Pre-Sumerian Civilizations of Ancient Ukraine (20,000 BCE)

Any topic that challenges the standard academic narrative of our ancient past will always be contentious. So let me save some of your time and point out right from the start the chaff from the grain.

The Chaff.

To quote from Adrian Ivakhiv's In Search of Deeper Identities: Neopaganism and “Native Faith” in Contemporary Ukraine (page 14):

Alternative Archaeology, Ariosophy, and the Cultic Milieu

The prehistory of Eastern Europe, and especially that of Indo-European-speaking peoples, remains vigorously contested terrain. Where mainstream scholarship concedes many unknowns, popular writers fill these gaps in with their favored theories and imaginings. Nationalism has been a constant companion of many national archaeological traditions, and in the post-Soviet world, nationalist agendas have staged a comeback within archaeological and historical circles. Ukrainian ridnovir beliefs include many elements that are taken for granted or at least considered plausible by scholars. Other elements, however, are more controversial or unaccepted. It has been left to popular writers and to a small coterie of academically trained prehistorians to develop the more nationalist and pro-Pagan interpretations of the distant past.

Source

Anything with the label "alternative" is sure to raise a few eyebrows, what more if we add Ariosophy that can be connected to the Nazis and Neopaganism to boot?


The Grain.

As Adrian Ivakhiv mentioned above, very little is known from mainstream scholarship about the prehistory of Eastern Europe. So, for English speaking readers when Dr. Yuri Shilov's book Ancient History of Aratta-Ukraine (20,000 BCE - 1,000 CE) was published about 2 years ago, Tim & Heatherlee Hooker's translation should be welcomed.

Back in 2009, Tim & Heatherlee Hooker gave an hour-long lecture at Megalithomania Conference while they were in the middle of translating Dr. Yuri Shilov's book. Here's the video:

Lost connections to the origins of the magnificent super-cultures of Sumer and India are explored and restored in this fresh, personal perspective on the remarkable megalithic cultures of Ukraine. This territory was the site of the most enormous ancient cities on Earth associated with Aratta, the first recorded state in history and the fabled homeland of the Sumerians of Mesopotamia. This talk introduces the Trypillian civilization; Neolithic Vedic serpent graves; the Serpent's Wall; Druidic ceremony at the vast megalithic temple sanctuary of Stone Grave; the False Mountain of Enlila and the granite sanctuary-observatory of Steppe pyramid (still venerated by Tibetan llamas). The techniques of mytho-history and modern plasma science are combined with archaeological excavation to innovatively comprehend the Ukrainian megalithic landscape and its associated traditions. Despite the legacy of communism, politics and the inherent problems of penetrating Ukrainian and Russian languages, this land, its people and its true history are belatedly emerging to take their long-overdue place on the world stage.

Here's Tim & Heatherlee Hooker Megalithomania Interview published on Jun 5, 2017:

Tim and Lee are freelance translators examining the polysemantics of the ancient world through their research work in linguistic history, mytho-history, catastrophism and plasma science. Their long shared interest in megaliths and the associated panoramic and spiritual localities across Wessex and Wales was just the start of a long geographical pilgrimage towards researching the ancient history and associated cosmology of Sumer in Mesopotamia. Further research on Sumer eventually led to the pre-Sumerian Aratta and the Trypillian civilisation of ancient Ukraine. Following fieldwork in Ukraine, Malta and Italy, they recently presented a paper to the Vatican Conference on the Cucuteni-Trypillia civilisation of Romania, Ukraine and Moldova and have contributed to books on that culture. Both are engaged in international collaborative research on anomalies found in radio-isotope decay within granites that have been linked to cataclysmic plasma events recorded in the petroglyphs of ancient man.

Ancient Aratta: The World's first Civilisation
An Abstract of Yuri Shilov's book Ancient History of Aratta-Ukraine (20,000 BCE - 1,000 CE)
Book Preview
Formation of Ukraine in the context of world civilization by Yuri Shilov and Volodymyr Krasnoholovets (The link doesn't seem to work, click here to read the 230 kb.,18 page pdf file.

a reply to: MaxTamesSiva

I'm lost and don't feel like watching a long video at the moment, what is their theory in a nutshell?

a reply to: MaxTamesSiva

Not referring to this story specifically, but with say zacharia stitchen'a anchient alien theory. He is the only one who got those translations from those texts... and the proponents blantantly lie to push the theory..

So it is really hard to know if the "facts" these types put out there are accurate.

a reply to: MaxTamesSiva

It is a known fact that humans have lived in those parts of Europe since the Pleistocene, so i am guessing, they had a "civilization" as well..

Perhaps why Crimea is such a hot spot these days

What are they really fighting over?

a reply to: JoshuaCox
Here are 3 details that stuck in my head:
1. What is regarded as Ukraine's stonehenge in Aratta, Anatoly Kifishin, a Sumerian scholar found petroglyphs inside the caves and grottoes of Shu Nun, Kamyana Mohyla. Kifishin also found what he called proto-Sumerian scripts. I suppose they dated it to 20,000 to 22,000 BC from some of the scripts written with charcoal.

2. Similar proto-Sumerian scripts were also found in Turkey and China.

3. The Tibetan monks regularly make the pilgramage to Aratta, they believe that their ancestors came from Aratta. The Dalai Lama visited Arrata and was said to have "felt something very special about the place."

a reply to: solve
Exactly, that was Yuri Shilov and Volodymyr Krasnoholovets article Formation of Ukraine in the context of world civilization is all about.

Location location location
What's under the water?

a reply to: iWontGiveUP
Well, we think alike. Maybe for the past 5 to 20 years- Greece, Afghanistan, Egypt, Iraq and Syria... Iran is always on the crosshairs.

It's a good video. It opens up our minds to what the ancient people may have been thinking. I have researched some of the earth fields and this video actually accentuates some of those. Some may be speculation, but without speculating, you will never find your way to the truth. You need imagination to stimulate you to find the truth.

a reply to: MaxTamesSiva

Ok I got ya now, and the nazi reference..

They are doing a version of the nazi "aryan race that started civilization" stuff..

Well who knows where any group may have migrated from, but if I'm right there were no light skinned humans 20,000 years ago.

Not that that necessarily debunks their theory , since I hope they aren't going all master race on us...

If that is the best evidence it is super thin though..


"These guys writing looks kinda like theirs"

And

"One culture claims they came from there but there is no archeological evidence they did.."

Hell some cultures say they came from the moon and such...


The problem with a lot of these is the size of the hole they are filling...there are a thousand separate examples that could explain their findings..

Their theory is just one.

With science and archeology you need it to be the most logical explanation, not one of a thosand possibilities to be taken seriously.

a reply to: MaxTamesSiva

Bookmark
Off to watch
Thank you

a reply to: JoshuaCox
You might find this interesting Yes, There Are Bad Guys in the Ukrainian Government.

The problem with a lot of these is the size of the hole they are filling...there are a thousand separate examples that could explain their findings..

Their theory is just one.

With science and archeology you need it to be the most logical explanation, not one of a thousand possibilities to be taken seriously.

Agreed, but we have to start somewhere.

originally posted by: MaxTamesSiva
a reply to: JoshuaCox
Here are 3 details that stuck in my head:
1. What is regarded as Ukraine's stonehenge in Aratta, Anatoly Kifishin, a Sumerian scholar found petroglyphs inside the caves and grottoes of Shu Nun, Kamyana Mohyla. Kifishin also found what he called proto-Sumerian scripts. I suppose they dated it to 20,000 to 22,000 BC from some of the scripts written with charcoal.

2. Similar proto-Sumerian scripts were also found in Turkey and China.

3. The Tibetan monks regularly make the pilgramage to Aratta, they believe that their ancestors came from Aratta. The Dalai Lama visited Arrata and was said to have "felt something very special about the place."

Cuman Connection


Ukraine , China , Anatolia , Caucasia ,Egypt

a reply to: 23432
Thanks, I guess I have to use google translate... was it the Ethnogenetic Concepts of Prof. GS Fedorova-Huseynova you're referring to?

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: MaxTamesSiva

Ok I got ya now, and the nazi reference..

They are doing a version of the nazi "aryan race that started civilization" stuff..

Well who knows where any group may have migrated from, but if I'm right there were no light skinned humans 20,000 years ago.

Actually, DNA does show the migration paths of people. Lighter skin was possible once humans migrated away from the tropics - so it's possible as long ago as 125,000 years (maximum range).

If that is the best evidence it is super thin though..


"These guys writing looks kinda like theirs"

And

"One culture claims they came from there but there is no archeological evidence they did.."

Yes. Furthermore, we do know what Sumerian protowriting looks like and this looks nothing like it.

a reply to: Byrd

Yes. Furthermore, we do know what Sumerian protowriting looks like and this looks nothing like it.

Can you please link some images for comparison? I'll screen grab from the video and post it here.

From what I understand from Tim Hooker's lecture, all proto-Sumerian scripts will look different from one another depending on the place and the date it was found, so I guess we have to do the eye-test if there will be similarities or none at all. The picture above was said to be dated at 22,000 BC and similar to Kitoi, in China... but then again, I could be wrong.

originally posted by: MaxTamesSiva
a reply to: Byrd

Yes. Furthermore, we do know what Sumerian protowriting looks like and this looks nothing like it.

Can you please link some images for comparison? I'll screen grab from the video and post it here.

From what I understand from Tim Hooker's lecture, all proto-Sumerian scripts will look different from one another depending on the place and the date it was found, so I guess we have to do the eye-test if there will be similarities or none at all. The picture above was said to be dated at 22,000 BC and similar to Kitoi, in China... but then again, I could be wrong.

Pics of actual tablets with Proto-Cuneiform script: link
Hand-drawn lettering of a few Proto-Cuneiform words: link
The left column is the proto.

Harte

originally posted by: MaxTamesSiva
a reply to: 23432
Thanks, I guess I have to use google translate... was it the Ethnogenetic Concepts of Prof. GS Fedorova-Huseynova you're referring to?

I am interested in Etymology .

EthnoGenetics not too much .

There is one group of Cuman people who populated these places in pre-history and they still survive .

I think the Ukraine Flags Blue stripe is attributed to them somewhat and Oleg Kuzmuk is most famous Cuman at the moment .

originally posted by: Byrd Furthermore, we do know what Sumerian protowriting looks like and this looks nothing like it.

Looks more like Ogham. Too bad we can't call Barry Fell.

Harte