Heroin addicts may soon be able use in MA legally.

a reply to: caf1550


This should stop the Massachusetts governor from complaining about the ObamaCare replacement not having Opioid addiction/treatment benefits. No more "opioid crisis" when it's legal.. right?

You pay less tax with systems like these in the end. Less medical expenses, less crime, fewer social problems.

The economic argument makes sense if you want less tax spent on drug addicts. Which most people do.

originally posted by: caf1550
Massachusetts is now a step closer to allowing opioid addicts to use there drugs freely and without repercussion. The Mass. Medical society has recently voted 193-21 in favor of "supervised injection facilities", stating that in other countries like Canada they have seen a 35% reduce in overdoses in these facilities and a 30% increase in users seeking treatment in the facility.

So pretty much they have seen the reduction because when someone overdoses in the facility there are people already on hand to perform all life saving measures which I don't think is that bad. However I disagree with the fact that my tax dollars have a chance to be going to a place where junkies can "legally" get their fix.

Now this still has to go through the state legislature and get voted into law.

"I need to take a look at that one. I'm not familiar with it," said Gov. Charlie Baker on Monday.

While lawmakers on Beacon Hill might not be sold on the idea at the moment, there is already a proposal on the table to establish a framework for such a facility in the future.

Now I understand how devastating the opioid addiction not only in MA but throughout the entire country is right now, but I don't think it is acceptable for the tax dollars of the people of MA to go to a place used to get high. It should go to helping these individuals who need the help and want the help, but I also disagree with people when they say addiction is a disease, I fully believe it is a choice and if you have strong enough will power you can break that "habit".

What do the members of ATS think on both of these subjects.

NBC Boston

Ether way tax dollars will go to treatments or to the clean up of bodies when these people use at home. Maybe doing it this way will cost the tax payer less.

a reply to: seeker1963

Let em die?!

That's disgusting, absolutely disgusting.

People don't just take drugs to get high.

Some people might have underlying mitigating factors that aren't treated or correctly diagnosed by doctors/medical professionals and struggle to get by so they turn to other substances to help them manage in their day to day to life just to get a few minutes of peace.

Just because you were brought up in better circumstances does not mean those who didn't get a fair shot deserve to be euphanised.

If these facilities were run properly, then the underlying factors could be diagnosed and the addicts could get treatment, be weined off the substance and then contribute back into society.

People like you are the reason why drug addicts don't reach out and communicate that they're in trouble, because they're afraid of being looked down on.

originally posted by: jtma508
Hilarious. You're not from MA are you? The state legalized medical cannabis in 2012 and have allowed maybe a half dozen dispensaries to open... if you can call them that. And recreational was passed in 2016 and there is nothing happening around that at all. If anything is moving it's at a glacial pace. So heroin use? Maybe by 2040 or so.

Yes I am from MA, I work in Law Enforcement in MA and I lived here my entire life. by 2018 recreational use of cannabis will go into effect for persons 21 years or older in the confines of their homes. With the way the opioid crisis is going in this state and throughout the country and with the way MA legislature is I will not be surprised if this passes and goes into effect before the next decade starts.

a reply to: caf1550

It's going to cost you no matter what. Be it for the emergency room visits, arrests, or whatever. Providing a place where they can get high, but more importantly get help with their problem is going to save you money actually.

We know it works because other places have been doing this already. For once it would be nice to see people actually giving a damn about other people and the greater good instead of their damn tax dollars of which a very small amount goes to actually helping others in the first place.

Or has the idea of helping others by sparing a few bucks a year simply gone from the human race now??? Should we just arm ourselves and kill everything and everyone else in sight until there is nobody else left to complain about??

You know it's only going to get worse right??? Population is still growing guys. Now we're removing abortions as much as possible too. Yay, more and more people that you can hate helping. Luckily healthcare will be gone soon and that will kill off a bunch right there.

sounds like a win win.

Do your dope junky.

STEAL NOT MAH PROPERTEH

a reply to: caf1550

You're correct I have never been addicted to any drunks and I don't really drink that much.

Alcohol is a disgusting drug that destroys bodies, minds, and lives everyday. If you drink you are a drug user. You probably don't want to face that fact but that's not surprising, must drug users think if they only do it a little bit they are somehow better than the other users.

a reply to: mOjOm

This is the reason I wanted to make this thread and see what the members have to say about this topic because it is not just a localized problem, but one way or the other could effect all of us at some point. You do make some very solid points mOjOm. As for what I said about my tax dollars, MA is already one of the highest taxed states in the union and I don't really believe our tax money is spent well, that is why I don't want to see it go to waste, now this might not be a waste in some sense but I would like to see higher percentage points for less overdoses and more people getting the help they need.

Like the article said I believe it was 35% fewer overdoses in the facilities, in order for these facilities to work they need to get the drug users to them, and many of them will be to paranoid to go to them for fear of legal ramifications so outside of the facilities the overdose rates will still be skyrocketing.

a reply to: zGrimReapah

People don't just take drugs to get high.

I have some kind of eating disorder that causes me to not be able to keep my food down. The doctors have no idea why. None of the meds they gave me over the last 10 years have helped at all. Smoking pot helps 100%. I can keep anything down so long as I'm high when i eat. if not for this medicine I would have starved to death a long time ago.

I believe that my issues come from the franken foods and chemicals we all ingest here in the states. Probably has something to do with the fluoride in the water I drink everyday to.

My doctor knows about and encourages my marijuana smoking. Why? Because it works and she is a good doctor. Someone that cares about her patients past the point of a paycheck.

originally posted by: zGrimReapah
a reply to: seeker1963

Let em die?!

That's disgusting, absolutely disgusting.

People don't just take drugs to get high.

Some people might have underlying mitigating factors that aren't treated or correctly diagnosed by doctors/medical professionals and struggle to get by so they turn to other substances to help them manage in their day to day to life just to get a few minutes of peace.

Just because you were brought up in better circumstances does not mean those who didn't get a fair shot deserve to be euphanised.

If these facilities were run properly, then the underlying factors could be diagnosed and the addicts could get treatment, be weined off the substance and then contribute back into society.

People like you are the reason why drug addicts don't reach out and communicate that they're in trouble, because they're afraid of being looked down on.

No it isn't!
It's reality!
People who use heroin might as well put a revolver to their head with 1 bullet in it and pull the trigger! Sorry, but I see people with actual mental issues not being addressed while I see people like you make a big deal out of those who chose their path and all of a sudden we as a society have to feel sorry for them?

Call me heartless all you want! Life is about making choices right and wrong! So perhaps you might want to address our piss poor educational system before you condemn me for being at the point I just don't give a snip anymore about idiots who knowingly do drugs that they damn sure know will most likely put them in the situation we are now discussing?

And not for nothing? But we got homeless people, children who go to bed hungry, and we are going to spend money on idiots who have a death wish over those who need food and shelter?

Priorities matter!

originally posted by: caf1550
Massachusetts is now a step closer to allowing opioid addicts to use there drugs freely and without repercussion. The Mass. Medical society has recently voted 193-21 in favor of "supervised injection facilities", stating that in other countries like Canada they have seen a 35% reduce in overdoses in these facilities and a 30% increase in users seeking treatment in the facility.

So pretty much they have seen the reduction because when someone overdoses in the facility there are people already on hand to perform all life saving measures which I don't think is that bad. However I disagree with the fact that my tax dollars have a chance to be going to a place where junkies can "legally" get their fix.

It's not a 35% reduction in death by overdose, it's a reduction in the overall number of OD's so the medical personnel on hand, whether they perform life saving measures or not, isn't the deciding factor in this example. It's also not exactly true that there are no repercussions. This proposal( and that's all it is) doesn't say anything about legalizing or decriminalizing Heroin or other opiates sans prescription. All possession, paraphernalia and distribution laws would still apply to anyone being caught outside of an established injection center.

Now I understand how devastating the opioid addiction not only in MA but throughout the entire country is right now, but I don't think it is acceptable for the tax dollars of the people of MA to go to a place used to get high.

And with that statement you've created a de facto strawman because this isn't even a proposed bill or legislation let alone headed to the Governors desk. It's a suggestion by Massachusetts Medical Society. Don't get me wrong, knowing the lively Commonwealth as well as I do having lived next door for over 4 decades, they would likely fund it with tax dollars were this to become legislation and signed into law but at the moment, it's nothing more than a wish list for medical professionals who want to see fewer people die and more people seek treatment. I'd be willing to bet that if someone were willing to put the effort in, there are a number of grants available that would fund this without looking at the tax paying citizens for a handout

It's also important to note that this has been law in Portugal for nearly 20 years. Small amounts of narcotics are decriminalized for the user (dealers and distributors still face charges) so the state saves a ton of money by not incarcerating people. Treatment is by far a much less expensive option than prison. It's also proven to be a preventative measure as it has decreased not just death by OD but reduced transmission rates for HIV, Hep C and other bloodborn diseases passed by sharing needles so it saves the taxpayers more money in the long run because they aren't absorbing the medical costs of destitute drug addicts suffering from terminal conditions.

It should go to helping these individuals who need the help and want the help

Reducing OD's by more than 1/3 and increasing the number of people seeking treatment by almost the same amount sounds an awful lot like help people who need help to me.

but I also disagree with people when they say addiction is a disease, I fully believe it is a choice and if you have strong enough will power you can break that "habit".

Clearly you hage never been in long term pain management let alone suffered from an addiction. If you had even a modicum of experience with even prescription medications you would know that physical withdrawal symptoms are not Justice something you get over by having extraordinary will power or some other bull s#. While not nearly as dangerous as alcohol withdrawal (yet alcohol can be purchased at every corner store and kills more people than opiates, but that an entirely separate topic), opiate withdrawal can be excruciating and it depends on the size of your habit and the specific substances being abused but it can definitely cause harm to someone who attempts to detox themselves without medical supervision.

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: caf1550

You're correct I have never been addicted to any drunks and I don't really drink that much.

Alcohol is a disgusting drug that destroys bodies, minds, and lives everyday. If you drink you are a drug user. You probably don't want to face that fact but that's not surprising, must drug users think if they only do it a little bit they are somehow better than the other users.

I have drank a glass of Wine with a shot of Vodka every night since 1985. Makes for great sleeping! If that makes me a junkie, so be it. Since I have no intention of running for any public office, labels matter not. People are too sensitive these days about what others think.

a reply to: caf1550

That's a very good point and one that also needs to be addressed here. We need to stop treating addicts as criminals for simply being addicts. Especially with opiates which a lot of times starts from very legal and prescribed opiate drugs which are given to people by doctors.

Yet because our society demonizes people for what is basically a medical problem and turn it in to a crime we've created a situation where we criminalize a huge part of our population and shun them into even worse situations. Then we blame them for it too.

We are a sick society. We find ways and reasons to hate on people all the time. Yet we allow our corporate gods and rules to literally kill us, rob us and destroy our lives and this planet as we cheer them on. It's a sick f*cking world and we all do our little part in keeping it that way.

originally posted by: peter vlar

originally posted by: caf1550
Massachusetts is now a step closer to allowing opioid addicts to use there drugs freely and without repercussion. The Mass. Medical society has recently voted 193-21 in favor of "supervised injection facilities", stating that in other countries like Canada they have seen a 35% reduce in overdoses in these facilities and a 30% increase in users seeking treatment in the facility.

So pretty much they have seen the reduction because when someone overdoses in the facility there are people already on hand to perform all life saving measures which I don't think is that bad. However I disagree with the fact that my tax dollars have a chance to be going to a place where junkies can "legally" get their fix.

It's not a 35% reduction in death by overdose, it's a reduction in the overall number of OD's so the medical personnel on hand, whether they perform life saving measures or not, isn't the deciding factor in this example. It's also not exactly true that there are no repercussions. This proposal( and that's all it is) doesn't say anything about legalizing or decriminalizing Heroin or other opiates sans prescription. All possession, paraphernalia and distribution laws would still apply to anyone being caught outside of an established injection center.

Now I understand how devastating the opioid addiction not only in MA but throughout the entire country is right now, but I don't think it is acceptable for the tax dollars of the people of MA to go to a place used to get high.

And with that statement you've created a de facto strawman because this isn't even a proposed bill or legislation let alone headed to the Governors desk. It's a suggestion by Massachusetts Medical Society. Don't get me wrong, knowing the lively Commonwealth as well as I do having lived next door for over 4 decades, they would likely fund it with tax dollars were this to become legislation and signed into law but at the moment, it's nothing more than a wish list for medical professionals who want to see fewer people die and more people seek treatment. I'd be willing to bet that if someone were willing to put the effort in, there are a number of grants available that would fund this without looking at the tax paying citizens for a handout

It's also important to note that this has been law in Portugal for nearly 20 years. Small amounts of narcotics are decriminalized for the user (dealers and distributors still face charges) so the state saves a ton of money by not incarcerating people. Treatment is by far a much less expensive option than prison. It's also proven to be a preventative measure as it has decreased not just death by OD but reduced transmission rates for HIV, Hep C and other bloodborn diseases passed by sharing needles so it saves the taxpayers more money in the long run because they aren't absorbing the medical costs of destitute drug addicts suffering from terminal conditions.

It should go to helping these individuals who need the help and want the help

Reducing OD's by more than 1/3 and increasing the number of people seeking treatment by almost the same amount sounds an awful lot like help people who need help to me.

but I also disagree with people when they say addiction is a disease, I fully believe it is a choice and if you have strong enough will power you can break that "habit".

Clearly you hage never been in long term pain management let alone suffered from an addiction. If you had even a modicum of experience with even prescription medications you would know that physical withdrawal symptoms are not Justice something you get over by having extraordinary will power or some other bull s#. While not nearly as dangerous as alcohol withdrawal (yet alcohol can be purchased at every corner store and kills more people than opiates, but that an entirely separate topic), opiate withdrawal can be excruciating and it depends on the size of your habit and the specific substances being abused but it can definitely cause harm to someone who attempts to detox themselves without medical supervision.

I stated that it wasn't a bill yet but was a proposal that will be sent to that state legislature to look at and decide what will happen next.

Your'e correct with your assumption that I have never been in long term pain management because I haven't, I know plenty of people who have been prescribed hardcore painkillers because of various medical procedures they had done but refused to take the pain meds out of fear they would "like them to much".

Correct people caught outside of these facilities with any drug paraphernalia or drugs will see legal repercussions but people inside the facilities will see none. These only work if you can get the drug users to them, and I think people will be to paranoid to go to them out of fear for getting arrested,

a reply to: seeker1963

Say you got in a crash... needed pain medication, got over prescribed Xanax or Oxycontin or maybe even Fentanyl then the doctors just cut you off it, or you can't afford doctors bills so you can't get a new prescription, you're hooked with a habit and you're in excruciating pain, you're left crying out in agony.. you're saying.. you'd have the will power to go cold turkey, I honestly hope you never have to go through that, I honestly do, but it's not as simple as "Oh they had a choice, shouldn't have done it in the first place".

originally posted by: seeker1963
Let em die!

Has our educational system become so poor that these idiots who choose to play Russian roulette with their lives now require those who are responsible to pay for those who just don't give a snip?

Nah, those who want to commit suicide know EXACTLEY what they are doing and that applies to those who want to do drugs that they damn well know are dangerous to use!

What the hell happened to personal responsibility in this mad house we currently live in?

Dude... Just wow... I live in a place where opiate addiction is rampant, and this is the most insensitive comment I've ever read. A lot of the addicts are veterans who were prescribed opiates and got hooked. Some got involved for various other reasons, but they're still human beings with friends and families. They have potential and most don't like being addicts and wish they had a way out. I had 4 friends pass away in a 20 month timespan because of addiction, and they were great people. They had problems, but they weren't thieves or dealers.

The funny thing is, as a society, we did let em die. So you can be happy about that at least. I sincerely hope that you never have a family member who falls into the pit of addiction, because they'd be that much worse off with you in their life.

I remember why the war in drugs started...
what can we call this move?

a reply to: peter vlar

Clearly you hage never been in long term pain management let alone suffered from an addiction. If you had even a modicum of experience with even prescription medications you would know that physical withdrawal symptoms are not Justice something you get over by having extraordinary will power or some other bull s#. While not nearly as dangerous as alcohol withdrawal (yet alcohol can be purchased at every corner store and kills more people than opiates, but that an entirely separate topic), opiate withdrawal can be excruciating and it depends on the size of your habit and the specific substances being abused but it can definitely cause harm to someone who attempts to detox themselves without medical supervision

It's not even long term pain management between 8-15 days you can form opiate addiction, over here if you buy over the counter codeine then you're only recommended to use it for three days.

a reply to: mOjOm

Thats correct, most of the drugs users started with perfectly legal prescription drugs they a doctor prescribed them, but because of there high price on the streets that a lot of the users cannot afford they move on to the harder more dangerous drugs like heroin.

Now we are seeing heroin laced with fentanyl, which is making the drug even more potent. I personally think we should be prosecuting the drug traffickers who are knowingly selling these products to people, knowing good and well that they could possibly overdose and die from them. instead of prosecuting the user make a example of the seller. If you knowingly are selling these dangerous drugs you should not be allowed to stay in a civilized society, you should see long prison sentences, now In no way am I talking about marijuana here. i'm referring to heroin which is killing people left and right.