Heroin addicts may soon be able use in MA legally.

originally posted by: Ophiuchus 13
a reply to: caf1550
Addiction is a disease just as is alcoholism.
If centers are made where people suffering from the illness of addiction to opiates can go and congregate in mass it may help with those who may experience overdoses being able to receive treatment immediately.

These centers if ran correctly can enable users to see the mass of the disease more directly. Which may encourage the mentally stronger users to begin to help others like them to learn how to overcome. It would be more viable if the users could access synthetic less aggressive brands of opiates or mimics that are equally as effective on site. This would possibly pull many addicts to these centers off the streets and slowly take them away from more aggressive opiates and mimics like elephant tranquilizers over time.

In theory the addicted have sanctuary where they can access but must join for terms of at least nine months or more, where they can go to appease their addictions and find treatment on site.
If they leave at their own will they will have to start the program over from the start upon return, which limits the benefits if they had made it to longer term in the centers.

The goal is to eventually have congregating addicted who want to shake the addiction working with new incoming members suffering from the disease. Overseen and assisted by medical psychological professionals and physicians, that have onsite managed distribution of less aggressive or mimics drugs.
A attraction factor is required for such a disease to pull them from their attachments...

The ill will have place to sleep, feed their addiction on a somewhat limited bases & get educational support and job assistance if they need it to help reestablish their lives once they leave the centers and they will have a direct view of how massive the disease is and would of had hands on experience with trying to help those more ill.

As far as taxpayers cost think about how much a tomahawk missile cost to build and deploy and explode, so funding these centers isn't an impossible feat to overcome.
You can also factor in big Pharma and ask them to help fund the centers since it would be their drugs used within the centers and are some of their drugs many are addicted to.
Be well

Alocholism = addiction. SAME THING. It's an ADDICTION to alcohol.

So, if alcoholsim is a disease...then ADDICTION is a disease

Is video game addiction a disease?

originally posted by: caf1550
a reply to: mOjOm

Thats correct, most of the drugs users started with perfectly legal prescription drugs they a doctor prescribed them, but because of there high price on the streets that a lot of the users cannot afford they move on to the harder more dangerous drugs like heroin.

Now we are seeing heroin laced with fentanyl, which is making the drug even more potent. I personally think we should be prosecuting the drug traffickers who are knowingly selling these products to people, knowing good and well that they could possibly overdose and die from them. instead of prosecuting the user make a example of the seller. If you knowingly are selling these dangerous drugs you should not be allowed to stay in a civilized society, you should see long prison sentences, now In no way am I talking about marijuana here. i'm referring to heroin which is killing people left and right.

Fentanyl is nasty as... it comes in patches, people cut them, and the dose isn't spread evenly, most of the drug related deaths here are due to fentanyl, because people think if they cut it into small strips it's a small dose, you never know if you're going to get that whole 100ml in that small square or not, but because drugs are such a taboo subject, nobody will educate the users on this fact.

Fentanyl is 200x stronger than hospital grade morphine, putting it in heroin is disgusting and anyone caught doing so should be given a life sentence.

Oh wow, a free buzz in those places. I think there will be a lot of people moving there. Just think, they won't even have to rob people to buy drugs, they can do it for the hell of it instead, just in case they cut back the program they do not want to be out of practice.

a reply to: zGrimReapah

Grim, I couldn't agree more, the people who are lacing heroin with fentanyl are knowingly putting people in greater risk then they already were and they should be made an example of.

a reply to: caf1550

I think all drugs should be made legal... first of all if somebody wants to use it there is little chance someone will stop him. It will reduce crime with mega proportions... Legalisation will not invite more people to try drugs. Again if somebody wants to try a certain drug there is nobody stopping him..or her.

Think how much tax dollars will be saved when police and justice departments have other things to worry about than drug related crimes. Drugs useage can never be stopped so better try to find ways to regulate it and take it out of the world of criminals.

The hatred people have for drug users disturbs me, they're human beings too.

These facilities won't sell drugs, but will give them safe places to use them.

If the state sells drugs, then good, thank god! atleast it can be tested and regulated and taken out of the black market.

Street drugs are cut with so much # it makes the problem worse and kills people faster.

Not all drug users steal, drug users can hold jobs and pay for their habit, just because you see some # on TV or a few bad apples doesn't mean the whole bunch are rotten.

Also the tax from the drugs sold by the state would help make up for the treatments and also go into other projects like infrastructure, would cut crime drastically, would save lifes, stop spread of disease and educate people about the risks, less overdoses, more control over who has what and when and giving them a place to do so would keep it off the streets, you wouldn't find needles on the streets.

but if you think that's a bad thing you're entitled to your opinion.

originally posted by: zatara
a reply to: caf1550

I think all drugs should be made legal... first of all if somebody wants to use it there is little chance someone will stop him. It will reduce crime with mega proportions... Legalisation will not invite more people to try drugs. Again if somebody wants to try a certain drug there is nobody stopping him..or her.

Think how much tax dollars will be saved when police and justice departments have other things to worry about than drug related crimes. Drugs useage can never be stopped so better try to find ways to regulate it and take it out of the world of criminals.

Exactly. You simply can not legislate morality and anyone that thinks that they can is a blind fool. The war on some
Drugs is a massive Ponzi scheme heavily lobbied for by police and corrections unions and private, for profit Prisons. Criminalizing people for doing heroin or coca when tobacco and alcohol are legal despite being as, if not more, dangerous than opiates is pure insanity. An adult should be able to decide for themselves what they do or do not put into their bodies provided they're not behind the wheel of a car.

a reply to: caf1550

I think you will see more overdoses because now people wont be afraid of the legal repercussions of doing their drugs.

It doesn't work like that. People will do the drugs regardless of laws. Once addicted the user is no longer in the drivers seat. Addicts are along for the ride, go where the drug takes them. I think we are seeing greater heroin use because somehow, 90 percent of worlds Heroin production is coming from Afghanistan...

I'll let you connect those dots.

As for addiction being a disease I must disagree with you, I used chewing tobacco for almost 15 years and I was able to quit pretty much overnight, It wasn't difficult for me I just have will power and had the want to stop for my own health.

So you knew it was bad for you but kept using for 15 years, thats addictive behavior.

Then quit because of 'health' issues. Death is a powerful motivator.

I quit smoking cigarettes after thirty five years for the same reasons.

Quit or die... only one in ten stays quit. Lucky us not to have died during that time like so many others.

originally posted by: mOjOm
a reply to: caf1550

It's going to cost you no matter what.

It already costs taxpayers. You think most heroin addicts have health insurance? Who do you thinks pays for the multiple failed rehab stints? Or the repeated visits to ER's for OD's or treating other health issues related to their poor health? Or the LE resources that are expended? The idea is to build a model that reduces these costs and saves lives.

a reply to: intrptr

Spot on and solid points. I just can't fathom the mentality behind people who claim that "if you have the willpower" or some other nonsense while having no basis for comparison because they've never had to endure the horror of a physical withdrawal from long term opiate use. It's a point made entirely from ignorance and lack of empathy in my opinion andnit hasn't far less to do with willpower than quitting tobacco. That is like telling an alcoholic to just switch to lemonade, they'll be fine.

I wish I could explain in more detail what I'm trying to get at but I've been warned by mods more than once regarding crossing lines in the T&C relating to substances and personal use because apparently there isn't a distinction between long term and legitimate medical use of medication under a doctors care vs. recreational use even though the people with legitimate medical issues who are under the care of a physician aren't actually getting high but they still have to suffer and endure the same exact withdrawal symptoms.

a reply to: peter vlar

I wish I could explain in more detail what I'm trying to get at but I've been warned by mods more than once regarding crossing lines in the T&C relating to substances and personal use

Same here. As far as personal experience I think the TnC line is drawn at celebrating drug abuse. Warnings about the dangers of addiction and path to recovery are still personal experience but considered within TnC now , because they are helpful to others suffering from the addiction and abuse cycle.

Theres a fine line between legal and illegal 'isms'.

originally posted by: seeker1963

originally posted by: zGrimReapah
Having facilities addicts can use to take their substances in a clean, controlled manner.

I firmly believe decriminalizing drugs will make a difference, these facilities could have purity tests for drugs so people can test if the drug they're buying is mixed with fentanyl or testing the purity so they don't overdose, there can also be people trained with naloxone pens which can help reverse the effects of an overdose for 30 minutes while an ambulance arrives.

Also, people injecting in places that are unclean can give them sceptisemia [blood poisoning], these places could have alcohol wipes so they can clean injection sites.

Also, it would stop people from using crack houses and sharing equipment, this will stop the spread of AIDS and Hepatitis C.

If the government could regulate substances then they would be a lot safer, also these places could educate people on the risks.

You mention the costs of having these facilities, "Why should tax payers pay for this" You already are.

You pay for the medical cost out of your taxes for these people to be bought back to life from opiate overdoses, and you know, addiction is a mental disease, it's a sickness, having facilities with people who understand them might just remove the loneliness from it all.

People think all drug addicts are thieves are selfish and are the dregs of society, it doesn't have to be just for opiate addicts either, people who want to test substances can buy kits from there to test the quality, this will stop people who take ecstacy on a night out from getting a faulty batch or a too pure batch and overdose and die on it, they can also be educated on the dose and how to do so safely.

You cannot stop people from taking drugs, if they're going to take them, they will, but you can make sure they're doing it safely in a controlled environment and aren't a risk to anyone else.

Let em die!

Has our educational system become so poor that these idiots who choose to play Russian roulette with their lives now require those who are responsible to pay for those who just don't give a snip?

Nah, those who want to commit suicide know EXACTLEY what they are doing and that applies to those who want to do drugs that they damn well know are dangerous to use!

What the hell happened to personal responsibility in this mad house we currently live in?

Them dieing is not the problem.

Its them catching AIDS, Hep C and all the other nasties.
That liklely costs the tax payer Billions.


Spend A few million dollors for safe clinics with clean needles to shoot up or a few billion treating the junkies when they get Hep C and Aids?

Or throw them in jail which costs tens of billions plus the medical bills of them having HIV and Hep C.......

a reply to: zGrimReapah

It can be done. I know, from first hand experience.

I have had a total of 6 major surgeries (including 3 spinal fusions for herniated discs in my cervical spine) and had been on long-term pain management medications (including some heavy hitters). It came to a head 2 months ago and I told my docs, no more...that is it. I cannot live taking this stuff. I was living only long enough until my next scheduled medication.

With doctor supervision, I stopped cold-turkey. Was it rough? Hell yeah! But, I was determined to work through it, alone, with no help from anyone except bi-monthly doc visits for checking my status (vital stats, blood tests, etc...). I am now free of that big pharma monster, and am down to OTC Aleve and activity modification. I now will work to build up my activity levels to be able to get back to living life, really living not just surviving.

Given my personal experience, I am torn about this opioid proposal though. If the person visiting truly wishes to improve their life by getting off the drug, I am all for helping them do that in a doctor supervised manner. However, if someone simply abuses the system to keep them surviving between OD's, then all we would be doing is acting as a paid enabler. That, IMO, is unacceptable and I want no part of that, including taking money from my paycheck to throw down that hole.

At some point, people need to take responsibility for their own actions.

a reply to: Krakatoa

Good for you man. Kudos, sincerely. But I'm sure you know that one person's addiction is not indicative of others'. I've known a number of people who could quit smoking or drinking cold turkey, no looking back. And others that couldn't even with professional help. Everyone's brain is wired differently. Everyone's receptors are configured differently. It's not a willpower thing. But again, good on you.

There have been some debates about getting these facilities in the city I live in, and I wasn't thrilled when I first heard the idea, I'm now in favor of them due to the amount of fentanyl overdoses that have been going on from people who don't know its in there drugs, and like the article mentions it is providing a place for people to go for help. Not to mention the amount of times I've found used needles people have just tossed in high traffic areas or places where kids go, I'd like to hope that if people at least use these places it might cut down on the amounts that are left lying around.

I really don't mind my tax money being used to help addicts recover. I all so see it as a great feet of strength for an addicts to recover and have respect for that.

What I don't like, What I don't understand is this new preoccupation with governments to be Enablers to drug addicts. I was under the impression that Enabling was a bad thing to do for an addict.

I do realize that they are trying to save lives ... I just don't see their approach to be all that noble. They are taking the easy way out (like government often does).

Ill say this i am a heavy smoker from 11 years on up to 51 now at 11 I just smoked because every one smoked not knowing better at 14 i knew but it was to late .
Heck I was forced off twice in my life and even that did not help .
when i was 40 i had a very bad eye injury at first they dang near killed me on teh table fixing it turns out i am very sensitive to anastaticks . Anyway after that they got much more careful with me . well pain meds were the same take them and all heck brakes louse but they discovered that taking pain meds with depostorys made it possible for me to use them .
anyway long story short they finly had to take out the eye ( would not even chance putting me under to do it one heck of a light show let me tell you .
anyway with the pain meds and depository i took them 3 days . On the 3rd morning i woke still in pain but my tolerance by this time was high so could handle the pain . Only to find my self Wanting a pain pill a hour later craving it like i carve smokes .
I got up pour tem pills right down the tolit . even had withdrawal for the next 5 hours or so .
Better the pain then anotehr addiction i would not be able to brake .
So i understand good and well why so many start with pain pills and end up with street drugs when cut off .
you would not belive the offers I got for the pain pills i had .
and they were legal . they go for up to 50 $ each No i dumped them just not worth teh price .
anyway filling prisons is not the answer we have 5 million locked up now and 75 million who having smoked in teh last week ever one of them could have been 75 million people who are crimlised .
this police state has found the golden goose with drug laws they can incarcerate 1/3 of us any time they wish .
No when it is this many people its time to retink how you deal with the problem .
for GOD sake we have presidents who admitted smoking a joint and you think it should stay this way ?

a reply to: jtma508


That is so true. I decided to quit smoking one day and just did. I didn't need gum, or patches. Lifesavers helped the 1st week; but sadly I know many people who just cannot seem to quit smoking cigarettes no matter what they try.

I know this is going to sound weird, but when I was in my 20s I had my drinking days, luckily, my friends lived a mile from the bar, and we had one friend who always drove, so we were not endangering anyone, and we could drink. One night I kept hearing in my head "stop drinking it will interfere with your mission". Don't know where that come from; guardian angel whispering in my ear or whatever? I stopped right away.

I consider myself lucky and blessed for that, I can quit anything at anytime. Sadly, I have seen people destroy not only their lives, but those around them.

Wish everyone had that good fortune

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: caf1550

I think you will see more overdoses because now people wont be afraid of the legal repercussions of doing their drugs.

It doesn't work like that. People will do the drugs regardless of laws. Once addicted the user is no longer in the drivers seat. Addicts are along for the ride, go where the drug takes them. I think we are seeing greater heroin use because somehow, 90 percent of worlds Heroin production is coming from Afghanistan...

I'll let you connect those dots.

As for addiction being a disease I must disagree with you, I used chewing tobacco for almost 15 years and I was able to quit pretty much overnight, It wasn't difficult for me I just have will power and had the want to stop for my own health.

So you knew it was bad for you but kept using for 15 years, thats addictive behavior.

Then quit because of 'health' issues. Death is a powerful motivator.

I quit smoking cigarettes after thirty five years for the same reasons.

Quit or die... only one in ten stays quit. Lucky us not to have died during that time like so many others.

I never said I quit because of health issues, I quit because I knew the health risks that were associated with what I was doing and I wanted to stop before any of those risks became a symptom for me.

a reply to: jtma508

At the same time it is a willpower thing.

Krakatoa had the willpower to want to stop without anyone helping him but himself doing it, thats all I was saying before some people have the willpower to want to help themselves and some people don't have it. But at the same time like other members have stated at some point people have to be held accountable for their actions, at the end of the day these "junkies" are knowingly using a product that can cause great harm to them.