The great deception.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: Somekindofwizard

Historically has been done by one religion towards other religions..

More times than not with Christianity burning and murdering any nonbelievers...

The Jews did it to the phillistenes (hypothetically)..

The romans did it to the Christians..

The romans as Christians did it to everyone else..

Then the western Christians and Muslims started doing it to anyone else..



So for the last 60 years or so where ANY religion isn't really accepted in a political leaders policies and things have a far more secular bend.... now it seems to have almost stopped..

Hmm curious...

It couldn't have been the religions that were the problem there huh????

Funny but I can't recall too many 'religious wars'. The few that 'could' be labelled religious are actually power/territorial under guise of religious as religion is as 'anti-war' as it gets.

So in regards to your post blaming religion?....Bless you my son.....LMAO

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
The great deception is that salvation comes from outside of oneself and that oneself is unworthy of God's love unless they believe in said outside salvation.

The only true salvation comes from within and with one's realization of what they truly are which is the divine and eternal light.

Not a believer, however this is well said, to a point, since I would never be so arrogant as to consider myself "divine", in ANY sense of the word.

As an aside, I would argue the great deception alluded to is the men and women who take the tithings of the true believers and use it for their gold filled "churches" and multi-million dollar personal houses and toys. I always thought that tithing was to help the less fortunate?

a reply to: Lab4Us

I don't think there's anything arrogant about realizing your true nature personally. Why do most major religions teach about God being outside of yourself? Because they don't want you finding the one within you.

The great deceiver is society. Society goes amuck when concensus of the time gets all messed up. Entitlement is a part of this.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
The great deception is that salvation comes from outside of oneself and that oneself is unworthy of God's love unless they believe in said outside salvation.

The only true salvation comes from within and with one's realization of what they truly are which is the divine and eternal light.

So mass murderers such as Adolph Hitler (who led a country and an ideological movement to systematically murder six million people, not because of any criminal activity but because of their ancestry), are divine and eternal light?

Or even those who only murder just one person?

Or those who ruin the lives of others for their own personal gain?

Or those who incite hatred but don't do anything themselves?

Or those who are angry at others (who may not have actually done anything wrong)?

Or those who steal?

Or those who lie?

Or the violent?

Or those who are deceived and deceive others, too?

The great deception is that you can do something that you cannot.

You cannot go back in time and undo the wrongs you have done. What is done, is done.

The lawbreaker cannot pardon himself.

Only the ones you have wronged can forgive you and set things right again.

Only God can forgive sin.

a reply to: Somekindofwizard

The Bible speaks extensively of intelligent non-human beings.

In John 10:16, Jesus says that He has "other sheep, not of this fold" for which He must lay down His life.

This has traditionally been taken as referring to non-Jewish believers. Yet when he said that, He was in the the Temple in the part called Solomon's porch, which is a part of The Court of the Gentiles. This means that Jesus was likely addressing both His Jewish and Gentile followers, making His reference to "others" something else.

The existence of aliens would not disprove Christianity.

This will sound cliche but you are your own worst enemy. The greatest deception is your own perception. I grew up Agnostic because I knew I knew nothing about religion apart from surface thoughts. And it was those same surface thoughts by others that turned me off about the subject. I would listen to others opinions on it for a time until I jumped into the subject to see for myself and come to my own conclusions. It sort of happened indirectly as I was reading about ancient history. I read around cross culturally, became quasi religious for a period of time. Ironically after some years I got back to the religion I was born into, Orthodox Christianity since my parents are Greek. I read the Bible and was fixated on Logos and Christ. To me these characters existence don't mean as much as what they are saying and/or teaching. I was pretty moved by Jesus's parables and how logical they were. And the logos being acclimated to God. Logos has a long list of definitions such as word, discourse, logic, true speech etc. Interestingly enough around that time early this year I discovered Jordan Peterson. A nuversity of Toronto professor (I live in Toronto). Clinical psychologist. He has a new biblical series on YouTube. Does a lecture every Tuesday and is released the following week. I'm still agnostic but I might just be saying that as a defense mechanism to not be wrong. Whatever your belief system it is worth watching Jordan Peterson's Biblical series, it provides one of the most detailed analysis' I've ever seen on the topic of religion as a whole and mainly the stories in the Bible.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: Somekindofwizard

You sure the great deception is not a catch all cop out to pin on anyone who shows the flaws in christianities story???

God works in mysterious ways, it is all part of his plan, anything not of Jesus is evil, there is a vast conspiracy to make Christianity look bad..

Are all BS cop outs that sound good, but mean nothing.

If Christianity was real, why has every single testable historical claim has been debunked??

Name one.

Also, how do you test a historical claim? Do you go back in time and try different alternatives to see which one works best?

How come no biblical scholar has ever used to bible to discover a scientific theory or the origins of...well anything.

And no footballer has ever used scoring a goal to dredge for aluminium deposits, or ice a cake or, well... anything.

No person has ever done some experiment that led them to become a Christian..

Well, I haven't done 'an experiment' per se, but I have tested my Christian faith, so I'd say that I have.

How can you still consider Christianity when they got EVERYTHING wrong??

Hell , it should have gotten something right just by random chance.

This reasoning thing, you're doing it wrong!

originally posted by: EmmanuelGoldstein
a reply to: Somekindofwizard

The project blue beam hologram aliens will land in the ME and tell the world about their buddy back on their planet named Jesus.

Look, we've had the tech for it for years now.

We've even had the (dead) Tupac holographically projected and and appearing to interact with others on stage.

If they did use BlueBeam in the ME we'd all see it and go "damn, look at the resolution, I want one of those projectors for my media room"!

originally posted by: Somekindofwizard

When I was alot younger and growing up I always wondered what the great deception could be. Unbelievers can and will be decieved by alot because they don't believe in the first place. But my question has always been what could possibly decieve God's believers? The last few decade I've started to believe that it will be aliens. That to me anyway is the only possible explaination for something that could decieve believers. If aliens showed up tomorrow then the vast majority of religious people will abandon those beliefs because aliens just disproved it. The remaining believers will be ridiculed and mistreated, even to the point of being jailed and maybe put to death. I mean how can they not believe in aliens when they are standing right there.

What are your thoughts?

Hinduism and Buddhism don't really give a rip about aliens...

so when you say most religious people you actually mean the Abrahamic Religions Jewish, Islam and Christians.

In a hope that they will go away or fantasize about them be ridiculed? What is your point with this thread? And though it is your opinion they will then be mistreated by whom? People who have no morals or ethics? And again this is all based on your belief there are aliens which is just as unsubstantiated as Aliens landing so should you be ridiculed and mistreated?

What is to say we do not live in the Matrix and what you see in front of you is even real? LOL

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: watchitburn

Christianity was happy to do it when they ran society..

Perhaps the jailing and killing bit, since it is still occurring now that Christianity isn't running society, is a defect in humanity, of which Christianity is only a subset.

Definitely the 'killing on the basis of belief' part has been enacted far more by atheistic regimes such as Fascism and Communism, by an order of magnitude or more, than by all "Christian" groups over all of history.

a reply to: chr0naut

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Both good and bad are parts of the whole, only different aspects of it.

God in the bible said he creates both good and evil, peace and calamity, so I don't see the issue here. You cannot have one without the other.

I personally think the whole "rapture" ideology is part of the great deception. There won't be a singular thing that is "The great deception" but a combination of things.

The "rapture" was not even "doctrinal" until the 1830s... It is in many ways contrary to the Bible's statement that the tribulation is a "testing of the saints." How are the saints to be tested if they're "raptured" away? Really, the "rapture" is bollocks to me, but millions believe in it.

Lahayan Theology

a reply to: jon1

I feel the same. I have never understood the whole "If there are aliens that means there can't be a God" mentality. Yet, for some reason, many "Christians" seem to shudder at the notion that life elsewhere is not only possible, but probable. Hell, to me, that just magnifies the magnificence of a Deity... Of course, I have never been an orthodox Christian, sooo.... I am Christian in my belief in Jesus Christ, but me and the clergy diverge in many respects.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: Somekindofwizard

Historically has been done by one religion towards other religions..

More times than not with Christianity burning and murdering any nonbelievers...

Christians tend to want to convert nonbelievers. To kill anyone is a sin.

The Jews did it to the phillistenes (hypothetically)..

Firstly, Jews and Philistines are nations, not religions. One might even argue that "the philistines" actually means "other nations" and is a non-specific appellation, in the Septuagint translation, "Pelishtim" (in Hebrew) was translated into Greek "allophylos" meaning "another tribe", several times.

The other thing is that the Philistines were not Semitic, like modern day Palestinians. They were most likely maritime raiders from Crete and began raiding into Israel around 1200 BC, later establishing settlements. We know that they were raiders and also referred to as "one of the sea peoples" because they raided against the Hittite empire, Ugarit and even Egypt (where they were repulsed by Ramaes III).

The Philistine raiding parties looted, raided and killed the Israelites for nearly 580 years. The Philistines didn't even allow the Jews to be able to have horses or to have blacksmiths (both of which could lead to weapons and chariots to defend themselves. The Philistines used Iron weapons and chariots extensively). The Jews attempted several defences and rebellions but it wasn't until King David of Israel that there was sufficient military unity in Israel to deter the Philistines.

The romans did it to the Christians..

Roman is an ethnicity not a religion.

The romans as Christians did it to everyone else.

Byzantine Roman Christianity was not the only branch of Christianity. There were Eastern, Ethiopic and Coptic branches which did not have the same legacy of violence as factions within the Roman Catholic church.

Then the western Christians and Muslims started doing it to anyone else.

Judaism pre-dated Christianity and therefore said nothing against it. Christianity saw itself as an offshoot of Judaism and said nothing against it.

Christianity pre-dated Islam and therefore said nothing against it.

During Mohammed's lifetime there was little conflict between Christians, Jews and Muslims (they were all "people of the Book", this is also evidenced in the Medina Compact) but Mohammed was unquestionably a military strategist and leader. Apologists suggest that this was defensive but his attacks on peaceable traders caravans suggests otherwise.

The main conflict during Mohammed's lifetime was between himself (defending the city of Medina) and the Banu Bakr (defending the city of Mecca). Eventually, Mohammed took Mecca.

So for the last 60 years or so where ANY religion isn't really accepted in a political leaders policies and things have a far more secular bend.... now it seems to have almost stopped..

Hmm curious...

It couldn't have been the religions that were the problem there huh????

Where have you been? ISIS/Daesh is claiming that they are at war with the West and with any faith other than Islam, so it hasn't "stopped"!

But the fact that they have killed devout Muslims and destroyed Muslim holy sites (far more than they have done so to their nominal 'enemies') indicates that they are not religious but entirely secular terrorists, usually disobeying Sharia Law in doing so.

a reply to: nwtrucker

All before the last century were sold as Christian wars.. including the civil war on both sides all the churches said the government was doing gods work.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: jon1

Because the Bible is considered so supreme in some circles that..

A) it should have mentioned them.

Why? The Bible does mention other non-human intelligent beings.

B) places earth and humanity at the Pennical of the universe.

It is spelt "pinnacle".

The Bible recounts a hierarchy with God at the top, then the angels, then justified mankind, then the animals, then the fallen humans. The position of fallen angels is hard to determine as they are removed from the hierarchy.

At some future time mankind will usurp the angels but for now, we're coming in third place.

C) maybe it did mention them and they are demons.

D) the Bible is all encompassing and holds all the info humanity will ever need to know.

I have never seen anything in there about aircraft maintenance, knitting, photography, road rules, cocktail recipes or fly fishing?

E) doesn't match the creation story, so must be fake.

The Creation occupies the very first tiny bit of the Bible. It isn't actually what the Bible is about and I would surmise, the narrative is largely poetic and metaphorical; designed to give a clear basic framework from which to explain ethical and moral concepts expounded upon later in the Bible.

Plus dozens of reasons more...

When discussing a ancient text that long, it is so up to interpretation you can figure in literally anything you want.

I have observed that the more definition you give to something, the less one can deviate from the intended.

Certainly, with the Bible, I find the problem is where people take small sections out of context and conflate their own theories upon it.

Generally, if something appears to be contradictory in the Bible, I usually find that it is a particular interpretation of the section in question that is in error. When you look for an interpretation that conforms to all the conflicting sections, an understanding usually comes out where you suddenly see a close agreement and also a contextual sensibility, too. That and the fact that such topical agreement is then also echoed elsewhere in the Bible, leads to a confidence that by pursuing specifically those areas which appear to be conflicting, a greater wisdom and surety is attained.

a reply to: chr0naut

Hey your not needing to convincing me..

I agree with you, was just listing the ones I had heard off the top of my head.

A) if I'm right man was put above the angels and everything else but god.

B) you talking about people who think it is the unblemished word of god.. so..

C) more writing only helps if it is consistent.. if it is contradictory then anything that big provides verses that justify anything.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

God so loved the world he gave his only begotten son as a ransom for their sinful life. Salvation comes from God through Faith on his son finished work on the cross.

Tue salvation comes from the God of salvation. One is made divine through their faith n Jesus Christ and not before then.

So your hope n salvation coming from within ones self is a false hope.

Christ is our living hope and the only way to the Father.

But just to be sure God loves all men and desires them all to be saved but only your faith on Christ will apply the benefits of his love unto your life, like Salvation, Holiness, Righteousness, Justification and eternal life with God forever. .

a reply to: EmmanuelGoldstein

no they, the so called Aliens, which are really devils, will convince you they are the good aliens and Jesus and his host, including the believers are the evil ones coming to kill everyone.

it is the same tactics the Democrats use it in describing their republican opponents as wanting to kill you, or the children and the elderly. Typical playing to your emotional feelings and not on the truth of God's word.

What is to be remembered is that God gives all non believers over to this deception.