The Vertical Plane by Ken Webster - Is this proof of Time manipulation and travel or just a story?

a reply to: CromCruachh

I have had the same thoughts concerning Debbie and her dreams. I don't have any real reason to think it but I wonder if there is some deeper connection between Deb and Thomas, like they are somehow aspects of the same consciousness or something.

a reply to: sputniksteve

Good morning sputniksteve Thanks for your efforts with Gary. I'm so happy to finally have a full copy to read myself. Idk if it would be possible without you :hugs:

Cheers Steve, fascinating read

a reply to: dffrntkndfnml

I dont know that I deserve any thanks, but I will certainly take all the hugs I can get! Very happy you guys are all getting the opportunity to read now.

Maxey- Thanks!

a reply to: CromCruachh

Nah, the paperback on Amazon in the US is $284.52. I think that's actually come down a bit though.

Hi Sputniksteve, I've only recently come across your fantastic thread and I just wanted to congratulate and thank you and the other participants for the immense amount of time and energy that you have devoted to this topic.

Your endeavours have truly been astonishing.

I have garnered much from your work of sharing of and delving into this very controversial topic due to my own personal foray into the world of early ITC experiments and the associated pioneers of this work and also of the later work of the Scole and Norfolk Experiments.

I noticed several pages back that you mentioned Scole yourself and wondered if you did indeed explore this area?

I personally see many similarities between alleged ITC contacts and the content published within the Vertical Plane. Moreover, regarding some of the claims that a handler/ gatekeeper of sorts who always oversees discussion during cross communications and the alleged explanation that we live in different parallels, of which only the soul may travel and under certain circumstances.

I also refer to 2109s statements that our knowledge of who and what we are is at present is vastly limited in our time. That being a statement echoed in several alleged ITC communicaes.

It is indeed a fascinating topic of study which may or may not be credible because all we have, is the testimony of others, which is always open to scrutiny, debate and hoaxing.

With that in mind, I hope to commence my own experiments in the area of ITC myself and for my own confirmation or denial of the subject matter on a personal level.

There is so much that we do not know at this moment in time, regarding consciousness and reality, but with great recent strides in the world of Quantum Physics, perhaps we will attain this knowledge when we as a species are considered ready to handle it responsibly.
With the recent detection of a possible fourth dimension, perhaps mankind has already taken that first step forward.

Peace be with you Sir and thank you once again for an excellent thread.

Marc

a reply to: wtbengineer

I'm getting seriously pissed off with Amazon! I tried creating an account with both Amazon UK and AU and no dice! The UK site apparently only has the paperback version of TVP and I got a message that it could not be shipped to me in the US. The Australian site says that the Kindle version is not available.

originally posted by: wtbengineer
a reply to: wtbengineer

I'm getting seriously pissed off with Amazon! I tried creating an account with both Amazon UK and AU and no dice! The UK site apparently only has the paperback version of TVP and I got a message that it could not be shipped to me in the US. The Australian site says that the Kindle version is not available.

I have just purchased the latest version of the book for you and wonder if I can download it to my Fire tablet and save the file physically which could be transferred to another device of yours.

a reply to: studio500

I don't know, I know it's possible to "lend" kindle books but I don't remember how to go about it. Oh, thanks by the way! Whether or not we can figure out how to do it I really appreciate it!

originally posted by: wtbengineer
a reply to: studio500

I don't know, I know it's possible to "lend" kindle books but I don't remember how to go about it. Oh, thanks by the way! Whether or not we can figure out how to do it I really appreciate it!

I've sent you a pm

a reply to: sputniksteve

I know what you mean. My view is that every human's consciousness comes from the same source, like some great energy field. When we are born we receive a fraction of that consciousness/soul energy from god/vishnu/or wherever and it becomes isolated as our own, until we die, and then it goes back.
But for some reason some people like Deb can "move" around. Into other peoples consciousness and other into times and dimensions. I think this isn't from some munroe institute type training or anything, I think it's something genetic, some odd psychic trait which only 10-15% of the population has. Debbie definitely was one, and I think Thomas probably was too.
When I read of Debbie's dream where it flashed white at the start and then at the end I knew she had it. I guess only people who have experienced this white light thing will understand.

Before I read TVP I was most interested in 2109. But now I'm beginning to think 2109 are just attention seekers/Loki type critters who like fking with people. I'll post Thomas's quote about what "One" told him about 2109;

You asked of "one" from 2109. He said many nonsensical things to me and was boasting of his power somewhat but before I could offer him a seat he had already gone. He said that he will write my book and we were not to speak to 2109 for they are taunters that only want to force their thoughts on to us. But I can't square with talk from a man that looks green and is a time voyager. What do you think? I am confused and ask you why you speak with these persons because there is no need. Please speak only with your fellow, poor wretched Tomas, and not with these gabbering 2109 in case you may be taken to be insane. ~Tomas.

So yeah, maybe 2109 are full of bs and "one" is the real one in control.
I'm still only up to chapter 34 though. I know i know, iv'e been busy, otherwise I would have read it in one sitting lol.

a reply to: studio500

Hey I'm interested in researching other ITC events.
Would you be able to post a list of ITC occurrences that have happened in the past? Just interested for my own research that's all.

originally posted by: CromCruachh
a reply to: studio500

Hey I'm interested in researching other ITC events.
Would you be able to post a list of ITC occurrences that have happened in the past? Just interested for my own research that's all.

Hi, I'd like to but I'm up to my head in my year end accounts at the minute but I hop to write a post in a few days.

In the meantime, there are a few excellent docs on youtube but also take a look at this website by Mark Macy, there's tons of information on the site, much of which is pretty mindblowing if true.

Mark Macy

a reply to: CromCruachh

Your guess is as good as mine as far as Deb and Thomas, maybe better. There are so many things it could be, I just have no idea.

The One and 2109 situation is quite weird. I have also thought often that One may be the entity in charge of things, but like Thomas I am not sure if I trust a green time traveling computer salesman any more than a Time Cop.

I had an epiphany about One in the last month but now Don't remember what it was. Ill see if I can get it to come back today. One and 2109 definitely are at odds though and have some animosity between each other. All though for us I dont know if either is really more sinister than the other. I wonder what could make One glow green? He came off as a bit egomaniacle to me for some reason, and while 2109 was often a bit aggressive they seemed to usually be pretty helpful and hopeful.

My really off the wall theory is that they are all Aliens of different origins. One may be a typical Grey type being or something similar and 2109 are some other light being type entity and they are at odds over the fate of the human race. I don't follow this idea on a regular basis but entertain it every once in a while to see if anything turns up.

I do think a lot about the names they chose for themselves though. 1 and 2109. So similar and unfamiliar to us, both then and now in terms of naming conventions. I could speculate for hours about why they chose those names but I have nothing to base any of my speculation on besides pure guessing. With the exception of one thing, we remember that Gary is into numbers in a big way, which he explained in his forum post at that other site. I personally don't believe that is a coincidence. A person with more information may wonder if this entire experiment was all for his benefit considering they slyly asked for him by name and even provided his phone number. Think about this and the other things that concern Mr. Rowe and start to notice some things.

Curious things if you ask me. I may have a bit more information than the average reader but I certainly dont have more answers, and can be just as frustrated as anyone else reading along. I have been assured that a book was written and will be found, but no details or specifics.

Crazy times we live in. A 30 year old obscure time travel book suddenly comes back into popularity and has a new printing done as well as digitized. Hollywood types making movies. Ken should be about 50 years old now, so we should only have to wait another 30-50 years at most to see the book found and have a conclusion! Lol.

Then again just because TVP benefits humanity in Ken and Devs lifetime doesn't necessarily mean the book is found in that time, nor that it is a private individual that finds it, nor that it is shared with the public. For that matter maybe it has already been found but is being sat on for some reason. Who knows?

Sure wish we could decipher that opening and closing poem. Have a good day guys.

a reply to: studio500

Thanks for that link I will dig through it tonight. Its funny that you made the connection to the "spirit world" I have been hesitant to broach the subject in this thread because somehow regular Aliens and Time travelers seem less crazy and more plausible. I would continue in that same direction if I was you.

If anyone participating still hasn't read Magus of Java or Nei Kung yet I highly suggest you do. It can be found online for free in PDF or even dictated on YouTube so you can listen at work or what ever. It is highly relevant I assure you. They are both very interesting and thought provoking.

Y'all hopefully pick up what I am throwing down here.

a reply to: sputniksteve

Aliens is possible, but I lean towards the inter dimensional hypothesis. I think one and 2109 are from another reality parallel to ours, or they are in ours but are life forms/intelligent energy high up in the electromagnetic spectrum-right beyond our perception.(life without sound or colour.)
But opinions and theories is all it is, right?

I finished TVP but what I found annoying is ken talked about Gary's views on esotericism, but then didn't mention what they were!. Is this some secret or something? I'm really interested in hearing those views of his, since 2109 asked for him directly and said his more advanced for his time, (or something along those lines)

I wonder if Tomas' book was found, would it be enough to actually convince the skeptics? I reckon it wouldn't get any more publicity than TVP is getting now. Some skeptics would "debunk" it as fake or fiction or something, and then everyone would take the easy route and instead of changing their views on time and space they'd just ignore it.

Oh, you know how One glows green? That just reminded me of the Children of Woolprit. That little boy and girl who were found in a farm or something in the middle ages and they spoke a funny language and had green skin. hmm, I reckon it would be a good idea to look through all the paranormal accounts and see if there's any green glowing humanoids, maybe "one" or his cousins turned up at a different time, too?

So anyway, Steve, can you share anything about Gary's views on Esotericism and TVP? He was a ufologist before, right? What was his opinion on them? He seems really interesting but there's fk all information about him online and you seem pretty tight lipped about it lol.

a reply to: CromCruachh

Great post Crauchh. I know for sure I saw or read something about green people recently which lead me to consider One as soon as I heard it, I just don't remember where. I think it might have been while watching Unsolved Mysteries on Amazon but it could have been something else. I'm still trying to recall.

I don't believe Mr. Rowe has ever visited our thread nor seen this discussion but that doesnt mean that he won't know if I betray my promises. There is certainly no harm in discussing anything that is public knowledge or speculating on certain topics however.

I can tell you he has participated in things that are pretty mind blowing, and has the respect of very credentialed and accomplished people. It has been my pleasure and knowledge to be in the position I am in. He has helped me in my life in ways I never imagined possible. Our conversations are not idle banter but pretty narrow in scope and objective so I still have almost as many questions as you do. Mr. Rowe is a pretty serious man and doesn't entertain nonsense or fantasy. I have been wrong about most of the ideas I spent time researching prior to meeting him but I was right about some of them. I am a small and insignificant piece to an infinitely large puzzle though, and I haven't even seen enough of it yet to tell you what shape it is let alone what it looks like.

What I have learned is that our time and experience in these meat mobiles is to be cherished and given the respect it deserves. We should take all the nonsense a lot less seriously, and double down on the things we thought were simple and irrelevant. A kind deed and a smile should be a constant goal for daily life. Making the experience of those around us a positive rather than a negative in every effort we can expend. Life is too precious and fleeting to dwell in misery or inflict it on those around us. These may sound like tired platitudes, but sometimes there is a reason things are said over and over again the same way. These are lessons that humanity has been given and ignored far too often for far too long. That doesnt mean we are supposed to achieve perfection in our daily lives, but we should try to remember to strive for it constantly and learn from our mistakes when we miss our target. We often just settle for being good people, which is about the best we can hope for.

As far as finding Thomas's book, you are right that it isn't necessarily a slam dunk piece of evidence. For people that have already made up their mind and refuse to reconsider it will not mean much. They will claim hoax or that someone fabricated it most likely. For people seeking answers it will probably be what they are looking for, although it will probably generate more questions than answers. I think it heavily depends on who finds it and the circumstances surrounding the discovery. I reckon there will be another group of people whom we will never know about though that will make great use of the discovery and use it to fuel all sorts of research and investigation, which we again will probably never know about. There are serious people that take all of this very serious, but they aren't the type to talk on forums about it, and probably don't really "exist" as public citizens. I don't mean that in a cryptic UFO way, but rather an intelligence and black project type of way. Remember that one member of the paranormal investigation group in TVP were not who they claimed to be, and 2109 suggested they were from an intelligence agency. I haven't had any experience with these types personally but I have it from a trusted source that they are still very much involved, wether actively or passively I don't know. I understand that some people involved with TVP are still being checked on and possibly monitored full time. That could possibly be why they're all so quite online, but that is just speculation.

Ill tell you again though, that if I was you I would read Magus of Java and Nei Kung next. It could help you understand some things you want to understand. Besides all that, they are very interesting books.

I am very happy that this discussion is continuing and hope it is revitalized now thst more people have access to TVP. I spent quite a while not thinking about it at all, which was necessary and good for me but I am ready and capable of resuming.

a reply to: sputniksteve

Hey man, I am about half way through TVP and very much into it. I wasn't able to finish Chronicles of the Future but TVP is different. It rings of truth, it reads like an actual account. I don't take it at face value, that is, I don't think they were talking with people from the sixteenth century, but I believe that the events in the book happened. I also am astonished to find that the poltergeist phenomena was such a huge part of the whole story. I think this is downplayed when it should be more of a focus for anyone that wants to get to the bottom of it.

I completed the book in just over 2 days which is pretty astonishing for me as I tend to prefer reading and discovering from the internet as opposed to good old fashion paper and print.

I must admit, I became thoroughly immersed in the depiction and rather like a backseat driver, I found myself wishing that I had been present to ask more relevant and pertinent questions given the gravity and uniqueness of the situation.

Do I believe the book to be true? I rather hope it was, but just like so many other alleged events of strangeness that are purported to have occured in this world today, I would say yes, if I were to have a) witnessed the events myself or, b) Obtained unequivocal proof following scientific study and scrutiny.

As neither of the above occured, I choose to stay open minded with the hope of pursuing my own lines of enquiry in the near future.

It was the minor detail in the book that peaked my interest, numerical references punctuated with the odd decimal amongst other minor oddities that I hope to pursue further.

Examples:

CHAN.[452.95]
213,978,8

(2109) MEASURE FREQUENCY BY+2 ENERGY WHAT ELES OTHER THAN SOUND AND LIGHT?!

I was interested also to see references to TVP and ITC and in particular the link to contacts in Luxemburg where many Instrumental Transcommunication projects have occured.

Oddly, prior to even reading this thread, I had started my venture into the world of ITC after many hours of research in this field. I began to construct my own ideas for what devices I could use and modify if I were to undertake my own search for voices from both the future and the past.

I say oddly, because I had stumbled across this thread by pure accident, yet the content appeared almost targeted toward me, rather like a reader of the book who wonders if they themself my be the one to find the hidden book or to unlock the secrets of the riddles provided by 2109.

I do believe that that the cryptic opening and closing riddle containing the Pussycat poem to be a major clue that needs to be deciphered.

Perhaps it may hold the key to finding the Lukas papers.

It may well be a work of fiction but equally it my be, A TREW CALLE FORR MOSTE NOBLE SIRR.

MEE BIDDS GOOD DAYE

a reply to: sputniksteve

Thanks i'll add those books to my list. I have so many books to get through right now lol. I still haven't read that Beyond Bio centrism you recommended earlier. But I'll get around to it!
I really don't care about proving things to skeptics and the like. I want Thomas' book to be found because I want to know how the events unfolded through his point of view, not because I want to prove the events happened to anyone. Most mainstream scientists believe the UFO phenomenon isnt real; so they are either ignorant as fck or just lieing. Either way I don't care about their opinions on these matters.

In your copy of the vertical plane, there is a postscript at the back, right? In mine 2109 mentions a "green mist" when talking about the cenvectional magnetism lines and that. 2109 could be full of bs, but that could explain why "one" appeared green. Anyway I just got this book about paranormal encounters and the author mentioned beings usually have a green glow when they are seen, i'll finish reading it and post here if theres anything noteworthy, i've only just started reading it.

As far as government agents investigating these sorts of things, yeah i believe that. Because these sorts of things are REAL. i KNOW that much.

Hey I have a question to ask. This text from 2109;

The theories of quantum physics in your time do not anywhere near corresponde with our understandings on this subject, therefore you will be non the wiser if we were to explain it to you. The only thing that you may relate to is a theory brought forward by an extremely clever scientist who claims, in your time, that there is an unconscious link between, not just living organisms, but also between minerals as well. The link is to do with two fractions of the atom, one which has not been discovered as yet in your time. This unknown fraction will only be understood when your time realises that there are other ways of monitoring these particals besides light and sound- the connection is to do with magnetic fields.

Which page is it found within the book? I went through TVP and swear I couldn't find in there...Did i just forget it?