willing to tell you what it 'really' means, just as soon as he gets his instructions from church, that bastion of free-thinking.