I left Freemasonry in 2016, and I am happy to discuss the subject.

a reply to: AMPTAH

Masonic lodges not accepting a candidate strictly on financial grounds is erroneous. A man is judged by his internal character not his achievements in life when the ballot box is passed around.
However... all lodges have their own by-laws that govern that particular lodge. It's entirely possible for some lodges to have some form of "minimum income" requirement for admission. I doubt it but it could be possible. I am a Traveling Man but it would be next to impossible to visit every single chartered lodge in America to find out.

My own Masonic journey story validates this--- when I petitioned my lodge for the degrees my income was below poverty level. Even now I'm not much better off. And no.... visions of better jobs and better pay is NOT what drew me to Masonry, nor any other TRUE Brother I've met. It's fellowship, community organization, tradition, brotherhood, good food, and getting to wear a cool ring.

I almost forgot the BEST benefit of being a Mason... driving conspiracy theorists bat# crazy!

originally posted by: klikmaus
and getting to wear a cool ring.

You could have just bought that ring in a store, save yourself all the trouble.

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: AMPTAH

Again, you're talking nonesense.

My stepdad was diagnosed with prostate cancer before he thought of joining. Our friend in the wheelchair was BORN disabled and has never been able to walk.

How about this? Show me where it says ill or disabled people can't join.

A True Freemason "knows"..since it is one of the Landmarks of the craft.
For example, here is the masonic law,

The 18th Landmark of Freemasonry
CERTAIN QUALIFICATIONS OF CANDIDATES FOR INITIATION
are derived from a Landmark of the Order. These qualifications are that he shall be a man--shall be unmutilated, free born, and of mature age. That is to say, a woman, a cripple, or a slave, or one born in slavery, is disqualified for initiation into the rites of Masonry. Statutes, it is true, have from time to time been enacted, enforcing or explaining these principles; but the qualifications really arise from the very nature of the Masonic institution, and from its symbolic teachings, and have always existed as Landmarks.
pp.31-32

Source: "A Text Book of MASONIC JURISPPRUDENCE; Illustrating the Written and Unwritten Laws of FREEMASONRY." -- By Albery G. Mackey, M.D.,
READ IT YOURSELF HERE !

So, you need look no further than into the very "Landmarks" of Freemasonry to know.

If any lodge does not follow the Landmarks of Freemasonry, then it is not a Freemasonic Lodge.

Note that the Landmark says the "candidate for initiation" must not be a cripple. Once initiated, he could become a cripple just fine.

So, no doubt Freemasons who are cripples exist. But, you can't enter the Lodge that way. If they let you in, that's not a Freemason Lodge. It's something else.

Proof requested. And Proof delivered. Q.E.D.

When you become a true mason, you'll actually know all these things.

a reply to: AMPTAH

Yeah, because things haven't changed in the last 150 years. Even the authors profession has changed DRAMATICALLY since his death.

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: AMPTAH

Yeah, because things haven't changed in the last 150 years. Even the authors profession has changed DRAMATICALLY since his death.

The beauty of freemasonry is that stability. That's how it connects to the Masonic Fraternity of the past, by keeping the Landmarks that are tradition. Masons do love to claim that connection to "Antient" things. If you modernize the rules, you create a new order with different rules, that's all.

I have heard that there are false Freemason Organizations, that charge dues and have members perform meaningless rituals, thinking they are following the Antient traditions, and receiving some kind of "light", when in fact, it's all fake.

I'm beginning to wonder if this is true. I know there are fake doctors, and fake dentists, and fake lawyers, that often get caught out, people even have fake Diplomas and fake degrees when applying for jobs. But, I would have thought that Freemasonry was somehow above this, through some kind of checks and balances. But, who checks to see if any particular Lodge is "legit" and following the Landmarks of masonry?

a reply to: AMPTAH

So freemasonry isn't allowed to be updated?

Don't worry. You can have the last reply. It's obvious there's no point in replying to you.

a reply to: AMPTAH

Yes and no.

While there's no penalty against the profane wearing a Masonic ring, there is an honor in knowing the right to represent the fraternity and wear it's symbol has been earned. A ring in and of its self is a symbol, everything about Freemasonry is tied into its symbolism. A non-Mason wearing a Masonic ring is no different than a civilian presenting them self as a soldier.

Stolen valor/honor is not something I would want to be accused of, completely against my values.
It is having such morals and values which recommend a man to be made a Mason

a reply to: AMPTAH

Who checks to see if a lodge is "legit"?

Any brother visiting a lodge new to him for the first time is "highly encouraged" to verify they have a genuine warrant or charter allowing that lodge to labor. This document will be prominently displayed somewhere within the lodge room. If the document appears suspicious it is very easy to check with the Grand Lodge to verify the authenticity of the lodge.

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: AMPTAH

So freemasonry isn't allowed to be updated?

Don't worry. You can have the last reply. It's obvious there's no point in replying to you.

Somehow, you seem to imply that these are my personal rules. Lest you confuse anyone reading these posts,

Here is what Freemasonry itself says about changing the rules,

The 25th Landmark
The last and crowning Landmark of all is, that THESE LANDMARKS CAN NEVER BE CHANGED. Nothing can be subtracted from them--nothin can be added to them--not the slightest modification can be made in them. As they were received from our predeccessors, we are bound by the most solemn obligations of duty to transmit them to our successors. Not one jot or one title of these unwritten laws can be repealed; for in respect to them, we are not only willing, but compelled to adopt the language of the sturdy old barons of England--"Nolumus leges murari." pp.38-39

Source: "A Text Book of MASONIC JURISPPRUDENCE;
Illustrating the Written and Unwritten Laws of
FREEMASONRY." -- By Albery G. Mackey, M.D.,

Now, of course, there are many rules in Freemasonry that can be changed. All the written Laws etc...but the LANDMARKS cannot be changed.

That is the official position of the true Freemasonry.

Once you start to change the Landmarks, you can "invent" anything.

But, then, you no longer have Freemasonry. Just something else.

Maybe the new Fraternity will be better.

For example, women can be initiated in some lodges. But, those are not Freemason lodges. They are something "new."

Nothing wrong with "new" orders.

It's just not Freemasonry.

originally posted by: klikmaus

Stolen valor/honor is not something I would want to be accused of, completely against my values.
It is having such morals and values which recommend a man to be made a Mason

Maybe. But, I have heard of non-masons putting masonic symbols prominently displayed on their cars, like the compass and the square, so that the "cops" would not "pull them over", and it seems to work for them.

So, there is value in supporting Freemasonry, by buying their symbols and regalia and displaying them to others.

Where did OP go? He just answerd a few questions then left eh ?

originally posted by: AMPTAH
Well, first of all, the masons don't accept the poor.

Is that so? Our dues are $95 a year, not like you need to be loaded to join.

You have to have something already to get more in the world of Freemasonry.

And what did I get? Not like I needed a job or money like you claim.

Freemasons have all sorts of criteria, like you've got to be healthy, must be male, must be able at least to pay your dues, must believe in a supreme being, etc...

Oh my God!!!! That's terrible!!!! The horror!!!!

...while the sick, a cripple, the poor, and even an atheist is welcome to come to Church and listen to a sermon. The Lord turns away no man, woman, nor child.

We help all of these people without making them suffer through some boring and pointless sermon so in a way we are much better than your pretentious church that is looking for a quid pro quo.

So, we expect that most masons had "some job" before joining up. They just want a "better job."

Well, considering my current boss is a woman and I'm guessing not a Mason how's that crap theory working out for you?

You sound like a bitter little man (?) who just cant seem to find his way in life and is all jelly of other people who may be better off, regardless of how they got there. Maybe your church can throw you a can or two of Alpo if you sit through a few insufferable sermons.

originally posted by: AMPTAH
Note that the Landmark says the "candidate for initiation" must not be a cripple. Once initiated, he could become a cripple just fine.

What do you consider a 'cripple'? Someone who has muscular dystrophy and had to take his degrees seated since he couldn't walk around the lodge? Or maybe someone who lost his legs in Afghanistan and uses a wheel chair?

Both of these guys got in my lodge the way they were and didn't come down with MS or two missing legs after they joined. If you came to my lodge in New Jersey you could meet them in person but I doubt you have the testicular fortitude to attempt this.

This thread has taught me alot about masons ... I guess they are just average joes 🤷🏻‍♀️

Haven't had alot of exposure to masons , though I did meet one once and asked why he joined.
He said it was mostly for business connections , and getting to know community members in different trades and professions.

Some people join churches for the same reasons .

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: AMPTAH
Note that the Landmark says the "candidate for initiation" must not be a cripple. Once initiated, he could become a cripple just fine.

What do you consider a 'cripple'? Someone who has muscular dystrophy and had to take his degrees seated since he couldn't walk around the lodge? Or maybe someone who lost his legs in Afghanistan and uses a wheel chair?

Both of these guys got in my lodge the way they were and didn't come down with MS or two missing legs after they joined. If you came to my lodge in New Jersey you could meet them in person but I doubt you have the testicular fortitude to attempt this.

I know several local lodge members and I would quickly join their ranks if I were not lacking one very important trait.

They are good men, honorable men that have done much good in the local communities that go unnoticed.

If you add a conspiratorial mindset to that, their deeds not only go unnoticed, but they are demonized as well.

Even though I cannot join the lodge, I have been asked to help coordinate and participate in a motorcycle ride/fundraiser alongside the local masons. You don't have to be a mason to help their causes.

For whatever it's worth.

originally posted by: introvert
...I would quickly join their ranks if I were not lacking one very important trait.

Oh, oh, I know, you don't love Baphomet as much as we do.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: introvert
...I would quickly join their ranks if I were not lacking one very important trait.

Oh, oh, I know, you don't love Baphomet as much as we do.

I don't love any Supreme being, as is required.

Though, I do love a nicely-salted piece of baby flesh.

Was hoping that was enough to get in, but alas...I was wrong.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Or maybe it's the doughnuts.

Do you all discuss masonry tricks, like the best brand of mortar, or maybe taken aghast at how they have machines that can lay bricks now?

Certainly no use for nails in masonry.

originally posted by: gpols
Do you all discuss masonry tricks, like the best brand of mortar, or maybe taken aghast at how they have machines that can lay bricks now?

Someone actually gave a presentation on how to lay out lines, circles and angles without anything more than a rod, a weight and some string. Very cool since it was how Operative Masons would have had to done it before modern tools.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

Both of these guys got in my lodge the way they were and didn't come down with MS or two missing legs after they joined. If you came to my lodge in New Jersey you could meet them in person but I doubt you have the testicular fortitude to attempt this.

Look. All you are saying, is that you are not a real Freemason.

Your lodge may use the term "Freemason", but if you're not following the Landmarks of Freemasonry, you guys are really just a club or fraternity of men who like to gather together on Weekends for barbecue.

Why do you feel the need to call yourselves "Freemasons" ?

That's the only thing that is puzzling here.