Is the God of Genesis 1 El or Yam?

originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

El was Yam's father and together they fought side by side as enemies of Baal who was the Old Testament Devil, I bet you have at least heard of the latter.

Exo 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

That has been tried many times before you were even thought of. The best thing to do is to slip it into the Quran or perhaps write your own bible.

Why would anyone put 1200BC pagan mythology in the Qur'an, the Word of God/Allah?

El is the only God we know, as Al-Ilah or Allah to the Aramaic Elah.

You know we are Monotheists who worship the God of Abraham.

Or live in the woods.

What a ridiculous thing to say.

People, religous people like myself, a Muslim, can examine the primitive versions of Judaism in Canaanite mythology and learn a lot.

Without being immature and snobbish with a serious complex of sorts and a religous chip on your shoulder.

You are being rude for no reason other than you are a Bible thumper.

Not s very wise one either

Don't you all know you are a part of the sea (consciousness) of mankind and that the accuser both within and without(within others) will persecute you? How will you defeat him?

We are bread, but one is the head. Take a stand and take the narrow road and be on the right side of El (the one before us).
Die of your desire, ill will, ill thoughts, ill intentions and be born again by the flood of realization. Hear if you will, if not, my compassion is with you.

a reply to: Disturbinatti

People, religous people like myself, a Muslim, can examine the primitive versions of Judaism in Canaanite mythology and learn a lot. Without being immature and snobbish with a serious complex of sorts and a religous chip on your shoulder. You are being rude for no reason other than you are a Bible thumper.

The post was directed to Utnapisjtim and not to you. If you are unable to sort the message then you need a little more insight. The entirety of the post was to remind Utnapisjtim that his trying to interpolate another deity such as Yam into the Hebrew bible with the idea that his Yam is some how the son of El as both being Gods cannot be allowed to stand by any measure of intelligence. He knew this when he introduced his obscene Polytheistic thread.

If the Muslims care to borrow literature then that is permissible in the literary world but to steal literature and then change it to suite your doctrine is not to stand unnoticed. If that bothers you then you also must be reminded that the Hebrew literature declares specifically that there is only one God and His name is not YAM. That was the reason I posted as I did. You do not seem to understand that what this shows is total disrespect for the Hebrew literature.

You should also quit playing the victim game and understand that your friend, that you champion, is the most rude and self centered individual that I have had the displeasure of encountering. You need to read his prior threads.

a reply to: Seede

I am well aware who you were talking to.

Because we are not in private conversations and I can see what you say.

My point remains the same. You are immature and suggest the absurd because you are mad a connection between the Bible and the Cannanite religion exist.

You respond by saying it should be added to the Qur'an so as a Muslim I object to such absurdities.

I am perfectly comfortable with the fact the polytheism is older than an the parent of Monotheism.

Apparently you can not handle it.

Oh well.

originally posted by: Sump3
Don't you all know you are a part of the sea (consciousness) of mankind and that the accuser both within and without(within others) will persecute you? How will you defeat him?

We are bread, but one is the head. Take a stand and take the narrow road and be on the right side of El (the one before us).
Die of your desire, ill will, ill thoughts, ill intentions and be born again by the flood of realization. Hear if you will, if not, my compassion is with you.

I know nonsensical rhetoric like this when I see it.


Not because of any reason other than it is true I am telling you "Don't you know that you said nothing meaningful and you only look like you want people to think you are smart?"

Rhetorical​question obviously in case you don't realize I am not inquiring but stating the obvious as a question, though the answer is evident you don't realize it at all.

That's the impression I got.

Certainly no wisdom is in those words you just spoke.

a reply to: Seede



Believe me seedy I am used to cry baby Christians who can't stand to see THEIR religion picked apart so just hurl random and silly insults about (usually) Islam, but other religions when it is convenient.

Point is you can't defend your theology because your scripture doesn't support it and actually denies it, contradicts it.

All you can do is return legitimate critique with slander.

Not a very effective strategy but you would not know it by observing Christians, they seem to think it doesn't make them look like absolute robotic fools.

Go pray to your 3 "gods" and figure out which one is in charge, because Jesus. (pbuh) says "Of my own power I can do nothing."

Not very God like.

You worship a man who said "The Lord OUR God is ONE God."

He wasn't speaking in third person(s).

He has a God....God.

Our God.

I worship God.

You worship His creation Jesus pbuh the Messiah.

Which means I am a disciple of Christ (pbuh) and Mohammed (saws), ALL Prophets (pbut) but I don't worship ANY.

There is no god but God....

The Lord our God is ONE....

Jesus (pbuh) took Shahada and taught that he himself was a Messenger (pbuh).

As did the Seal of the Prophets Mohammed (saws), and every Muslim since has believed in Jesus (pbuh) as Messiah and Mohammed as (saws) Allah's Messenger to the Muslims.


We prefer Monotheism to Tritheism.

originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: Disturbinatti

People, religous people like myself, a Muslim, can examine the primitive versions of Judaism in Canaanite mythology and learn a lot. Without being immature and snobbish with a serious complex of sorts and a religous chip on your shoulder. You are being rude for no reason other than you are a Bible thumper.

The post was directed to Utnapisjtim and not to you.

"Sensless man! Do you need to be told...."

Faith without works is dead and I don't need you to be directing a comment at me to respond to it?

I would think that is obvious.

Your​ problem is what I said is true.

If you are unable to sort the message then you need a little more insight.

I actually did sort the message, have all the insight necessary to determine you responded to Utanapishtim by insulting the Qur'an, which is not relevant to the topic whatsoever.

I think that is clear.

You are a confused person Seede.

The entirety of the post was to remind Utnapisjtim that his trying to interpolate another deity such as Yam into the Hebrew bible with the idea that his Yam is some how the son of El as both being Gods cannot be allowed to stand by any measure of intelligence. He knew this when he introduced his obscene Polytheistic thread.

Yet you absolutely had to mention the Qur'an?

You would have made the same point had you not so it was unnecessary and the fact is the Bible is full of connections with Canaanite mythology.

The Qur'an doesn't mention any God but El/Illah, Al-Ilah; Allah.

No Baal, Mot, Yam, Shachar, Shalim, etc.

There are some demons mentioned but only to denounce their being worshipped before Islam, which put an end to idolatry in Mekka.

Utanapishtim is much more accurate doing what he or she is doing using the Bible because it is related, Cannanite mythology is the source.

Obviously the Qur'an is related to the Bible and the same mythology too.

It just isn't​ full of false gods and Idolatry.

No Baal worship.

If the Muslims care to borrow literature

We have our own literature and no need to borrow, the Qur'an is just fine.

then that is permissible in the literary world but to steal literature and then change it to suite your doctrine is not to stand unnoticed. If that bothers you then you also must be reminded that the Hebrew literature declares specifically that there is only one God and His name is not YAM. That was the reason I posted as I did. You do not seem to understand that what this shows is total disrespect for the Hebrew literature.

You should also quit playing the victim game and understand that your friend, that you champion, is the most rude and self centered individual that I have had the displeasure of encountering. You need to read his prior threads.

Let him do what he wants I am more worried about you being rude to people for no reason.

Maybe Yam isn't El, it's true.

It was actually the Israelites who "stole" the myths and gods and God of Cannan and Babylon and other places too.

Not Utanapishtim.

a reply to: Disturbinatti

Faith without works is dead and I don't need you to be directing a comment at me to respond to it?

If there is no need for you to receive a direct comment to another man's stupidity then why did you post to me? The affair was not yours to begin with and I see nothing in connection with Faith without works. You need a rest to clear your muddled brain.

The Qur'an doesn't mention any God but El/Illah, Al-Ilah; Allah. No Baal, Mot, Yam, Shachar, Shalim, etc.

You have now got the point. Neither has the Hebrew scriptures contain the afore mentioned gods. My point exactly.

Obviously the Qur'an is related to the Bible and the same mythology too. It just isn't​ full of false gods and Idolatry.

That remark show your ignorance. The only relationship is the theft of Hebrew literature. How could a Jew copy the directive of a Muslim who did not even exist till well over 1500 years later? Humm? And why would any man use a portion of literature that contains any doctrine other than his? You are senseless and without reason the same as your founders.

Maybe Yam isn't El, it's true.

Utanapishtim is much more accurate doing what he or she is doing using the Bible because it is related, Cannanite mythology is the source.

Once you get your brain straightened, please tell which of the above quotes pertains to your double mindedness. Your lost and you very well know it.

By the way you neglected to understand that your champion is an atheist and I did invite him to use the same on the Quran as he does on the Hebrew literature. Do you understand? If your soul mate uses the bible because it is related to Cannanite mythology then is the Quran which is taken from the same source not equally corrupt? Humm? Still don't understand?

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

I actually have a different book called " Ritual and Cult at Ugarit", by D. Pardee, 1997, if it helps you I am offering information that obviously connects ancient Canaanite mythology with later Hebrew and Phoenician and eventually the Byble, I us y rather than i because I want to point out that it's named after a Phoenician city, Byblos, where Philo of Byblos was from who preserved Sancuniathon and is preserved in Eusebius Prep. Ev., and is amazingly similar to Jewish tales with some of the same names too, and the main source with Egypt competing, of Greco-Roman mythology.


Chapter 1

Deity List

Ill(El) spn (Sapan, Zephon(?) ) God of Mt Sapan

Ill IbI (El Abba, God [of the?] Father) I or i (not L) is A/E from Ugaritic to Aramaic-Hebrew.

Dagan

Baal Sapab

Baalim

Salim-Shachar (Day star Night Star. Venus)


Yarihu (Moon)

Rasap(Resheph of the Bible)

Dadmis(Dydimus-Tammus/Thomas aka Jude)

Malakuma (Milcome)

Notes:

Philo of Byblos

Elioun (Elyon, Most High)
Ge, Ouranos
Elos=Kronos
Dagon


DINGIR.E.NI ... Sumerian word for god (DINGIR)+ Hurrian eni also word for god.

Burnt offerings, peace offerings, bulls and rams, the ritual is described but fragmented.


2 bulls for Yarihu on a full moon.


Gataruma, I don't know what it means but looks like Gautama to me, 2 bulls and a bull and ram.



Beth Horon/Horan is mentioned.

B'l mrym spn is translated Baal on the heights of Sapan.

Maryam would have to mean "Heights" and Magdala means "Tower."

NHS Nahash means Serpent as in the Bible

Break time.

a reply to: Seede



Don't worry as long as you "People of the Book.", a general term meaning Jews and Christians, but also Sabaeans and Magians who will all be judged according to their deeds, and the righteous have "No cause for greif, no fear" on "The Day of Allah (Judgement Day)."

Regardless of religous persuasion and according to the Qur'an.

So I don't believe you are going to hell so long as you don't deserve it according to the Will of God.

Even if you go against Jesus (pbuh) orders and follow the Nicene Creed and worship the Trinity I believe Jesus (pbuh) would want you forgiven and Paul blamed as a false prophet, it's not your fault really that you don't know the Bible and Jesus pbuh reject the notion of more than 1 God.

Jesus pbuh was no God because God is his God too.

"The Lord our God is ONE God."

"OUR GOD."

Show me YHVH saying that in the Tanakh.

Because if "God"/Jesus pbuh has a God...


Who IS God's God?

a reply to: Disturbinatti

Matt. 6:24
"No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other."

And Luke 16:13
"No servant can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other."

Naw....it's EHYEH......Ehyeh asher Ehyeh

Whittles down to Jesus believe it or not, amazing really.

God said tell them my name is Ehyeh.....now it can mean what I wil become....as in flesh

Told ya amazing.......He wanted to become flesh......to build something like a reality

Was He thinking when He told Moses tell them to call me Ehyeh, He was thinking I will become a ....human......( Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh is I am who I am....or I will be who I will be....or I will become who I will become )

Jesus

Never heard of "Yam." But in Hinduism, the god of death and the afterlife is Yama. Obvious parallels. Similar name, traits, etc.

a reply to: Kromlech



Zoroastrians had Yima who was before Zoroaster and his teacher or predecessor but who did not want to be.

Probably related since Zoroastrianism is an Aryan religion that is a Monotheistic quasi reversal of Hinduism.

Daevas are good in Hinduism, demonic in Zoroastrianism, and that is just the most known example but even Ahriman sounds a bit like Brahmin and they were an offshoot of them, like the Chaldeans and Abraham who later met the Creator, God Himself.

So did Zarathustra.

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: Disturbinatti

Matt. 6:24
"No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other."

And Luke 16:13
"No servant can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other."

Imagine how hard 3 is!!!

I realize why trinitarian anger is so prevalent, you can't serve 2 but 3 makes you insane!

a reply to: GBP/JPY


Ahayah Asher Ahayah has NOTHING to do with anyone but YHVH and isn't Jesus pbuh if that's what you are saying.

I have shown enough words of his to prove he denied being God, it's beyond dispute using the Bible.

You are confusing Ahayah, "I Am" with "I am God."

The additional word "God" is required after "I am" if you want to argue Jesus pbuh said "I am God."

But "I am" is at maximum saying I am prexistent.

Because he denies being God and that statement is no revelation to the contrary I wonder if you actually are trying to say, as it's been discussed and dismissed already, this common but pathetic attempt at making Jesus pbuh say what he didn't and even denied.


"The Lord OUR GOD IS ONE GOD."

The Lord is YHVH and YHVH should not be translated as Lord but is BECAUSE every time Jesus pbuh is called Master or even Adon which are HUMAN TITLES in the Bible it can be claimed "Jesus is Lord OUR God."

Such deception is prevalent because people don't investigate such matters enough but factually speaking that statement made to Moses pbuh has nothing whatsoever to do with Jesus pbuh.

I am curious why people don't see the difference between saying "I am."

And:

"I Am Asher I Am."


BTW Asher or Asshur was the God of Assyria.

Naw.....when Moses asked God his personal name at the burning bush......that is what God said....

Tell them Ehyeh........it's not I am.........it's I will be what I want to be........flesh

JESUS , my brother

I don't know if you guys are familiar with this theory, but there are some who suggest that אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה is a statement affirming Mesopotamian theology:

"Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh"
"I Am Eyeh"
"I am Ea"
"I am Enki"


It's not a theory that I personally prescribe to, but just thought I'd share in light of this conversation.

originally posted by: Sahabi

I don't know if you guys are familiar with this theory, but there are some who suggest that אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה is a statement affirming Mesopotamian theology:

"Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh"
"I Am Eyeh"
"I am Ea"
"I am Enki"


It's not a theory that I personally prescribe to, but just thought I'd share in light of this conversation.

Also, take a look at the Hebrew in the first verse of the fabled Psalm 23. Sigh no more....

a reply to: Disturbinatti

Imagine how hard 3 is!!!

I realize why trinitarian anger is so prevalent, you can't serve 2 but 3 makes you insane!

The Son and the Holy Spirit glorify the Father.

Imo, your understanding of the trinity needs work. Idk, Disturbinatti there's a way it makes sense, though it may lead to more questions then answers for you...