France and Germany to develop new European fighter jet

a reply to: Forensick

Other than the Reaper/Predator style strike platform, armed UAVs are currently just not overly feasible. They need to be nearly autonomous, and would have to be large if they want to carry internal weapons, which they'd need to do if they want to be stealthy and get to a target, other than in a permissive environment.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Forensick

Other than the Reaper/Predator style strike platform, armed UAVs are currently just not overly feasible. They need to be nearly autonomous, and would have to be large if they want to carry internal weapons, which they'd need to do if they want to be stealthy and get to a target, other than in a permissive environment.

I agree I think what you may see in the near term is some sort of drone / bomb truck that has some sort of boosted AAM that can loiter 200+ miles back and be directed by stealthy front line aircraft.

The previously looked at Patriots being air launched, you could also do the same with a Standard or THAAD as well

originally posted by: Forensick

but only the UK has demonstrated autonomy to the extent shown in the Taranis programme.

Cough - maybe not all of it is the UKs autonomy ;-)

Actually, yes it was. Developed by QinetiQ (formerly the RAE and A&AEE) the first aircraft to demonstrate control autonomy in flight was the company's BAC One Eleven testbed, they then progressed to the first take off to landing autonomous profile which was flown using a Tornado. This was the bedrock of Taranis autonomous capability, and it will be a crying shame if end up just handing it all over to the French. But we gave America our STOVL technology so why not? :-)

They would have been better off with working with NG with its X47b...

originally posted by: waynos

originally posted by: Forensick

but only the UK has demonstrated autonomy to the extent shown in the Taranis programme.

Cough - maybe not all of it is the UKs autonomy ;-)

Actually, yes it was. Developed by QinetiQ (formerly the RAE and A&AEE) the first aircraft to demonstrate control autonomy in flight was the company's BAC One Eleven testbed, they then progressed to the first take off to landing autonomous profile which was flown using a Tornado. This was the bedrock of Taranis autonomous capability, and it will be a crying shame if end up just handing it all over to the French. But we gave America our STOVL technology so why not? :-)

Funny how there was an Aussie or two there at the unveiling ceremony, I'm not saying it was the bedrock and I'm not saying anything else.

originally posted by: Forensick
Funny how there was an Aussie or two there at the unveiling ceremony,

Why was it funny? Taranis and other UK systems are tested down in Australia. BAE has a strong Australian arm.

Woomera and maybe Pine Gap..

a reply to: Forensick

Not really, when you consider Woomera and BAE's Australian activities. BAE is very multinational these days.

a reply to: Forensick

Ultimately everything BAE does is commercial nowadays, Taranis was a demonstrator....but you only demonstrate stuff if you want to sell it....either internally or to allies.

What Waynos said about BAE being multinational....yeah I totally agree. As I've said a few times now, BAE is the third largest defence contractor in the world. The last 20 years has seen a program of acquisition that has included many U.S based companies. The fact is...there just isn't much profit in building entire aircraft...especially now that every man and his dog can build a half decent stealth platform. In contrast, the systems that run those aircraft and give them their capability (Electronic Warfare, Intelligence, Command, Control, Cyber etc)....now there's the stuff that is specialist, high value from both a commercial and defence advantage.

The black stuff that's going on around Nashua is mind blowing.

The French and Germans are not above using this type of rhetoric to push their political agenda, however they can swing their E.U regulated Saucissons and Frankfurters around as much as they like, nothing will come of it.

Cheers
Robbie

a reply to: paraphi

The UK needs its own native birds. Even depending on the US is not wise. I would always want most of a weapon to be produced at home.

I would buy technology from the F22 program, and incorporate it into a non fully stealth, cheap airframe with all the US bells and whistles as far as the "guts" of the plane.

Maybe work with Japan to make a new air frame...with F22 parts. They do make their own version.

I would copy the SU-35 airframe, and fill it with everything that makes an F-22 minus the air frame.

Take all the saved RD money, and buy more birds.

Sell it back to the US and co. to cover the costs of tech procurement.

Pull a China on everyone.

Takes a lot of work to do that...CAC Sabres and French Mirages in use by the RAAF both had different engines than originally designed for...

a reply to: tadaman

We haven't had 'our own birds' for decades, since the Harrier. The point is we don't need to buy tech from anywhere....we could build it all here. But it's not as simple as that...the reason we buy and build aircraft from and with other countries is strategic political alliance, not reliance on technology or capability.

China ...In 15 years the world will view China very differently, in fact I'd say we'll be considering buying major weapons systems from them within 20 years. Their technology is incredible, their quality is world class and their resource is endless. I was in China last month, we received a briefing from the British foreign office information protection office, in the next few years China will for the first time file more legal actions against other countries/companies for patent infringement than other countries/companies file against them.

Cheers
Robbie

France and Germany wouldn't be able to develop a comfortable chair, since all production and design capabilities have been shipped to the far east in the 90s

a reply to: Flanker86

Which is why they're currently flying aircraft designed and built in Asia.

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: Forensick
Funny how there was an Aussie or two there at the unveiling ceremony,

Why was it funny? Taranis and other UK systems are tested down in Australia. BAE has a strong Australian arm.

Because they werent there due to a massive expanse of desert, they actually played a very critical role in it (Taranis) which means that unless Australia can lay claim to any technology developed by BAES Australia, Taranis is not 100% UK indigenous.

a reply to: stratsys-sws

You are aware that BAE Systems America can not just send technology to BAE Systems and BAE Systems Australia.

Just because its one company doesnt get around the fact that National Secrets are just that and technology transfer and in particular with America, ITAR, the rules are rules.

I am not meaning to be patronizing by the way, I worked on F-35 in the UK for BAE writing contracts which contained specifications on the paint (it wasnt RAM afaik and was like reading dutch) and a few years later working in Australia for BAE Systems Australia I could not get access to those Specifications for a part we were offering.

Australia did not have the security clearance.

Australia was a partner with NASA with its Hifire program.Remember we were leading the Hypersonics worldwide before China.

a reply to: Forensick

Hi Forensick,

Don't worry...not patronising at all it's difficult to know everyone's experience. Yep..definitely aware, I've spent most of my career working in and around ITAR and export controlled information. In fact one of our software products is specifically designed to enforce ITAR, Export and Security controlled data. I take it you were at Salmesbury? I was up there last week, I adore the F-35.

Over at Warton tomorrow, then Broughton with Raytheon... it'll be bloomin freezing!

Cheers
Robbie

originally posted by: stratsys-sws
a reply to: Forensick

Hi Forensick,

Don't worry...not patronising at all it's difficult to know everyone's experience. Yep..definitely aware, I've spent most of my career working in and around ITAR and export controlled information. In fact one of our software products is specifically designed to enforce ITAR, Export and Security controlled data. I take it you were at Salmesbury? I was up there last week, I adore the F-35.

Over at Warton tomorrow, then Broughton with Raytheon... it'll be bloomin freezing!

Cheers
Robbie

Warton mainly for 10 years with a number of secondments to Samlesbury and one to Linkoping on The Gippen, that was cold! Then Williamtown and Edinburgh Parks in Aus. Surface ships currently with the future looking like subsurface depending on the Auusie Gubment!

So, will France and Germany with their 20 planes bomb the whole of Africa? Would they even remotely win a conflict under favorable circumstances against an opponent that is technologically 60 years behind ?

I don't think so. The EU and the west have very well demonstrated how to lose wars while having military superiority.