Paris mayor calls for ban on black feminist festival

originally posted by: uncommitted
a reply to: UKTruth

Please see my response to paraphi where I acknowledged my mistake. This is also prioritising seating based on gender - why aren't you equally aghast that such a thing could happen?

Both are wrong. The only priorities should be for disabled and also women with children.

This particular event just gets everything wrong. A discriminatory system put in place where top priority is awarded to black people who are women, second place goes to black men and then 3rd for everyone else. That is quite simply wrong, on many levels.

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: CulturalResilience
Women only train carriages are fine by me. Can we have men only ones that are free from inane yak and whinging?
a reply to: uncommitted

Well, that wasn't a sexist response was it? Are you seriously suggesting men don't indulge in inane yak and whinging? You must travel on very different trains to me.

I've got no particular issue with women only carriages, although I find it distasteful that women are only safe when with other women. I'd also find it a mite frustrating if the women only carriage was the only one that had any space left on the last train home.

Get a sense of humour sweetie.

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: uncommitted
a reply to: UKTruth

Please see my response to paraphi where I acknowledged my mistake. This is also prioritising seating based on gender - why aren't you equally aghast that such a thing could happen?

Both are wrong. The only priorities should be for disabled and also women with children.

This particular event just gets everything wrong. A discriminatory system put in place where top priority is awarded to black people who are women, second place goes to black men and then 3rd for everyone else. That is quite simply wrong, on many levels.

I could be more outraged. You know why? Yesterday I watched 8 days a week, a documentary about the Beatles' touring years. They refused to play in front of a segregated audience in Jacksonville, North America. There was a shot of the doors to public toilets, presumably at the concert site (which gave in and allowed races to mix, but it was certainly an exception at the time), three doors - male, female, coloured. That was I believe in 1965, I don't know when such segregation stopped, presumably a little later in the decade. In Britain even in the '70's bed and breakfast establishments had the old 'no Irish, no blacks, no dogs' signs in the window, albeit this was flouting the discrimination act. 'White Australia' was only officially stopped as a government policy in Australia in the '70's, and well, we all know about apartheid.

These are all within my lifetime (just about, 1965 was a couple of years too early) and leave me a lot colder as they are more representative of the majority wanting to discriminate. Seeing as I'm not totally aware of what the content of this festival will cover, I'm not too worked up. If the content is primarily around issues that face black women in Africa, or black women in France expressed either through speech or song, then it's not unreasonable that the people running the festival would want to allow black women the best opportunity to attend, and therefore the largest allocation of spaces. Where it becomes unreasonable is to restrict access to others. Having said that, if the 'others' were agitators there to cause trouble, then I find it reasonable.

originally posted by: CulturalResilience

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: CulturalResilience
Women only train carriages are fine by me. Can we have men only ones that are free from inane yak and whinging?
a reply to: uncommitted

Well, that wasn't a sexist response was it? Are you seriously suggesting men don't indulge in inane yak and whinging? You must travel on very different trains to me.

I've got no particular issue with women only carriages, although I find it distasteful that women are only safe when with other women. I'd also find it a mite frustrating if the women only carriage was the only one that had any space left on the last train home.

Get a sense of humour sweetie.

I've got one, it only kicks in when something funny is said though.

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: uncommitted
a reply to: UKTruth

Please see my response to paraphi where I acknowledged my mistake. This is also prioritising seating based on gender - why aren't you equally aghast that such a thing could happen?

Both are wrong. The only priorities should be for disabled and also women with children.

This particular event just gets everything wrong. A discriminatory system put in place where top priority is awarded to black people who are women, second place goes to black men and then 3rd for everyone else. That is quite simply wrong, on many levels.

I could be more outraged. You know why? Yesterday I watched 8 days a week, a documentary about the Beatles' touring years. They refused to play in front of a segregated audience in Jacksonville, North America. There was a shot of the doors to public toilets, presumably at the concert site (which gave in and allowed races to mix, but it was certainly an exception at the time), three doors - male, female, coloured. That was I believe in 1965, I don't know when such segregation stopped, presumably a little later in the decade. In Britain even in the '70's bed and breakfast establishments had the old 'no Irish, no blacks, no dogs' signs in the window, albeit this was flouting the discrimination act. 'White Australia' was only officially stopped as a government policy in Australia in the '70's, and well, we all know about apartheid.

These are all within my lifetime (just about, 1965 was a couple of years too early) and leave me a lot colder as they are more representative of the majority wanting to discriminate. Seeing as I'm not totally aware of what the content of this festival will cover, I'm not too worked up. If the content is primarily around issues that face black women in Africa, or black women in France expressed either through speech or song, then it's not unreasonable that the people running the festival would want to allow black women the best opportunity to attend, and therefore the largest allocation of spaces. Where it becomes unreasonable is to restrict access to others. Having said that, if the 'others' were agitators there to cause trouble, then I find it reasonable.

It's the same deal. If you were offended by what you saw on TV from the 60's/70's then there should be no difference now.
If you can hand on heart say it would ok for white men to have a special area taking up 80% of the facilities in an event today, with white women segregated into a second area and third space for non whites, then you will at least get some credit for consistency, even though you'd still be wrong.

a reply to: UKTruth

It's the same deal. If you were offended by what you saw on TV from the 60's/70's then there should be no difference now.
If you can hand on heart say it would ok for white men to have a special area taking up 80% of the facilities in an event today, with white women segregated into a second area and third space for non whites, then you will at least get some credit for consistency, even though you'd still be wrong.

It's nowhere near the same deal. This is a private event where the organisers could if they wanted tried to prioritise selling tickets only to black women, or white men, or disabled gay Muslim Portuguese of Chinese descent men if they wanted. I say that as an assumption because if any such thing was unlawful in France then this festival wouldn't be taking place. I don't like or agree with such a thing, but I cannot equate that with state sponsored segregation.

I agree with your general point however, and you know I don't always see eye to eye with your views, but I can't put this event into the same bracket as those I mentioned in the post you have responded to. I also think that both the mayor and the national front are hypocrites for calling this racist but ignoring its sexism - if we want to go down that road.

originally posted by: uncommitted
a reply to: UKTruth

It's the same deal. If you were offended by what you saw on TV from the 60's/70's then there should be no difference now.
If you can hand on heart say it would ok for white men to have a special area taking up 80% of the facilities in an event today, with white women segregated into a second area and third space for non whites, then you will at least get some credit for consistency, even though you'd still be wrong.

It's nowhere near the same deal. This is a private event where the organisers could if they wanted tried to prioritise selling tickets only to black women, or white men, or disabled gay Muslim Portuguese of Chinese descent men if they wanted. I say that as an assumption because if any such thing was unlawful in France then this festival wouldn't be taking place. I don't like or agree with such a thing, but I cannot equate that with state sponsored segregation.

I agree with your general point however, and you know I don't always see eye to eye with your views, but I can't put this event into the same bracket as those I mentioned in the post you have responded to. I also think that both the mayor and the national front are hypocrites for calling this racist but ignoring its sexism - if we want to go down that road.

It isn't a private event. It's a festival that they are inviting artists/exhibitors, etc. to.
It's no more a private event than a rock concert or something like a TED Talks event.

a reply to: UKTruth

Technically a rock concert is a private event as it's by ticket only. The sisterhood was a similar thing at Glastonbury - women only for a feminist section of the site - not so different really is it?

originally posted by: uncommitted
a reply to: UKTruth

Technically a rock concert is a private event as it's by ticket only. The sisterhood was a similar thing at Glastonbury - women only for a feminist section of the site - not so different really is it?

So you would be ok with whites only seating areas at a concert?

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: uncommitted
a reply to: UKTruth

Technically a rock concert is a private event as it's by ticket only. The sisterhood was a similar thing at Glastonbury - women only for a feminist section of the site - not so different really is it?

So you would be ok with whites only seating areas at a concert?

Personally? No, I would abhor any kind of segregation, I thought I had made that clear. What I would abhor even more is if the state forced white only seating..... that was my point.

If the festival this is actually about is to celebrate black feminism and its target audience is primarily (but not totally) other black feminists then I can't help but think there is a little false outrage going on here. Yes - again - I think the organisers are being quite stupid in their approach, but I wonder how many white males in France are particularly vexed at the thought they might not get a ticket as all the ones for the available section sold out so quickly.

I recall reading an article recently where this happened at a U.S. University. This "ban" on certain races is ridiculous; how can people expect to not be discriminated against when they themselves are discriminating.

~Sovereign

If, one day, you get invited to a party, you will be its life and soul.
a reply to: uncommitted

How do exclusive events like this in any way promote unity and harmony?

originally posted by: IHateLibs
How do exclusive events like this in any way promote unity and harmony?

That is the crux of the matter and perhaps the reason why the Mayor has made this challenge.

a reply to: paraphi

Surprisingly reasonable.

originally posted by: UKTruth
So you would be ok with whites only seating areas at a concert?

I think the KKK would agree.

originally posted by: CulturalResilience
If, one day, you get invited to a party, you will be its life and soul.
a reply to: uncommitted

Well I hosted one on Saturday and indeed I was. Fortunately no one was making the kind of limp jokes that you see on some sites................................

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: IHateLibs
How do exclusive events like this in any way promote unity and harmony?

That is the crux of the matter and perhaps the reason why the Mayor has made this challenge.

The mayor doesn't seem to think that the sexist side of it is worth challenging though?

originally posted by: uncommitted
The mayor doesn't seem to think that the sexist side of it is worth challenging though?

Indeed. I think women (and men) only events are not rare and possibly desirable in some cases, although not for religious reasons I hasten to add e.g. segregation of girls in schools. The mayors position was based on the fact that whites were excluded from the black-only events.