Plot holes in the bible and what the motivation for it would be

a reply to: TzarChasm

Oh! You removed something I really wanted to reply to! Oh well. If you took it out you had a reason.

those four questions are pretty selfish and egocentric if you ask me.

Those four questions are asked by every person alive who has an IQ over 15. Does that make us all conceted and selfish? No, just curious. It's the first questions we ask before we start looking for the answers.

sounds like your friend in those videos found a way to sell spirituality by pandering to insecurity and conceit. in this case, christianity is a front for con men capitalizing on weak minds, people who have discovered that paying for peace of mind is simpler than earning it.

My friend? I would like to think of Robert Morris as my friend but for now we have to settle with being in the same family.

Paying for peace? That's the catholic church. Makes me squirm.

The beauty of the rest of your quote?

See that's just the thing. We CAN'T earn it. Peace and (true) love and eternity and the daily friendship given you by the grace of God - is a gift.

A simple gift that no other 'so called' religion can even come close to.

Believe. Trust/Have faith. Endure until the end... Eternity is your prize with a whole lot more thrown in that’s just too flipping cool to even understand at times!!!

And all that with no ‘earning’ involved.

peace

a reply to: silo13

(Thus the verse where Abraham tells the two men he took with Isaac and himself to stay and watch the donkey and ‘we will return’ to you).

my point was that abraham being wise of the situation is beside the point. god commanded him to kill his child, which abraham would have fully been willing to do. he may have suggested to his friends that the kid would be fine, but thats speculation considering no one knows the mind of god. according to the official narrative anyway. anyone willing to kill family for their deity ought to seriously reconsider their faith. thats the kind of faith that corrupts you.

a reply to: silo13

See that's just the thing. We CAN'T earn it. Peace and (true) love and eternity and the daily friendship given you by the grace of God - is a gift.

i promise you that god is not the only place you can get those things. there are other ways that dont require you to sell your soul or condemn your nature as a human being. it might be a little harder doing it the organic way, but nothing worth doing is ever easy. and it becomes yours. not a gift, not a favor bestowed from on high, but a product of your own making that you keep until you no longer need it. the beauty of human craftmanship as opposed to supernatural bargains. it is ironic that they use the parable of jesus and lucifer to warn people against making deals with the devil...just to turn around and offer you a deal with the guy who literally invented the father of lies. where do you think lucifer learned it from? he just magically became a deceiver? plot hole, check. all of his otherworldly gifts come from one place. just like yours. might want to check that package for strings.

a reply to: Astyanax

What in the world makes you believe that I would regard the claims of the Qu’ran with any more credulity than those of the Bible? I grew out of religion many years ago, although it continues to fascinate me as a subject of inquiry.

Hi hi - I've been concentrating on another conversation. I'm not ignoring you. I just realized when I saw this I was tired last night and thought inadvertently I was responding to someone else here in the thread (when I brought up that quran thing).

That may be good enough for fellow believers, but it provides no support for your claims and gives no reason for anyone who is not of your faith to accept what you say. You are doomed to preach only to the converted.

If that were the case then why are there billions of Christians? New ones every day.

No, not 'doomed' to preach to believers. To people who recognize a greater truth than themselves, a greater truth than anything else in this world and open themselves up to receiving that truth - or at least researching it.

As for the authenticity of the bible? You choose your book, I choose mine.

I choose a book, inspired by God with 66 books, penned by over 40 men who didn't even know each other, yet despite being written over a period of 2000 years the discovery that within these 66 books? An integrated message system.

Technically speaking. See, every number, ever place name ever detail is there by deliberate design. Once you discover that it changes your perspective on the integrity of book as a whole.

After that discovery? You discover the origin of that package had to come from outside our time domain.
As for the old swag - the bible is false, filled with lies, blah blah blah? Think what you want.

I chose a long time ago to take the hard route. To really kick down and read and research. Pray for the answers.

In the end? The 'BS bandwagon' you chose to stay on is easier sure - but it's going nowhere.

Me? I'm going to a place so incredible wonderful I can't even imagine no matter how hard I try.

Between now and then? Here and there? I have my Bible, a book by my side and alive in my heart that gets me from here - to there with all truth, with all grace, with all mercy and all love.

peace

a reply to: TzarChasm

...he may have suggested to his friends that the kid would be fine,

No, he told them 'we' will be coming back. Not me, or I, WE.

but thats speculation considering no one knows the mind of god.

Yes we can, and do. God shows us all the time what His will is and what's in His mind.

He told Abraham the future for Isaac. It was enough for Abraham.

according to the official narrative anyway. anyone willing to kill family for their deity ought to seriously reconsider their faith. thats the kind of faith that corrupts you.

God would never ask us to sin. He can't. Another reason why Abraham knew some divine intervention of some kind would turn the situation around.

peace

originally posted by: Look2theSacredHeart
a reply to: DiaJax

How are these plot holes? They seem like twists to me.

A plot hole would be if Lucifer rebelled, and then we never heard of him again till he was suddenly a good guy again.

I always figured he rebelled in the stories because he was the good guy.

originally posted by: silo13
a reply to: TzarChasm

...he may have suggested to his friends that the kid would be fine,

No, he told them 'we' will be coming back. Not me, or I, WE.

but thats speculation considering no one knows the mind of god.

Yes we can, and do. God shows us all the time what His will is and what's in His mind.

He told Abraham the future for Isaac. It was enough for Abraham.

according to the official narrative anyway. anyone willing to kill family for their deity ought to seriously reconsider their faith. thats the kind of faith that corrupts you.

God would never ask us to sin. He can't. Another reason why Abraham knew some divine intervention of some kind would turn the situation around.

peace

If you are saying that abraham wasn't actually willing to kill isaac, then doesn't it negate most of the point of the old testament. Pretty much all god does is point out all of the people he wants dead.

a reply to: silo13

Hi hi - I've been concentrating on another conversation. I'm not ignoring you.

On the contrary, it was I who owed you a reply. But I have been busy doing things in the real world.

If that were the case then why are there billions of Christians? New ones every day.

Perhaps other apologists for Christianity have something other than just the Bible to fall back on. I was speaking specifically of you, and of others like you who think that the Bible and their chosen brand of Christian dogma are self-confirming.

You choose your book, I choose mine.

You choose your book. I choose the library.

Me? I'm going to a place so incredible wonderful I can't even imagine no matter how hard I try.

Don’t forget to send me a postcard.

originally posted by: silo13
a reply to: TzarChasm

...he may have suggested to his friends that the kid would be fine,

No, he told them 'we' will be coming back. Not me, or I, WE.

but thats speculation considering no one knows the mind of god.

Yes we can, and do. God shows us all the time what His will is and what's in His mind.

He told Abraham the future for Isaac. It was enough for Abraham.

according to the official narrative anyway. anyone willing to kill family for their deity ought to seriously reconsider their faith. thats the kind of faith that corrupts you.

God would never ask us to sin. He can't. Another reason why Abraham knew some divine intervention of some kind would turn the situation around.

peace

but clearly god can be disingenuous. which is to say he can convince you of a total lie by speaking a perfect truth. as i said before, lucifer didnt just magically transform into a deceiver. he learned from the best. did god not tell adam and eve that by eating the apple, they would die? not a lie...but not the whole truth. just enough to misrepresent the truth and make them dismiss it. the snake was the patsy for the real deceiver.

a reply to: TzarChasm

i promise you that god is not the only place you can get those things.

I promise you, you’re wrong.

there are other ways that dont require you to sell your soul or condemn your nature as a human being.

I’m not required to sell my soul. Without Christ the future of my soul is condemned for all eternity. So I really don’t want that soul. I want the soul baptized with the grace of God.

Condemning human nature? Are you speaking of subjective morality? We each decide what’s right for us? Oh please. What a crock. That just shows how you’ve not thought that through. I mean - you lock your door at night? Then you’re afraid of subjective morality. If morality is subjective then someone might decide it’s moral to come in and kill you. You can’t have subjective morality. There are some things that are right, and some that are wrong. No subjective about it.

it might be a little harder doing it the organic way, but nothing worth doing is ever easy. and it becomes yours. not a gift, not a favor bestowed from on high, but a product of your own making that you keep until you no longer need it. the beauty of human craftmanship as opposed to supernatural bargains.

At the risk of sounding stupid? I have no idea what you’re talking about.

Whatever it is - it can’t give me TRUE love. It can’t give me eternity.

it is ironic that they use the parable of jesus and lucifer to warn people against making deals with the devil...just to turn around and offer you a deal with the guy who literally invented the father of lies. where do you think lucifer learned it from? he just magically became a deceiver? plot hole, check.

Angels had free will also. Satan wanted God’s position as all high, all being, etc. He chose to try and take over God’s position in the heavens and got kicked down to this world like a lightening bolt with a third of his filthy angels.

God cannot lie. You can say whatever you want - He can’t.

all of his otherworldly gifts come from one place. just like yours. might want to check that package for strings.

Not sure what the first part of this means.

Strings? Yes. I’m bound by a supernatural string tied tight to my heart beneath my breast bone. It cannot be broken. It tethers me to the greatest love that ever has been or will be.

For no price. It’s a gift.

peace

a reply to: TzarChasm

but clearly god can be disingenuous. which is to say he can convince you of a total lie by speaking a perfect truth.

Nope.

as i said before, lucifer didnt just magically transform into a deceiver.

Yes he did. His egotism went to his head and that was that.

he learned from the best.

LOL! Oh I seeeeee so God was up there before the beginning of man giving lying lessons to lucifer? Oh man, lol.

did god not tell adam and eve that by eating the apple, they would die? not a lie...but not the whole truth. just enough to misrepresent the truth and make them dismiss it. the snake was the patsy for the real deceiver.

God told the truth. When Adam and Eve ate the fruit - they were spiritually dead. Spiritual death is everlasting death. You can die as a Christian and be alive forever. Your spirit is dead? No deader can you get than that.

The snake forgot to tell Eve that. He told her she would be like God, but her soul would be dead forever in sin. NO way around that kind of death without Christ.

peace

a reply to: Woodcarver

If you are saying that abraham wasn't actually willing to kill isaac

You must have missed where I've posted (repeatedly) Abraham would do anything he was told without a hitch.

WHY? Abraham knew God was the one with the problem on His hands now, not himself.

Abraham knew God promised Isaac's seed would become nations. God does not lie. Isaac can't have offspring is he's dead.

So, Abraham knew God would somehow have to keep His promise.

Abraham would do his part knowing God would do His.

peace

a reply to: Astyanax

Perhaps other apologists for Christianity have something other than just the Bible to fall back on.

That has nothing to do with what you said.

You stated Christians are ‘doomed’ (lol) to preaching the word to ourselves.

Negated by the fact there are billions of Christians and more and more every day.

I was speaking specifically of you, and of others like you who think that the Bible and their chosen brand of Christian dogma are self-confirming.

God confirms it. It’s all I need to know.

Don’t forget to send me a postcard.

It really makes my skin crawl when people are flippant. It’s just so sad. Man, you‘re playing with fire. Scary stuff that because I can assure you - where you’re going you don’t get mail.

You have time to change that though. Probably not long, but you do.

peace

Added note: If you intend to keep on with the glib and flip - don’t bother replying. Pears and swine and all that. Prayers your eyes are opened man. For real.

a reply to: DiaJax

By the way - I flung myself into this thread without thanking you for hosting it.

Thank you.

For my answer? In a nutshell? It's my belief the bible causes questions for one reason - the more you question the more is revealed.



peace

a reply to: silo13

I’m not required to sell my soul. Without Christ the future of my soul is condemned for all eternity. So I really don’t want that soul. I want the soul baptized with the grace of God.

Condemning human nature? Are you speaking of subjective morality? We each decide what’s right for us? Oh please. What a crock. That just shows how you’ve not thought that through. I mean - you lock your door at night? Then you’re afraid of subjective morality. If morality is subjective then someone might decide it’s moral to come in and kill you. You can’t have subjective morality. There are some things that are right, and some that are wrong. No subjective about it.

that has nothing to do with what i said. i never mentioned any subjective morality. i said you dont have to sell your soul. and of course you denied having done so, but that is the purpose of baptism. it is you entering a bargain with a supernatural power. you call the power, you invite it in, and you surrender yourself to it. soul = sold.

At the risk of sounding stupid? I have no idea what you’re talking about.

Whatever it is - it can’t give me TRUE love. It can’t give me eternity.

im sure you dont understand. the best things in life are those which dont last forever. those things that last forever...they are fake. illusions. a plastic flower will last for decades but will never smell as sweet or feel as soft as the rose that dies in a month. eternity is an illusion of longevity in much the same way. but in the end, it will feel just as dusty and pale as a plastic flower sitting too long in the attic. true love and eternity are poetic exaggerations for snaring the mind and teasing the imagination, giving us comically bloated versions of what we enjoy in this life. dont get greedy when you still have time to make the most of what you have right now.

Angels had free will also. Satan wanted God’s position as all high, all being, etc. He chose to try and take over God’s position in the heavens and got kicked down to this world like a lightening bolt with a third of his filthy angels.

God cannot lie. You can say whatever you want - He can’t.

im telling you, lucifer got it from somewhere. and the bible is full of examples where god can tell just the right portion of truth to guarantee someone believes a lie. he doesnt lie, not technically. but by the official narrative, he is a masterful deceiver and manipulator. he is so very faerie like in that way. i wonder what happens when the master betrays the apprentice? is there any classical literature to draw from? it would make for fascinating comparison. must have been one hell of a falling out if he damned a third of his royal army because of it. no explanation or story, just a glib one liner that discourages too much inquiry. i wonder where the truthers are on that one.

Not sure what the first part of this means.

Strings? Yes. I’m bound by a supernatural string tied tight to my heart beneath my breast bone. It cannot be broken. It tethers me to the greatest love that ever has been or will be.

For no price. It’s a gift.

every quality and every power that lucifer has, came from one place. the father of the father of lies. the grandfather of lies. the godfather, if you will.

and i already told you...your baptism was the ritual, your so called salvation was the bargain, and your soul is the price. there are harder but more down to earth ways of getting it done without owing a debt to a supernatural overlord, but you have made your choice. im just contributing to the rundown of plot holes as the title of this thread says.

a reply to: silo13



So that's a no on admitting you were wrong even though I proved it "Chapter and verse?"

Silence is just as good.

originally posted by: silo13
a reply to: Woodcarver

If you are saying that abraham wasn't actually willing to kill isaac

You must have missed where I've posted (repeatedly) Abraham would do anything he was told without a hitch.

WHY? Abraham knew God was the one with the problem on His hands now, not himself.

Abraham knew God promised Isaac's seed would become nations. God does not lie. Isaac can't have offspring is he's dead.

So, Abraham knew God would somehow have to keep His promise.

Abraham would do his part knowing God would do His.

peace

You also claimed Abraham had foreknowledge that he was being tested (pbuh).

Are you taking it back, retracting?

You need to fess up to the fact that the age of Isaac at the time he goes through the sacrifice ordeal isn't given in the Torah and you said because some guy from some link said he was 30, he WAS, 30.

My advice is do your own reading of the Bible instead of having people read it for you and tell you things which will be their opinions but you will never be told that.

People, Xtians really only want Isaac to have been 30 so they can say, " It's predicting Jesus pbuh and his "sacrifice for our sins."

Why?

Because it's a Paulinist teaching that Christ would have no part of and was adamant that the Law was to be obeyed so much so he insisted that all it took was FIRST AND FOREMOST Love God and second love your neighbor as yourself.

Re: So called justification by vicarious atonement, or non works based, no good deeds theory of faith ALONE salvation.

Jesus taught the opposite and requires righteousness which Paul denies the existence of even though Jesus pbuh says at least 2 people are Righteous and James the Just is Zaddik in Hebrew meaning "Righteous One."

It's a sly dig at the Righteous One who responded:


"Senseless man! Do you need to be informed that faith apart from works is dead?"

And even used the example used in Romans about Abraham pbuh to refute Paul's very crux example.

a reply to: silo13

Thanks for coming.

I enjoy when people really flesh out there thoughts regardless whether I agree with them or not. Religion is a great topic for that.

Most people have more knowledge then I do on this subject part of the reason why I created the thread. Learn how people see it from their perspective and I've learned a little on the way as well. Although I don't think I have had the Jewish perspective on this.

Is questioning holy books Blasphemy?

Was it Jesus that broke Monotheism into three (Quran, Torah, Bible)?

There will never be a shortage of questions

that has nothing to do with what i said. i never mentioned any subjective morality. i said you dont have to sell your soul. and of course you denied having done so, but that is the purpose of baptism. it is you entering a bargain with a supernatural power. you call the power, you invite it in, and you surrender yourself to it. soul = sold.

I never really thought about it that way.

Makes for an interesting storyline. God has a monopoly on the soul market on earth. Although Lucifer a junior soul market entrepreneur is trying to break into the bussiness with little success. Having mentored under God he learned the ropes quickly and was a prize pupil. When Lucifer said he was going out on his own God became furious, Lucifer was his best soul earner. Ever since then there has been a non stop advertising campaign to stop Lucifer from robbing God of his soul profits. Lucifer tenacious as ever hasn't given up he has devised a contract that will help him get back in the game.
This is where our story begins.

originally posted by: DiaJax

that has nothing to do with what i said. i never mentioned any subjective morality. i said you dont have to sell your soul. and of course you denied having done so, but that is the purpose of baptism. it is you entering a bargain with a supernatural power. you call the power, you invite it in, and you surrender yourself to it. soul = sold.

I never really thought about it that way.

Makes for an interesting storyline. God has a monopoly on the soul market on earth. Although Lucifer a junior soul market entrepreneur is trying to break into the bussiness with little success. Having mentored under God he learned the ropes quickly and was a prize pupil. When Lucifer said he was going out on his own God became furious, Lucifer was his best soul earner. Ever since then there has been a none stop advertising campaign to stop Lucifer from robbing God of his soul profits. Lucifer tenacious as ever hasn't given up he has devised a contract that will help him get back in the game.
This is where our story begins.

Lmfao I wasn't going that far but I like the cut of your jib.