Vaccines, Autism and Glyphosate

a reply to: Snarl

We live longer, we work harder, we mass produce food we have children later and we vaccinate for everything and if we are not vaccinating we are taking anti-depressants. Yes I am pretty sure its environmental

a reply to: Agartha

I will be back tomorrow.

a reply to: Agartha

As I was asking earlier, could it be, at least partially, that psyche professionals are better trained to spot autism spectrum disorders now, as opposed to 60 years ago. And the broadening of the spectrum umbrella, as well, as the diseases become better understood?

a reply to: Agartha

FYI

jneuroinflammation.biomedcentral.com...

a reply to: pfishy

Agartha gave a link suggesting %60 of the increase may be due to improvements in diagnosis.

a reply to: Charlyboy

Sorry, I got my posts mixed up. I am trying to keep up with 6 or 7 threads right now. But, at least we seem to think alike. That's always fun.

a reply to: Agartha

I have been responding to everyone, as quickly as possible.

a reply to: Charlyboy

And doing quite a good job of it, I might add.

originally posted by: Charlyboy
I understand there has been an increase in diagnosis and reporting but that only accounts for an approximated %60, unfortunately we will never know what is diagnostic and what is not. Perhaps you are right, perhaps we are just aware of it now but that is unlikely.

Don't forget that 'special' children were hidden, sent away or even killed in the past. Unfortunately this still happens in certain countries.

There are some many factors we can link to autism and to the approx. 40% rise that cannot be explained with changes in diagnosis and reporting, these are some I discussed with colleagues not long ago: age of mother (mother's age have been increasing), parents with autism (some adults have only been diagnosed now,in their 30s/40s and 50s), maternal grandmother's habits (lots of drug use in the 60s and women are born with a limited number of ovules), etc etc. We could go on an on.

Firstly glyphosate is far more commonly used in farming practices and throughout the developing world, I shouldn't need to show you graphs on the rapid overuse of glyphosate.

True, since Round Up the use has tripled or more.

Adjuvants have changed from simple oil emulsion in the 1920's I think it was (which to be fair was a poor adjuvant) to an almost comprehensive aluminium adjuvant, which I am sure you will agree is a relatively poorly understood adjuvant (if memory serves me correctly it doesn't stimulate intracellular response??).

Actually the first adjuvants were mineral oil in water, but they were too reactogenic. Modern ones are mostly made with non-bacterial organics (squalene), but we also have inorganic compounds, killed bacterial products, food ones too. The difference with the modern ones is that they also stabilize the reactions, whilst the original ones (in the 30s) were too reactogenic for use in humans.

Also you must take into consideration the increase in polyvalent vaccinations and the fact we are starting to vaccinate from birth. The question to why its happening now and not 60 years ago if at all vaccine related is most likely due to epigenetic/environmental changes.

But if vaccines were to blame, then why countries with high vaccination rates have low autism rates? Oman, for example: 98% immunisation rate and only 1.4 children with autism per 10000 ( LINK ), whilst in the US immunization is 91% and autism 1 per 68 children.

I AM NOT AN ANTI VAXXER I AM CONCERNED FOR THE CHILDREN!

I didn't say you were and I did say not to take my statement personally, I just wanted to be honest and tell you that it's a common antivaxx answer to link vaccines with glyphosates and autism rates.

Seriously I saw what happened to my friends son 16 hrs post vaccine and febrile seizure, he changed overnight it was devastating. Sorry but its 1-30am over this side of the planet and I am struggling....

And I'm really sorry about your friends' son but if you really are a research scientists you know anecdotes don't count, because I could counteract yours with mine, I have three children (all teenagers now) fully immunized (even with Gardasil) and they are fine. Anecdotes can prompt research, but they are not facts.

originally posted by: Charlyboy
FYI
jneuroinflammation.biomedcentral.com...

First of all they are rats and you know a certain reaction with rats doesn't necessarily mean the same reaction with humans. Second, they were injected with Formalin! (for those not aware, Formalin is 40% formaldehyde and if swallowed it can produce instant death).

originally posted by: Charlyboy
I will be back tomorrow.

Sure, have a good rest! Also bear in mind that I work long unsociable hours in a hospital and I usually disappear for days....... but if you respond to me, I'll be back and I will reply.

And I enjoy these topics, you are a nice guy and I'm sure we can have good discussions back and forth. But I rather discuss in lay terms, so that everybody can understand.

Glyphosates aren't in vaccines though are they?

There seems to be one guy who did a report for the pressure group Mom's Across America, who claimed to have found absolutely minute traces in a vaccine.

It's a weedkiller, why would it be in vaccines?


If Glyphosates are responsible for autism, then we're getting exposed through our foods and through the spraying going on in our environments, not through our vaccines.

a reply to: Painterz

The glyphosphate exposure is from other vectors than vaccines, yes. Commercial crops, farm runoff, etc. I think the point being made is that it could possibly be acting in conjunction with the various ingredients in vaccines to exacerbate the problem.

a reply to: Agartha

Actually the first adjuvants were mineral oil in water, but they were too reactogenic. Modern ones are mostly made with non-bacterial organics (squalene), but we also have inorganic compounds, killed bacterial products, food ones too. The difference with the modern ones is that they also stabilize the reactions, whilst the original ones (in the 30s) were too reactogenic for use in humans

Thank you for that, I remember the mineral oil emulsions used and there was considerable work done to improve on this method and we ended up with the cocktails we have today which are incredibly efficient at eliciting an immune response. (I was only a decade out ). I know the aluminium adjuvant is is poorly understood and invokes a strong immune response. Again susceptible individuals.....

But if vaccines were to blame, then why countries with high vaccination rates have low autism rates? Oman, for example: 98% immunisation rate and only 1.4 children with autism per 10000 ( LINK ), whilst in the US immunization is 91% and autism 1 per 68 children.

Again, and I must keep reiterating this point, I am not blaming vaccines for autism, I am saying that there is potentially a unique set of circumstances that creates an environment in susceptible children which when challenged by viral infection or vaccination triggers a rapid regression into autism. There are a number of parents who say their children change rapidly after reaction to a vaccine. Unfortunately this is ignored and we are told that autism just happens to manifest at the time of infection. If this was a biological process that was on going throughout development we would see a slow transition into the autistic spectrum not a rapid onset.

Also the idea that vaccines are responsible for all cases of Autism is absurd, I am really only interested in the relatively small number that are potentially vaccine mediated. If this is the case then it explains why parents see this transition shortly after vaccination and why we find ourselves in an atmosphere of fear and anxiety regarding vaccines. I personally would like these cases investigated to determine why these kids are susceptible so we could develop testing to mitigate these heartbreaking events.

And I'm really sorry about your friends' son but if you really are a research scientists you know anecdotes don't count, because I could counteract yours with mine, I have three children (all teenagers now) fully immunized (even with Gardasil) and they are fine. Anecdotes can prompt research, but they are not facts

No anecdotes to not hold water in science but we are not talking science we are talking medicine, science is responsible for the development of medical procedures, drugs and therapies. Medicine is responsible for the delivery and clinical observation post delivery of these therapies be physical, chemo active etc. Medicine is an art not a science, every single patient has different requirements due to their genetic disposition. I go to a doctor and say I ate a steak and got sick, he treats me for food poisoning although it is anecdotal the chances are its food poisoning, no scientific evidence.

I saw the child the day before he was vaccinated, he spiked a fever and bang, I saw him 2 days after and it was crushing. I have spent enough time in hospitals with my son who has a seizure disorder to understand how parents thoughts are often dismissed based purely belief systems from a pretty parrot fashion education system (yes the same education system I spent time in). I am not blaming doctors, nurses or anyone for that matter, I am simply stating there is enough anecdotal evidence to warrant investigation. You simply cannot get scientific proof in the investigations are not undertaken.

First of all they are rats and you know a certain reaction with rats doesn't necessarily mean the same reaction with humans. Second, they were injected with Formalin! (for those not aware, Formalin is 40% formaldehyde and if swallowed it can produce instant death).

Yes agreed they are rats, our first port of call for many drug and food testing challenges as they are an animal model, I know its a kind of sledge hammer example and not the same as vaccines but the point I was trying to make is an intra-muscular application of an immune stimulant can cause systemic inflammation. I wasn't suggesting this closely mimicked our vaccines. I guess what I am trying to get at is if we have a population of children who for some reason are predisposed to a specific and exaggerated immune response leading to autism from an immune insult like vaccines or infection (and it does appear to my mind at least that it might be the case) we could identify these children and protect them.

Sure, have a good rest! Also bear in mind that I work long unsociable hours in a hospital and I usually disappear for days....... but if you respond to me, I'll be back and I will reply.

And I enjoy these topics, you are a nice guy and I'm sure we can have good discussions back and forth. But I rather discuss in lay terms, so that everybody can understand

I really appreciate your candour, I don't come here too much as the squabbling vexes me, I also enjoy the conversation and its important to be challenged and you do that eloquently.

Thank you for listening

a reply to: pfishy

That is the point yes.

a reply to: Painterz

There was no suggestion glyphosate is present in vaccines, I assume you just read the title and threw down a comment here? The suggestion is glyphosate maybe responsible for disrupting the development of the blood-brain barrier.

a reply to: Charlyboy

Well, I don't know. Maybe if I was getting vaccinated against crab grass or milkweed infections, glyphosphate would be a reasonable component in the formula.

a reply to: [post=22391415]pfishy[/post)

that would be an infection worth studying...

a reply to: Charlyboy

There's probably some Tijuana hookers that have equally fascinating ones. But I digress. And I also gross myself out thinking about that.

a reply to: pfishy

The definition of a microbiologist is someone who washes his hands before he goes to the toilet...

a reply to: Charlyboy

I am absolutely dedicating that one to memory! Fantastic!

a reply to: Charlyboy

The definition of a pessimist is someone who puts prunes on their bran flakes.