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What Level Of Skill Was Required To Fly A Plane Into The Pentagon ?
page: 25share:
originally posted by: Salander
Right you are. Personally, I am most skeptical that HH ever flew a 757 simulator. That claim arose only after the absurdity of his flying the maneuver in a 757 arose. Early flight records from Huffman said nothing about that. It was floated by those defending the official story and his hero status as a pilot. Funny,
Hanjour never did any training at Huffman aviation. Get your facts straight.
The pilotsfor911truth people seem to think the black box data might not be real. Apparently black box switching is actually a thing, and has
happened before in other crimes?
pilotsfor911truth.org...
Their position is based on analysis of the data itself not matching up with events, such as light poles getting knocked over, or showing the plane departing from the wrong gate when it left the airport. Things a forger might get wrong by way of just not being thorough (or assuming the people who saw the data would not give it thorough scrutiny.)
Earlier versions of events had the plane coming down from the North, instead of arriving from the Southwest.
It would be easier to approach that way, because you could navigate by just plain following the river, instead of needing to know all the landmarks in Arlington, which are mostly shorter buildings and patches of trees that look alike.
The northern approach scenario, however, has more interesting maneuvers, and leaves open the question of why would the plane avoid hitting the Northern face (where Rumsfeld's office was.)
pilotsfor911truth.org...
Their position is based on analysis of the data itself not matching up with events, such as light poles getting knocked over, or showing the plane departing from the wrong gate when it left the airport. Things a forger might get wrong by way of just not being thorough (or assuming the people who saw the data would not give it thorough scrutiny.)
Earlier versions of events had the plane coming down from the North, instead of arriving from the Southwest.
It would be easier to approach that way, because you could navigate by just plain following the river, instead of needing to know all the landmarks in Arlington, which are mostly shorter buildings and patches of trees that look alike.
The northern approach scenario, however, has more interesting maneuvers, and leaves open the question of why would the plane avoid hitting the Northern face (where Rumsfeld's office was.)
a reply to: bloodymarvelous
Their position was debunked when the last 4 seconds of the flight recorder was decoded. You still have radar data backed by an in flight pilot that confirmed the position of the commercial jet and radioed in the crash into the pentagon. The commercial jet crash attested by over 100 plus eyewitness.
Then you have all the works by Scientists for 9/11 Truth confirming a large jet crashed into the pentagon. Would you like to refute any of their arguments.....
Their position was debunked when the last 4 seconds of the flight recorder was decoded. You still have radar data backed by an in flight pilot that confirmed the position of the commercial jet and radioed in the crash into the pentagon. The commercial jet crash attested by over 100 plus eyewitness.
Then you have all the works by Scientists for 9/11 Truth confirming a large jet crashed into the pentagon. Would you like to refute any of their arguments.....
a reply to: bloodymarvelous
I didn't know the terrorists were after Rumsfeld. They were after striking at what the perceived a symbol of American power and evil.
Again, now a group of terrorists that almost crashed short of the pentagon should have conducted a precision hit. You think there is a conspiracy because you rate the crash at the pentagon like it was a diving competition? While ignoring radar data? In flight verification of flight 77's position?
I didn't know the terrorists were after Rumsfeld. They were after striking at what the perceived a symbol of American power and evil.
Again, now a group of terrorists that almost crashed short of the pentagon should have conducted a precision hit. You think there is a conspiracy because you rate the crash at the pentagon like it was a diving competition? While ignoring radar data? In flight verification of flight 77's position?
edit on 6-7-2017 by neutronflux because: Fixed wording
a reply to: micpsi
Your theory is stupid the auditors would be in the treasury department. Everything us paid from there. No reason for them to be in the pentagon at all. Second the area they hit was still under construction meaning no one moved in to offices yet.
Then there's the fact even if the auditor dies that's not going to stop an investigation. And to why he just didn't dive into the building the plane won't allow it. Short of cutting off the engines it's just doesn't drop. Even cutting off the engine it will still glide to a point.
See this us the problem people come up with stupid scenarios but choose to beloeve them because of the conspiratorial nature of the person. A general rule with logic always start with the simplest of explonations. You rule them out first and there is no evidence ruling out a plane that fits the facts.
Am me personally I think it's disrespectful to the families that lost loved one's in the crash. I used to love in PG county and actually had a friend who father died. I even attended the funeral and watched him receive a military burial. To say it didn't happen is insane. And as I said many families lost loved ones on 9/11. Unless you can Alex plain what happened to them and the planes the no plane theory is stupid.
Your theory is stupid the auditors would be in the treasury department. Everything us paid from there. No reason for them to be in the pentagon at all. Second the area they hit was still under construction meaning no one moved in to offices yet.
Then there's the fact even if the auditor dies that's not going to stop an investigation. And to why he just didn't dive into the building the plane won't allow it. Short of cutting off the engines it's just doesn't drop. Even cutting off the engine it will still glide to a point.
See this us the problem people come up with stupid scenarios but choose to beloeve them because of the conspiratorial nature of the person. A general rule with logic always start with the simplest of explonations. You rule them out first and there is no evidence ruling out a plane that fits the facts.
Am me personally I think it's disrespectful to the families that lost loved one's in the crash. I used to love in PG county and actually had a friend who father died. I even attended the funeral and watched him receive a military burial. To say it didn't happen is insane. And as I said many families lost loved ones on 9/11. Unless you can Alex plain what happened to them and the planes the no plane theory is stupid.
a reply to: dragonridr
Your appeal to emotion regarding the families is noted. Tugging at heartstrings is not helpful to rational analysis.
Not only were the auditors themselves killed, but the records they were examining were also destroyed.
The aeronautical maneuver, all things considered, ALL things considered, was impossible. The FDR data was forged.
You were deceived. We were all deceived.
Your appeal to emotion regarding the families is noted. Tugging at heartstrings is not helpful to rational analysis.
Not only were the auditors themselves killed, but the records they were examining were also destroyed.
The aeronautical maneuver, all things considered, ALL things considered, was impossible. The FDR data was forged.
You were deceived. We were all deceived.
You have your head on right.....proud to know ya
No FDR except for what some irreverent sob's claim. And that's just the crux, why some do not REFUSE TO BE A VICTIM, is telling on themselves......refuse to be a victim of the crappy lies of a media with an agenda of evil.a reply to: Salander
No FDR except for what some irreverent sob's claim. And that's just the crux, why some do not REFUSE TO BE A VICTIM, is telling on themselves......refuse to be a victim of the crappy lies of a media with an agenda of evil.a reply to: Salander
edit on 6-7-2017 by GBP/JPY because: (no reason given)
a reply to: Salander
There was nothing "impossible" about the maneuver, it was sloppy and on the verge of being out of control, but not impossible.
Some of the auditors were killed. It did not stop the investigation, nor did it affect any branch other than the US Army. Navy (Marine Corps) and Air Force records and auditors, were untouched. The Army, had to reassemble records by getting copies from every Army unit and base worldwide. But records were still there. And the evidence is there, you just have to want to look at it.
There was nothing "impossible" about the maneuver, it was sloppy and on the verge of being out of control, but not impossible.
Some of the auditors were killed. It did not stop the investigation, nor did it affect any branch other than the US Army. Navy (Marine Corps) and Air Force records and auditors, were untouched. The Army, had to reassemble records by getting copies from every Army unit and base worldwide. But records were still there. And the evidence is there, you just have to want to look at it.
I don't know about all the individuals who believe the M S media....dang....as for my bunch, we just see right through the badly performed antics.
I'm a seasoned pilot, I'm not seeing the damage on the wall, don't ya know.
I just refuse to let them make me a victim. I'm a Christian type, when we get to the truth age era, I'm gonna grab all the officialdom who love a lie by the friggin ear, and I'm going to parade them around in front of all before I chunk em in the chit pile. You know.....right before I let loose and tinkle on their sorry sap sucker azzes
ditby]edit on 6-7-2017 by GBP/JPY because: (no reason given)
I'm a seasoned pilot, I'm not seeing the damage on the wall, don't ya know.
I just refuse to let them make me a victim. I'm a Christian type, when we get to the truth age era, I'm gonna grab all the officialdom who love a lie by the friggin ear, and I'm going to parade them around in front of all before I chunk em in the chit pile. You know.....right before I let loose and tinkle on their sorry sap sucker azzes
ditby]edit on 6-7-2017 by GBP/JPY because: (no reason given)
edit on 6-7-2017 by GBP/JPY because: (no reason
given)
edit on 6-7-2017 by GBP/JPY because: That's right, I'm gonna do it so God won't have to.
edit on 6-7-2017 by
GBP/JPY because: (no reason given)
a reply to: GBP/JPY
If you were Christian, the Bible teaches vengeance belongs to the Lord. As the hands and feet of God, Jesus taught the Body of Christ to forgive. Might read up on what happens to those miss teaching the Bible........
Also give unto Caeser which is Caeser's......
If you were Christian, the Bible teaches vengeance belongs to the Lord. As the hands and feet of God, Jesus taught the Body of Christ to forgive. Might read up on what happens to those miss teaching the Bible........
Also give unto Caeser which is Caeser's......
I managed to find confirmation via radar in these two videos:
The first one is from Reagan Airport, which is only about 1 mile to the southeast of the Pentagon (so the middle of the radar is very close to where the pentagon is.) Flight 77 is a red dot with lots of dots trailing behind it, until very near the end, they put a white "S" over it to designate it.
www.youtube.com...
This other one is from a radar to the NorthWest of the Pentagon, so you'll see the same red dot with dots trailing after it, but this time it will be in the SouthEast of the center.
www.youtube.com...
A military plane arrived in the last couple of minutes (too late to do anything), and it is "Gopher06" . It made visual contact and started overserving it. So if you're having trouble finding the red dot, just look for Gopher06.
In the northern approach scenario, the question would be why they avoided him.
The issue for a conspiracy theory isn't whether or not it was a plane. Clearly, any very large conspiracy would be able to procure a plane.
The issue for conspiracy is how the plane would crash with no pilots. Either it needs to be flight 77. but flown by remote control. Or it needs to be another plane that switched with Flight 77 while its transponder was turned off, and then went on to crash.
If you're going to take an even half honest approach, you have to quite tangling the two theories. If it wasn't a conspiracy, then it was a human pilot. If it was a conspiracy, then it was not done by a human pilot.
There is no in between. No overlap.
If the blackbox shows weird anomolies, that would suggest data was fabricated in order to avoid having it be obvious the crashed plane was a separate plane from the hijacked plane.
OR... it could suggest the actual flight 77 was being piloted by remote control through its black box, and that is what is being covered up with false data.
The missile theory just a silly fringe theory.
The first one is from Reagan Airport, which is only about 1 mile to the southeast of the Pentagon (so the middle of the radar is very close to where the pentagon is.) Flight 77 is a red dot with lots of dots trailing behind it, until very near the end, they put a white "S" over it to designate it.
www.youtube.com...
This other one is from a radar to the NorthWest of the Pentagon, so you'll see the same red dot with dots trailing after it, but this time it will be in the SouthEast of the center.
www.youtube.com...
A military plane arrived in the last couple of minutes (too late to do anything), and it is "Gopher06" . It made visual contact and started overserving it. So if you're having trouble finding the red dot, just look for Gopher06.
originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: bloodymarvelous
I didn't know the terrorists were after Rumsfeld. They were after striking at what the perceived a symbol of American power and evil.
Again, now a group of terrorists that almost crashed short of the pentagon should have conducted a precision hit. You think there is a conspiracy because you rate the crash at the pentagon like it was a diving competition? While ignoring radar data? In flight verification of flight 77's position?
In the northern approach scenario, the question would be why they avoided him.
The issue for a conspiracy theory isn't whether or not it was a plane. Clearly, any very large conspiracy would be able to procure a plane.
The issue for conspiracy is how the plane would crash with no pilots. Either it needs to be flight 77. but flown by remote control. Or it needs to be another plane that switched with Flight 77 while its transponder was turned off, and then went on to crash.
If you're going to take an even half honest approach, you have to quite tangling the two theories. If it wasn't a conspiracy, then it was a human pilot. If it was a conspiracy, then it was not done by a human pilot.
There is no in between. No overlap.
If the blackbox shows weird anomolies, that would suggest data was fabricated in order to avoid having it be obvious the crashed plane was a separate plane from the hijacked plane.
OR... it could suggest the actual flight 77 was being piloted by remote control through its black box, and that is what is being covered up with false data.
The missile theory just a silly fringe theory.
a reply to: bloodymarvelous
It's much more than that. Where did all the flight 77 items come from and how did they end up at the pentagon. Wreckage, personal items, luggage, human remains to identify and release for burial.
If it was not flight 77, where did the original crew and passengers ended up? The swapped jet narrative requires false human remains, burials, airport staff, false families, and adds layers to the conspiracy that makes it increasingly improbable.
It's much more than that. Where did all the flight 77 items come from and how did they end up at the pentagon. Wreckage, personal items, luggage, human remains to identify and release for burial.
If it was not flight 77, where did the original crew and passengers ended up? The swapped jet narrative requires false human remains, burials, airport staff, false families, and adds layers to the conspiracy that makes it increasingly improbable.
originally posted by: bloodymarvelous
www.abovetopsecret.com...
This shows the flight of AAL77 from the west and by
Following the audio tapes, the target is observed until passing south of IAD airport
edit on 7/6/2017 by pale5218 because: (no reason
given)
edit on 7/6/2017 by pale5218 because: (no reason given)
a reply to: bloodymarvelous
You can't fly the plane by remote through the black box. The 757 and 767 would require physical control movements, which means having something with actuators plugged into the controls, and a way to receive signals. The recorders are just that, recorders. They don't have a two way communications link to receive signals to control the plane, nor do they have a physical link to the control actuators to move them.
You can't fly the plane by remote through the black box. The 757 and 767 would require physical control movements, which means having something with actuators plugged into the controls, and a way to receive signals. The recorders are just that, recorders. They don't have a two way communications link to receive signals to control the plane, nor do they have a physical link to the control actuators to move them.
edit on 7/6/2017 by pale5218 because: (no reason given)
Messed this up, didn't I
edit on 7/6/2017 by pale5218 because: (no reason given)
Messed it up twice
edit on 7/6/2017 by pale5218 because: (no reason given)
originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: bloodymarvelous
It's much more than that. Where did all the flight 77 items come from and how did they end up at the pentagon. Wreckage, personal items, luggage, human remains to identify and release for burial.
If it was not flight 77, where did the original crew and passengers ended up? The swapped jet narrative requires false human remains, burials, airport staff, false families, and adds layers to the conspiracy that makes it increasingly improbable.
You lose a lot of credibility when you exaggerate. But yes. The human remains would be the tough part to plant if the planes were switched.
Airport staff is not an issue if you use real hijackers to commandeer the plane (just not the ones who got the blame. Use people who look similar enough to use their ID's.)
It doesn't appear that flight 77 was always on radar. After the transponder got shut off it, but while it was far away from the nearest airport (and radar), a plane launched from anywhere in the country could take its place. It's not easy to track planes without transponders, because quite a lot of air traffic doesn't use transponders. So you've got to look for a needle in a haystack.
But as for flying by remote control, here is a link to a page that describes the basic of how to control a robotic device from the parallel port of a laptop.
www.robotoid.com...
Odds are you don't need actual robotics, though. Just rip out the steering wheel, find the sensor that detects its position, and bypass it completely. Same for instruments. Throttle, pretty much everything. Modern aircraft usually don't have actual wires reaching all the way to the cockpit.
a reply to: bloodymarvelous
The 757 and 767 are hydromechanical controls. They use control cables that attach to actuators. They run to the cockpit in their case. Boeing didn't do fly by wire until the 777.
The problem with remote control is where did they modify them? The military had fewer than 10, and still has fewer than 10. So they are fairly easy to track. And seeing a commercially painted 757 being worked on at s military base would raise eyebrows.
The 757 and 767 are hydromechanical controls. They use control cables that attach to actuators. They run to the cockpit in their case. Boeing didn't do fly by wire until the 777.
The problem with remote control is where did they modify them? The military had fewer than 10, and still has fewer than 10. So they are fairly easy to track. And seeing a commercially painted 757 being worked on at s military base would raise eyebrows.
edit on 7/6/2017 by Zaphod58 because:
(no reason given)